Belle Vue National Stadium

[The White Knight]

If they did "fly around europe" looking at tracks then they did a cracking job - the track is a race track 110%

Maybe because Manchester City Council was stumping up the money they ruled the roost, its a large powerful council, and maybe they were more dominant then Gordon and Morton on certain issues.Who knows.

No one knows what went on, no one on this forum anyway, so its all guess work, and in the process of guessing the reputation of innocent individuals could be tarnished.

Dead right about the Track OveFundinFan. :approve:

 

Of course.You have just made some guess work of your own which might also tarnish innocent reputations.Guess work is what makes up more than half of this forum.Thanks for the input

Plenty of maybes in OveFundinFan's Post but I don't see any tarnished reputations there iris123.

 

You are possibly right about guesswork as regards the Forum - I don't know.

[Halifaxtiger]

If the success of my business depended on a critical component such as a track, then it would be absolutely a condition of my involvement to be have the right to inspect the construction - whether myself or by a track specialist.

 

Yes, it's clear there were failures on the part of the council, but slippages are not unusual in construction projects and it's how they're dealt with.

 

If you were paying for it, absolutely. But Belle Vue weren't. As such, they probably had very little say regarding the building works and it should not be forgotten that David Gordon made it clear many times that staying at Kirky Lane was not an option, so they were over a barrel anyway.

 

I suspect the size and shape was determined by Belle Vue - and they did an excellent job - and then they left the construction to ISG and the inspection of the works to the council. You must see that it was as much in the council's interests to have the stadium fit for purpose as it was Belle Vue's - as it stands, it seems they have lost a considerable amount of revenue as a result of their failure to ensure that the job was done properly.

 

I really don't see how Belle Vue can be held culpable for the shoddy standard of workmanship here when they were neither those who had ordered the building of the stadium and were paying for it or the building contractor. It seems the courts agree : I fail to see how Gordon & Chris Morton were apparently successful in their counter litigation against the council unless that was the case.

I agree.I thought they were flying around Europe looking at tracks trying to see what they wanted for a shape and surface etc,and not just looking at Vojens covers.So why they made a detailed plan of what they wanted and then just left it to someone else is strange.Basically it all seems a bit strange from before last season

 

My suspicion is they were responsible for designing the track shape and size but that was it. After that, they had no input or influence whatsoever.

[The White Knight]

My suspicion is they were responsible for designing the track shape and size but that was it. After that, they had no input or influence whatsoever.

I think you are probably right about that HT.

[Humphrey Appleby]

If you were paying for it, absolutely. But Belle Vue weren't.

The Belle Vue promoters were putting money into a business that's 100% reliant on leased facilities. If those leased facilities needed to be constructed to a particular specification, I'd absolutely make it a condition of my lease to be able to inspect that the facilities met the necessary specification - at every stage of construction.

 

I have some sympathy for the promoters who pursued a vision, eventually made it happen, but who appear to have been let down by other parties. Unfortunately though, that's the nature of doing business and the incompetence of others can cost you dearly if you neglect the supervisory process.

 

As such, they probably had very little say regarding the building works and it should not be forgotten that David Gordon made it clear many times that staying at Kirky Lane was not an option, so they were over a barrel anyway.

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the arrangements with Quirky Lane, but the new stadium was built to a tight schedule and construction overruns and deficiencies are not unusual. I'm not sure why a provisional agreement couldn't have been made to use the old stadium, or to delay the start of the season if there were any delays in delivery.

 

You must see that it was as much in the council's interests to have the stadium fit for purpose as it was Belle Vue's - as it stands, it seems they have lost a considerable amount of revenue as a result of their failure to ensure that the job was done properly.

The bottom line is that ultimately it doesn't matter where the blame lies. Two promoters have lost their shirts as a result, the council has lost a lot of revenue, and the reputation of the new stadium has been damaged.

 

The Council should certainly be up to supervising the construction of stands and toilets, but I doubt they have any experience at all with constructing a speedway track and I absolutely wouldn't be reliant on them signing off something that important to my business.

[Ghosty]

What have we here? a lot of people with views of what actions SHOULD have taken place! I think the whole thing is a technical legal mess with solicitors rubbing their hands with glee.

 

The new Belle Vue is the best race track in the U.K. without a doubt & a must-have for a successful 2017 G.B. Premiership.

 

Speed is not what solicitors do, unless things get sorted quickly are the Aces going to be at the tapes for 2017?

