Belle Vue National Stadium

[foamfence]

Tenant- my co alarm keeps going off what should I do?

 

Landlord - move into this b&b, you pay the bill and keep receipts. Whatever it costs you can knock off the rent for the next few months. I'll get the money back off the gas fitter.

 

Tenant - nice one, do we need to change the tenancy agreement?

 

Landlord - nah, no need.

 

It takes a couple of months and the b&b and other receipts add up to around 9 months rent. Tenant moves back in. He's really struggled to cover the b&b cost but his landlord was so helpful he got by, just!

 

Tenant - thanks for being so helpful.

 

Landlord - no problem. I tell you what, organise a big party for your friends after it's sorted and I'll chip in £200 for booze to help it along.

 

Tenant - wow, you are a fantastic landlord.

 

The gas fitter has done loads of work for the Landlord and has several jobs lined up.

 

Landlord - right we just need to sort out this compo, I've told the tenant he doesn't need to pay rent to smooth things over so you don't get involved in court litigation, shall we call it £4500?

 

Gas fitter - bugger off you thick twart oh and I want all my outstanding bills paid now and I want paying up front for any of the jobs we are working on or we walk off the job you gormless warnker.

 

The week before the party landlord goes back to the tenant and tells him he has changed his mind and will need the rent after all, sorry. If you don't pay the rent you will be evicted, but I'll give you time to pay.

 

Tenant - what about the b&b money?

 

Landlord - that's your problem. By the way, I won't be giving you that £200 either, you'll have to get your mates to pay it.

 

Tenants - I'll have to take you to court.

 

Landlord - okay whatever.

 

The tenant has no money, the landlord knows it will take months and months before its sorted in court so he gets on with finding another tenant behind the current tenants back.

 

Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of the author's imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental

And is there any 'resemblance'?

[Halifaxtiger]

Curzon Ashton's Tameside Stadium seems to survive very well in football as a council buit and owned stadium ..and that gets crowds of 200-300 most weeks...

However they do seem to attract good sponsorship ..they have an excellent 4G football pitch attached which is booked out all the time...there are always plenty of birthday parties booked there..it's used regularly for ex players taking their UEFA coaching badges...in short it's a council owned facility that is in constant use....

But I don't think any Curzon Ashton player will earn what Mates Zagar earns !

 

The location of the Belle Vue stadium doesn't lend itself for regular functions..the area is not great..there isn't a shortage of venues for parties round Manchester ..better areas than Gorton ...loads of hotel venues in the city for weddings and receptions ..we had ours in a city centre hotel...can't see a place in Gorton competing with those..

 

Concerts are a no go...there's loads of concert venues in Manchester..and if it's an outdoor concert then it's not big enough for a top act ..there's venues every year for those acts..

 

So realistically I can't see a regular income for the stadium outside of speedway..so I'm not sure what they can do about that..

 

The schedule doesn't help...in the good old days you knew Belle Vue was Saturday night..you got into the habit of knowing that was race night...this season there were plenty of nights I didn't even realise there was a meeting..it was very random..albeit by necessity at times..but not ideal...on top of that there are lengthy gaps between meetings which cannot help with cash flow when you've got rent deadlines to meet..

 

All in all its a tricky one...I hope it survives and I'm sure a compromise with the council will be found...it does the council no favours to have a new stadium sitting unused in its area...that doesn't look good on them..so I'm sure the Aces will run and then everybody needs to pull together to try and make the thing viable...a lot of people seem to be happy if this venture fails..the I told you so brigade ...we'll if it fails then it's anot her tail in speedway coffin in this country so ALL speedway fans should be desperate for this to be a success in the long term

Curzon Ashton's Tameside Stadium seems to survive very well in football as a council buit and owned stadium ..and that gets crowds of 200-300 most weeks...

However they do seem to attract good sponsorship ..they have an excellent 4G football pitch attached which is booked out all the time...there are always plenty of birthday parties booked there..it's used regularly for ex players taking their UEFA coaching badges...in short it's a council owned facility that is in constant use....

But I don't think any Curzon Ashton player will earn what Mates Zagar earns !

 

The location of the Belle Vue stadium doesn't lend itself for regular functions..the area is not great..there isn't a shortage of venues for parties round Manchester ..better areas than Gorton ...loads of hotel venues in the city for weddings and receptions ..we had ours in a city centre hotel...can't see a place in Gorton competing with those..

