Belle Vue National Stadium

[SCB]

AND who paid for them?

 

NSS is best speedway stadium in the UK, let's be content with that, and while never sustainable on just speedway gate revenue alone, with other usage and some decent sponsorship and proper management can still be a viable proposition. MCC must think so otherwise they wouldn't be pulling out all the stops for speedway to continue there.

Keep repeating it and it might eventually come true. But while Brandon exists it's better. For a start everyone can park in the car park, unlike the NSS were it's chaos. It's good, it's certainly the best of the "new" stadium (anything built in the last 30 years) but I'd say Brandon is still better.

 

I like the NSS, I think it's brilliant but you're waxing lyrical about it is a bit OTT, especial as it was the council who built it, the council who paid for it and Morton and Gordon were the tenants who have run off with all the money!

Edited November 11, 2016 by SCB

[Starman2006]

Keep repeating it and it might eventually come true. But while Brandon exists it's better. For a start everyone can park in the car park, unlike the NSS were it's chaos. It's good, it's certainly the best of the "new" stadium (anything built in the last 30 years) but I'd say Brandon is still better.

 

 

Stadium wise yes, trackwise no.

[Halifaxtiger]

The stadium is good by speedway standards, but that's pointless if it's financial unviable. Even worse is if bills go unpaid, as no local authority will ever be persuaded to trust the sport again, and may simply just convert the whole thing into a hockey stadium or whatever.

 

After your previous assurances about the financial viability, you're now saying that it can't survive on speedway alone. Well maybe not, but how many women would really want their wedding at a speedway track? Wouldn't be relying on that a business plan.

 

Of course MCC are pulling out all the stops. They've shelled out a lot of cash and want to recoup it.

 

You haven't been there, Humph ! No-one who has would describe NSS as 'good' .

 

Its questionable whether NSS is viable based upon speedway income alone but surely the point is that possessing such a facility you don't just use it for that but pursue every possible means of revenue that it can generate.

 

I know Isle of Wight have done precisely that with Smallbrook since the new promotion came in last winter and Somerset use their clubhouse for weddings etc. They also use their car park for boot sales, agricultural machinery auctions and other events.

 

I repeat Ian Thomas' advice to Newport's Tim Stone : You don't own a corner shop and open it once a week.

[Little Thumper]

 

It's already been pointed out that the money can be shared around with the other operators, this doesn't necessarily mean they can't hold the vast majority of prestige meetings at Belle Vue, as others have said why not use the best venue available as long as the impact on other potentially viable tracks is minimised, seems fair to me.

nw42, it would be absolutely smashing if we could have lots of big meetings at our nice shiny National Speedway Stadium and other clubs would be really happy because they would all get a cut of the profits.

 

Perhaps you would clarify a couple of points for me?

Who exactly would determine how much everybody's share would be and who would make sure that everybody got exactly what they were entitled to?

 

And what if I lived nowhere near Manchester but would like to see big meetings from time to time?

Would I just have to resign myself to reading about it in Speedway Star?

[Halifaxtiger]

Keep repeating it and it might eventually come true. But while Brandon exists it's better. For a start everyone can park in the car park, unlike the NSS were it's chaos. It's good, it's certainly the best of the "new" stadium (anything built in the last 30 years) but I'd say Brandon is still better.

 

I like the NSS, I think it's brilliant but you're waxing lyrical about it is a bit OTT, especial as it was the council who built it, the council who paid for it and Morton and Gordon were the landlord who have run off with all the money!

 

My opinion against yours but never in this world.

 

At the end of the season, Belle Vue showed it has a world class racing track. I have never seen a meeting at Coventry that even comes anywhere near close.

 

NSS is brand new and you can tell. Coventry has been around for decades and you can tell that too.

[SCB]

 

My opinion against yours but never in this world.

 

At the end of the season, Belle Vue showed it has a world class racing track. I have never seen a meeting at Coventry that even comes anywhere near close.