[The White Knight]

What have we here? a lot of people with views of what actions SHOULD have taken place! I think the whole thing is a technical legal mess with solicitors rubbing their hands with glee.

 

The new Belle Vue is the best race track in the U.K. without a doubt & a must-have for a successful 2017 G.B. Premiership.

 

Speed is not what solicitors do, unless things get sorted quickly are the Aces going to be at the tapes for 2017?

Is there a doubt like?

 

Genuine question - you have me worried.

[Little Thumper]

Is there a doubt like?

 

Genuine question - you have me worried.

 

I think you are lapsing into Yoof Speak!

 

If you start using yeah, no and whatever then I shall get really worried.

[The White Knight]

 

I think you are lapsing into Yoof Speak!

 

If you start using yeah, no and whatever then I shall get really worried.

Whatever. :nono:

 

:rofl:

 

Nuffink rong wiv de yoof of t'day - if only you can understand what they are saying.

 

No wot ah mean Bruv.

[Little Thumper]

Whatever. :nono:

 

:rofl:

 

Nuffink rong wiv de yoof of t'day - if only you can understand what they are saying.

 

No wot ah mean Bruv.

 

[Daniel Smith]

Whatever. :nono:

 

:rofl:

 

Nuffink rong wiv de yoof of t'day - if only you can understand what they are saying.

 

No wot ah mean Bruv.

 

Nang bruv

 

Datz sick blud foshizzle

[waytogo28]

So the critics of the forums are quite right - a frank and honest exchange of differing opinions is not possible without some of the posters reverting to mindless, moronic levels of exchanges , nothing to do with the subject. How sad.

[Tsunami]

While they were responsible for the meeting going ahead it was what any other promoter would have done, in fact promoters run meetings all the time on tracks with problems, don't they? Besides, if you walk in and find a hole or a crack or a soft patch you don't call the meeting off you fix it and don't expect it to come back.

 

I thought we had seen a watershed moment at Belle Vue in March last year. A rider wasn't happy with a less than perfect track and got the meeting called off on the grounds that the track was only rideable and not raceable. The Belle Vue management came out in full view and accepted the decision and publicly backed the rider.

 

Within a few weeks meetings went ahead at Swindon and Coventry on significantly worse tracks than Belle Vue with riders falling off all over the place and some tracks are just 'dangerous' anyway with more fallers in one average el meeting than all the el meetings added together all season at Belle Vue!

Hardly the version I have heard of the activities a week before the meeting. This didn't happen overnight.

[Little Thumper]

HOPEFULLY in SS shortly when we know that the future of speedway at the NSS is assured, which hopefully won't be very long now.

 

PHILIPRISING, in the light of recent developments are you - as confident, less confident or more confident that the future of speedway at the the Belle Vue Arena is assured?

 

You hinted that all will be settled shortly.

Are you able to say whether this will be days or weeks?

 

Thanks

Edited January 8, 2017 by Little Thumper

[PHILIPRISING]

 

PHILIPRISING, in the light of recent developments are you - as confident, less confident or more confident that the future of speedway at the the Belle Vue Arena is assured?

 

You hinted that all will be settled shortly.

Are you able to say whether this will be days or weeks?

 

Thanks

 

It wasn't meant to be a version of activities?

 

As you've gone to the trouble of picking out a specific point why don't you tell us what actually were the activities a week before the meeting? I was there myself a week before and was surprised at how much was still to do, I even passed comment on here about the state of the track, which I later admitted helped or even started the 'track not ready' rumours.

 

I hope you don't spread hearsay on message boards as fact. Here's an example of where a jokey comment on a message board can go.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ravanelli-in-county-frame-922976

LET'S say I am optimistic although last week it did appear that Pairman was in the driving seat and that given this business background (chartered accountant etc) and with Chris Morton as a figurehead (not anything more) MCC did favour him.

 

The BSPA, however, were not supportive and seem to prefer an alternative solution although at the moment there is no real reason to think that will not come to fruition.

 

Frustrating, I know, but that's British speedway unfortunately.

[Little Thumper]

 

LET'S say I am optimistic although last week it did appear that Pairman was in the driving seat and that given this business background (chartered accountant etc) and with Chris Morton as a figurehead (not anything more) MCC did favour him.

 

The BSPA, however, were not supportive and seem to prefer an alternative solution although at the moment there is no real reason to think that will not come to fruition.