 

Concerts are a no go...there's loads of concert venues in Manchester..and if it's an outdoor concert then it's not big enough for a top act ..there's venues every year for those acts..

 

So realistically I can't see a regular income for the stadium outside of speedway..so I'm not sure what they can do about that..

 

The schedule doesn't help...in the good old days you knew Belle Vue was Saturday night..you got into the habit of knowing that was race night...this season there were plenty of nights I didn't even realise there was a meeting..it was very random..albeit by necessity at times..but not ideal...on top of that there are lengthy gaps between meetings which cannot help with cash flow when you've got rent deadlines to meet..

 

All in all its a tricky one...I hope it survives and I'm sure a compromise with the council will be found...it does the council no favours to have a new stadium sitting unused in its area...that doesn't look good on them..so I'm sure the Aces will run and then everybody needs to pull together to try and make the thing viable...a lot of people seem to be happy if this venture fails..the I told you so brigade ...we'll if it fails then it's anot her tail in speedway coffin in this country so ALL speedway fans should be desperate for this to be a success in the long term

 

I went to Hever Castle recently and they were advertising weddings there. I am sure many would agree that having your big day in a 15th century castle (modernised in the early 20th century) with acres of landscaped gardens and grounds and 5 star overnight accommodation thrown in would be just about ideal. The same number also couldn't afford it.

 

As such, its a question of pricing and a recognition that there is significant competition in Manchester. NSS has the basic facilities to hold social functions, so there is no reason why they can't do that. Somerset do, and while they have less competition they also have significantly less population density.

 

Isle of Wight have made attempts to ensure that Smallbrook is used for events other than speedway, and have attracted some including one that has always been held elsewhere on the Island. Again, no reason why Belle Vue can't do the same.

 

I am certain that whoever takes over Belle Vue will be aware of the potential uses of the stadium as a whole. Indeed, my suspicion is that they will be keen to take over the stadium and get the Aces as part of the deal rather than the other way around.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Halifaxtiger

[Lord Skid]

Any chance of getting Sir Philip Green to run it, he could sell it for a pound, then the 600 million he makes out of it could be shared out amongst all the Clubs, problems solved, and we could give every Rider a pair of the SS endorsed Gerhard engines to use FOC

[Halifaxtiger]

He may not be entirely wrong.

 

That said, they did put themselves in a position by selling the opening night event almost a year ahead. It is not uncommon for construction projects to hit delays and snags, this had been experienced many a time with all of the red tape and slows on the NSS outside of the clubs control over the years. The Swindon model seems to make more sense, run in the old stadium until the new one opens, even if it is during the season. That would have meant no big gala opening (unless they held off to 2017) but it is something in hindsight which may have saved them.

 

I think he has a point too, Steve.

 

I also think its not unreasonable to expect that a building project will be completed on time and, if it isn't, that there will be a hefty penalty clause for any delay. Going on ISG's response, the council apparently didn't really care that it was late and it seems that there has been no question of legal action or compensation between the two.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I also think its not unreasonable to expect that a building project will be completed on time and, if it isn't, that there will be a hefty penalty clause for any delay.

It's also not unrealistic to expect snags, especially those projects with an optimistic timetable for completion.

 

And penalty clauses would presumably depend on what the contract price was in the first place. If you're paying a premium price then you might reasonably insist on timely delivery. If you're paying a bargain basement price, then expectations have to be managed.

[Fromafar]

OF course having to return the money was a huge blow. Having a bumper opening crowd and with it substantial revenue was vitally important for them. It was money they were never going to get again and the loss of four more home meetings, including the traditionally lucrative Good Friday fixture against Wolverhampton was another body blow.

 

It would appear that it all went pear shaped from then which is why Gordon, rightly or wrongly, lays much of the blame at the door of MCC

I think it is obvious that the Big Bumper Opening Meeting was just to try and get some money to pay off existing debts.Why would a business try to sell tickets for an Opening Meeting in a venue that still was in the process of being built 11 MONTHS before is opened.Strange decision IMO .Did they have to pay up front to get use of the venue when it opened.?