 

NSS is brand new and you can tell. Coventry has been around for decades and you can tell that too.

Track maybe but stadium wise? Ive never know there be such long queue for the toilets at Brandon that people have to take a slash up against the fence as was happening at the SWC in the NSS.

 

Or what about wanting a beer? Lukewarm at best, warm at worst at the NSS. Always cold at Brandon. Amazingly the food is better at Brandon too and it's crap at Brandon. The NSS is impressive but I'm not buy this, "the best"

[Little Thumper]

 

Its questionable whether NSS is viable based upon speedway income alone but surely the point is that possessing such a facility you don't just use it for that but pursue every possible means of revenue that it can generate.

 

 

We are all agreed that nobody in their right mind would want to get married there, businesses have shown no interest in having bonding and team-building sessions there, nobody is going to be having their birthday party there and pop groups and beat combos aren't forming a queue to stage performances there.

 

Nobody is going to pay more than £5 to play with their balls on the centre grass and the Council's rules, regulations and restrictions will put a stop to many activities before they even get off the clip board.

 

So, Halifaxtiger, can you suggest any other revenue streams that should be investigated?

 

And let's not forget that the venue is in Gorton which I am sure is an area that many may find appealing but personally, it is not a location that would attract me to visit whatever the activity that was being offered!

[Halifaxtiger]

nw42, it would be absolutely smashing if we could have lots of big meetings at our nice shiny National Speedway Stadium and other clubs would be really happy because they would all get a cut of the profits.

 

Perhaps you would clarify a couple of points for me?

Who exactly would determine how much everybody's share would be and who would make sure that everybody got exactly what they were entitled to?

 

And what if I lived nowhere near Manchester but would like to see big meetings from time to time?

Would I just have to resign myself to reading about it in Speedway Star?

 

As I have said, I think they are all happy.

 

Manchester is just over 200 miles from Glasgow and just under 200 from Rye House or Somerset. For the speedway fan, its the most centrally located in the country.

 

Track maybe but stadium wise? Ive never know there be such long queue for the toilets at Brandon that people have to take a slash up against the fence as was happening at the SWC in the NSS.

 

Or what about wanting a beer? Lukewarm at best, warm at worst at the NSS. Always cold at Brandon. Amazingly the food is better at Brandon too and it's crap at Brandon. The NSS is impressive but I'm not buy this, "the best"

 

When's the last time they had a 4,000 crowd at Brandon ?

 

The toilets are Brandon aren't exactly the last word - at least Belle Vue's are new. You also don't risk fracturing something on the broken and cracked terracing.

 

The simple truth is for speedway the track is equally as important as the stadium. If the track is crap, you might as well have it in a field - ask anyone who has been to Leicester about that one.

[Starman2006]

 

As I have said, I think they are all happy.

 

Manchester is just over 200 miles from Glasgow and just under 200 from Rye House or Somerset. For the speedway fan, its the most centrally located in the country.

 

 

Rubbish, is it hell.

[Halifaxtiger]

 

We are all agreed that nobody in their right mind would want to get married there, businesses have shown no interest in having bonding and team-building sessions there, nobody is going to be having their birthday party there and pop groups and beat combos aren't forming a queue to stage performances there.

 

Nobody is going to pay more than £5 to play with their balls on the centre grass and the Council's rules, regulations and restrictions will put a stop to many activities before they even get off the clip board.

 

So, Halifaxtiger, can you suggest any other revenue streams that should be investigated?

 

And let's not forget that the venue is in Gorton which I am sure is an area that many may find appealing but personally, it is not a location that would attract me to visit whatever the activity that was being offered!

 

Won't they ?

 

This is taken from the Oak Tree Arena website (the facility is, of course, within the stadium at Somerset and is indeed right next to the track).