 

Frustrating, I know, but that's British speedway unfortunately.

 

Thank you for that PHILIPRISING.

Why do you think that the BSPA would not support a solution which comprised a financially viable and financially competent person, supported by a person who has a comprehensive knowledge of speedway and a proposal that was acceptable to the venue owners, Manchester City Council?

 

It is hard for us mere mortals to understand why the BSPA believe that some other proposal might be a better solution.

Does the alternative proposal have more money behind it or does it deliver a longer term plan?

 

I am sure that this is not the case but if speedway at Belle Vue were to be lost due to a clash of personalities or anything to do with the furtherance of personal interests, financial or otherwise, then I find it hard to believe that the speedway fan in general and the Belle Vue fan in particular would forgive the BSPA and all those involved with any such failure.

 

I note that PHILIPRISING has not stated that he is LESS optimistic, so we must maintain our faith in his judgement and continue to believe that he is correct when he says that speedway will definitely run at Belle Vue in 2017.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Little Thumper

[PHILIPRISING]

FIND it hard to believe that BSPA would effectively scupper one viable proposition unless they were certain they had another. But, then again, this is the BSPA we are talking about.

 

Not sure my optimism has anything to do with judgement only what I am to told.

 

Also pretty sure that MCC are determined to see speedway continue at the NSS. They don't want a white elephant on their hands and as it would reflect badly on them.

[Little Thumper]

FIND it hard to believe that BSPA would effectively scupper one viable proposition unless they were certain they had another. But, then again, this is the BSPA we are talking about.

 

Not sure my optimism has anything to do with judgement only what I am to told.

 

Also pretty sure that MCC are determined to see speedway continue at the NSS. They don't want a white elephant on their hands and as it would reflect badly on them.

 

Thank you for your candour, PHILIPRISING.

 

With regard to Manchester City Council, they might quite like speedway to continue at the Belle Vue Arena but when push comes to shove, the Council and more specifically the elected councillors will follow a course of action that saves their own skins.

 

If that means other parties have to be hung out to dry, then that is just unfortunate.

 

Clearly, the fate of the Belle Vue Arena will be decided by the BSPA and we must therefore put our trust in their judgement and believe that they will, in all matters, act in the best interests of British Speedway in it's entirety.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Little Thumper

[Tsunami]

It wasn't meant to be a version of activities?

 

As you've gone to the trouble of picking out a specific point why don't you tell us what actually were the activities a week before the meeting? I was there myself a week before and was surprised at how much was still to do, I even passed comment on here about the state of the track, which I later admitted helped or even started the 'track not ready' rumours.

 

I hope you don't spread hearsay on message boards as fact. Here's an example of where a jokey comment on a message board can go.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ravanelli-in-county-frame-922976

I think you have just highlighted the reason why I will not be relaying what I know of the activities the week before. As you have confirmed, this did not happen overnight.

[The White Knight]

I think you have just highlighted the reason why I will not be relaying what I know of the activities the week before. As you have confirmed, this did not happen overnight.

Perhaps it will all come out eventually.........

 

I am absolutely gutted by this debacle - I believed in this scheme for a National Speedway Stadium from the start, apart from a slight wobble when I wondered if it was ever going to happen. I think it is really sad that, whatever the causes, a superb initiative like the National Speedway Stadium has got off to just about the worst possible start that it could have done.

 

I still have hopes that things will eventually work out well for Belle Vue and it's new Stadium. My confidence, though, is at a pretty low ebb.

 

I wish the whole Project well, and my Team Belle Vue much success.

 

We shall see.

[ouch]

We'll run this year I've no doubt of that it's just the long planned for legacy is gone.

 

We are just tenants now not owners. MCC can decide if the back straight opens just at easily as when the GRA decided to knocked down the Chieftain stand. If Monsters trucks are a better option on a BH then they will run instead of us. Down the line 5, 10 or 20 years it might suit MCC to see the dog track levelled and be replaced by council tax paying homes. Belle Vue dogs and stock cars would be attractive financially as fellow tenants in the NSS (if that's still its name) so we get sidelined still further. The thing is now it's out of our hands.

 

As has happened many times over the last few decades this knee jerk reaction to have a pop at Belle Vue has long term repercussions for us and the sport in the U.K.

 

Considering it took so long to achieve it's a crying shame to see it lost over petty jealousy and envy.

 

British Speedway fuelled by .......