[colin wood]

I wouldn't call a track not being built to spec a snag.MCC and the contractors were responsible for delivering this on time.

[PHILIPRISING]

I wouldn't call a track not being built to spec a snag.MCC and the contractors were responsible for delivering this on time.

AND to the standard required. They got about 75 per cent right but not the other 25 per cent for reasons which we now know.

 

Obviously selling tickets for opening night well in advance was to help with cash flow but it was a never to be repeated event and one which, quite rightly, they anticipated a full-house and pre-sale of tickets was a practical idea. BV had no expectation of the track not being 100 per cent and it was only that, and not the stadium as a whole, which caused the chaos that ensued.

 

BV will argue, with justification surely, that the ramifications of that night affected on-going attendances and especially the delayed Wolverhampton fixture.

 

Whether or not BV would have escaped all the financial problems that afflicted them throughout the season had these meetings been successfully staged is a moot point.

 

Some of the early backers who came on board with considerable funds, believed to be held in an escrow account, withdrew sometime before completion and the fact that the project still moved forward was in no small part due to George Carswell and his family.

 

In reply to one of Humphrey Dumphrey's early comments, I can give no assurances that all will be fine. All I do know is that several parties are working hard and negotiating to ensure that speedway continues at the NSS.

[arthur cross]

 

In reply to one of Humphrey Dumphrey's early comments, I can give no assurances that all will be fine. All I do know is that several parties are working hard and negotiating to ensure that speedway continues at the NSS.

 

Better get used to having your own name sarcastically abused around here if you're going to start doing that to other members of this forum.

 

No wonder your journalistic credibility has been shredded by some on this forum if your true standard of debating is to resort to kindergarten name-calling when you've so little else to offer (or, more accurately, so little that you're spinelessly prepared to offer in case it rocks a boat that's barely afloat anyway rather than utterly watertight).

 

 

 

But how many times did you write (either in print or on this forum) what you were recommended to write rather than accurately reporting on the hopelessly chaotic goings-on or the increasingly inevitable crash ? !!

By the way, the silence of your reply to the above question on this same thread six days ago has been predictably and gutlessly deafening.

Edited November 14, 2016 by arthur cross

[PHILIPRISING]

 

 

Better get used to having your own name sarcastically abused around here if you're going to start doing that to other members of this forum.

 

 

IT already is ... by Humphrey

[Humphrey Appleby]

BV had no expectation of the track not being 100 per cent and it was only that, and not the stadium as a whole, which caused the chaos that ensued.

In the real world, construction projects sometimes (often?) overrun so there should always be a contingency plan. That along with ensuring one is informed about process towards delivery is just common sense and hardly being wise after the fact. Did I mention that's it's normally good practice to do acceptance tests as well?

 

Yes, the delay in delivery (of the track) was unfortunate and beyond the control of the promotion. However, trying to run the opening meeting after the warning signs from earlier in the week, and then having to abandon it with a crowd in the stadium, just massively compounded a less than ideal situation.

 

I can fully understand the pressure of getting the opening meeting on after taking the money, but equally most speedway fans are well used to meetings being postponed/cancelled and would probably have more likely to have been forgiving than as events transpired. There's only so many times people will be taken for mugs, and speedway has stretched that to breaking point down the years.

 

Some of the early backers who came on board with considerable funds, believed to be held in an escrow account, withdrew sometime before completion and the fact that the project still moved forward was in no small part due to George Carswell and his family.

And there's presumably a story there as to why those backers choose to withdraw, quite aside from the fact that I thought the point of an escrow account was to ensure obligations were met by all parties.

[arthur cross]

IT already is ... by Humphrey

 

As you've replied to one part of my previous post, are you finally going to deal with the other part of it ? !!

[Humphrey Appleby]

IT already is ... by Humphrey

I sometimes have criticisms of how the Spar reports things, although I accept a trade magazine has to tread a fine line, especially in the Belle Vue case. However, I always kept my comments non-personal until you started to directly disparage my credentials in defence of some quite indefensible reporting, which numerous others also felt was the case.

 

Well that's fine, but then it works both ways.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

 

Better get used to having your own name sarcastically abused around here if you're going to start doing that to other members of this forum.