 

http://www.oaktreearena.com/weddings.html

 

According to Phil the Ace, they have indeed held pop concerts (of a kind) there. Isle of Wight have marketed training days, a pop concert, a firework display and (if memory serves me correctly) a motorbike show. No reason why Belle Vue can't do the same, and Isle of Wight don't have a brand new sports pitch right in the middle.

 

I'd be the first to admit that Gorton isn't exactly the most salubrious place I have ever been. But, if truth were told, nor is Wembley.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Halifaxtiger

[nw42]

nw42, it would be absolutely smashing if we could have lots of big meetings at our nice shiny National Speedway Stadium and other clubs would be really happy because they would all get a cut of the profits.

 

Perhaps you would clarify a couple of points for me?

Who exactly would determine how much everybody's share would be and who would make sure that everybody got exactly what they were entitled to?

 

And what if I lived nowhere near Manchester but would like to see big meetings from time to time?

Would I just have to resign myself to reading about it in Speedway Star?

 

Obviously I can't confirm any figures regarding how the money is divvied up from such meetings but, as Halifax Tiger has pointed out, the current arrangement must suit all as there don't appear to be any complaints.

 

If you lived nowhere near Manchester then you would have to make a decision as to whether or not you were prepared to travel for a big meeting, just like everyone did when the BLRC was staged @ Hyde Rd. Let's have it right, there isn't another track/stadium combo in the country to touch what has been laid on in Manchester, SCB can have his digs about queues, toilets, food etc but I'm sure he is referring to the part of the stadium that was temporarily utilised for the World Cup, his complaints are never going to typify the general consensus.

 

 

We are all agreed that nobody in their right mind would want to get married there, businesses have shown no interest in having bonding and team-building sessions there, nobody is going to be having their birthday party there and pop groups and beat combos aren't forming a queue to stage performances there.

 

Nobody is going to pay more than £5 to play with their balls on the centre grass and the Council's rules, regulations and restrictions will put a stop to many activities before they even get off the clip board.

 

So, Halifaxtiger, can you suggest any other revenue streams that should be investigated?

 

And let's not forget that the venue is in Gorton which I am sure is an area that many may find appealing but personally, it is not a location that would attract me to visit whatever the activity that was being offered!

 

As for weddings etc, I think it was Phil the ace who said there have been some functions held there since it opened, also I don't see the problem with them attracting wedding receptions, birthdays etc but most wedding reception venues are booked at least 12 months in advance and nobody would take a chance on booking when the place was a building site. The lounge will make a decent venue for all sorts of corporate gatherings but again this takes time and proper marketing.

 

So you've exhausted all your other negative aspects and decide to denigrate the locality, it's just as well Sheikh Mansour didn't adopt that attitude.

 

edit, apologies HT, you type much faster than me and had already covered my points.

Edited November 5, 2016 by nw42

[Little Thumper]

 

Won't they ?

 

This is taken from the Oak Tree Arena website (the facility is, of course, within the stadium at Somerset and is indeed right next to the track).

 

http://www.oaktreearena.com/weddings.html

 

According to Phil the Ace, they have indeed held pop concerts (of a kind) there. Isle of Wight have marketed training days, a pop concert, a firework display and (if memory serves me correctly) a motorbike show. No reason why Belle Vue can't do the same, and Isle of Wight don't have a brand new sports pitch right in the middle.

 

I'd be the first to admit that Gorton isn't exactly the most salubrious place I have ever been. But, if truth were told, nor is Wembley.

 

Halifaxtiger, I admire your tenacity!

 

I feel confident in saying that the chances of sane people wanting to have their wedding ceremony at a speedway track in Gorton are slim to nil.

 

I am not aware of any pop concert having been held there. Who was playing?

 

There are restrictions with regard to noise so I don't think a firework display is likely to happen.

Besides November the 5th only tends to come once a year, so probably not a lot of scope there.

 

There used to be two motorbike shows in Manchester, both obviously inside.

One of these has gone down the tubes, the other is keeping going once a year at the exhibition hall at the Trafford Centre.