 

No wonder your journalistic credibility has been shredded by some on this forum if your true standard of debating is to resort to kindergarten name-calling when you've so little else to offer (or, more accurately, so little that you're spinelessly prepared to offer in case it rocks a boat that's barely afloat anyway rather than utterly watertight).

 

 

By the way, the silence of your reply to the above question on this same thread six days ago has been predictably and gutlessly deafening.

 

 

In the real world, construction projects sometimes (often?) overrun so there should always be a contingency plan. That along with ensuring one is informed about process towards delivery is just common sense and hardly being wise after the fact. Did I mention that's it's normally good practice to do acceptance tests as well?

 

Yes, the delay in delivery (of the track) was unfortunate and beyond the control of the promotion. However, trying to run the opening meeting after the warning signs from earlier in the week, and then having to abandon it with a crowd in the stadium, just massively compounded a less than ideal situation.

 

I can fully understand the pressure of getting the opening meeting on after taking the money, but equally most speedway fans are well used to meetings being postponed/cancelled and would probably have more likely to have been forgiving than as events transpired. There's only so many times people will be taken for mugs, and speedway has stretched that to breaking point down the years.

 

 

And there's presumably a story there as to why those backers choose to withdraw, quite aside from the fact that I thought the point of an escrow account was to ensure obligations were met by all parties.

 

 

 

Better get used to having your own name sarcastically abused around here if you're going to start doing that to other members of this forum.

 

No wonder your journalistic credibility has been shredded by some on this forum if your true standard of debating is to resort to kindergarten name-calling when you've so little else to offer (or, more accurately, so little that you're spinelessly prepared to offer in case it rocks a boat that's barely afloat anyway rather than utterly watertight).

 

 

By the way, the silence of your reply to the above question on this same thread six days ago has been predictably and gutlessly deafening.

 

 

 

Yes, the delay in delivery (of the track) was unfortunate and beyond the control of the promotion. However, trying to run the opening meeting after the warning signs from earlier in the week, and then having to abandon it with a crowd in the stadium, just massively compounded a less than ideal situation.

 

I can fully understand the pressure of getting the opening meeting on after taking the money, but equally most speedway fans are well used to meetings being postponed/cancelled and would probably have more likely to have been forgiving than as events transpired. There's only so many times people will be taken for mugs, and speedway has stretched that to breaking point down the years.

 

 

And there's presumably a story there as to why those backers choose to withdraw, quite aside from the fact that I thought the point of an escrow account was to ensure obligations were met by all parties.

AGREE that they should not have run the meeting after being warned that the track would not hold up. But I do believe messrs Gordon and Morton (especially the latter, who should know about these things) thought that it would be all right on the night. Sadly they were mistaken.

 

That was the point of the escrow account as far as we can ascertain but a combination of delays to the final construction and the backers wanting more control than DG and CM were prepared to relinquish resulted in them being handed their money back, which is when George Carswell and his family stepped into the breach.

 

In reply to Arthur Cross and his post of Nov 8 which I actually didn't see, the answer is none.

[arthur cross]

 

In reply to Arthur Cross and his post of Nov 8 which I actually didn't see, the answer is none.

 

Thank you for that answer which I shall keep in mind for any future reference.

[PHILIPRISING]

I sometimes have criticisms of how the Spar reports things, although I accept a trade magazine has to tread a fine line, especially in the Belle Vue case. However, I always kept my comments non-personal until you started to directly disparage my credentials in defence of some quite indefensible reporting, which numerous others also felt was the case.

 

Well that's fine, but then it works both ways.

BUT at least I put my own name forward to be ridiculed.

[The White Knight]

BUT at least I put my own name forward to be ridiculed.

Fair point Philip.

[Humphrey Appleby]

BUT at least I put my own name forward to be ridiculed.

There are reasons why people chose pseudonyms, not least because unfortunately there are a few people who can't discuss things nicely and start making personal threats.

Fair point Philip.

Is your first name 'The' or 'White', or is 'White Knight' a double-barrelled surname?

[moxey63]

This forum reminds me a little of the Monty Python sketch, "I Wish To Start An Argument."

[The White Knight]

There are reasons why people chose pseudonyms, not least because unfortunately there are a few people who can't discuss things nicely and start making personal threats.

 

Is your first name 'The' or 'White', or is 'White Knight' a double-barrelled surname?

No - but I am not calling anyone names.