 

Manchester is awash with venues touting for corporate business and the big hotels can offer very attractive deals for companies.

I am not sure what Belle Vue Arena is able to offer that would entice big corporate spenders to hold their events there.

 

I do not wish to appear negative but I am not yet seeing this unidentified income stream that will transform Belle Vue Arena from a loss-maker to a profit-generator.

 

And it is very well, people chirping away about marketing the place better, sticking posters up, handing leaflets out but all these things require both funds and vision.

 

I am not sure that either of these commodities are readily available in this situation.

[cityrebel]

The stadium reminds me of a typical new build lower league football ground, the track however is one of the best this country has produced in modern times. Unfortunately great racing does not guarantee decent crowds. A project of this magnitude has probably come 20 years too late.

[Little Thumper]

 

So you've exhausted all your other negative aspects and decide to denigrate the locality, it's just as well Sheikh Mansour didn't adopt that attitude.

 

 

How exactly have I denigrated the locality?

 

Who is Sheik Mansour? Is he a resident of the area which you claim that I have denigrated?

[PHILIPRISING]

The stadium is good by speedway standards, but that's pointless if it's financial unviable. Even worse is if bills go unpaid, as no local authority will ever be persuaded to trust the sport again, and may simply just convert the whole thing into a hockey stadium or whatever.

 

After your previous assurances about the financial viability, you're now saying that it can't survive on speedway alone. Well maybe not, but how many women would really want their wedding at a speedway track? Wouldn't be relying on that a business plan.

 

Of course MCC are pulling out all the stops. They've shelled out a lot of cash and want to recoup it.

NOT talking about a wedding ceremony but reception. The Peter Craven suite is ideal. There is already a hockey facility as part of the village and how could they pay for the NSS?

 

I never said it could survive on turnstile revenue alone. It was always in the business plan to make use of the stadium for as many days of the year as possible. That still has to be the aim and with an innovative stadium manager I'm sure much could be achieved.

 

The interminable delays undoubtably cost them potential sponsors but it appears others might be in the pipeline now that the previous management have gone.

The stadium is good by speedway standards, but that's pointless if it's financial unviable. Even worse is if bills go unpaid, as no local authority will ever be persuaded to trust the sport again, and may simply just convert the whole thing into a hockey stadium or whatever.

 

After your previous assurances about the financial viability, you're now saying that it can't survive on speedway alone. Well maybe not, but how many women would really want their wedding at a speedway track? Wouldn't be relying on that a business plan.

 

Of course MCC are pulling out all the stops. They've shelled out a lot of cash and want to recoup it.

NOT talking about a wedding ceremony but reception. The Peter Craven suite is ideal. There is already a hockey facility as part of the village and how could they pay for the NSS?

 

I never said it could survive on turnstile revenue alone. It was always in the business plan to make use of the stadium for as many days of the year as possible. That still has to be the aim and with an innovative stadium manager I'm sure much could be achieved.

 

The interminable delays undoubtably cost them potential sponsors but it appears others might be in the pipeline now that the previous management have gone.

[nw42]

 

How exactly have I denigrated the locality?

 

Who is Sheik Mansour? Is he a resident of the area which you claim that I have denigrated?

 

 

Don't be daft, you know what you wrote.

 

It's Sheikh, google is your friend.

[Little Thumper]

NOT talking about a wedding ceremony but reception. The Peter Craven suite is ideal. There is already a hockey facility as part of the village and how could they pay for the NSS?

 

I never said it could survive on turnstile revenue alone. It was always in the business plan to make use of the stadium for as many days of the year as possible. That still has to be the aim and with an innovative stadium manager I'm sure much could be achieved.

 

The interminable delays undoubtably cost them potential sponsors but it appears others might be in the pipeline now that the previous management have gone.

NOT talking about a wedding ceremony but reception. The Peter Craven suite is ideal. There is already a hockey facility as part of the village and how could they pay for the NSS?

 

I never said it could survive on turnstile revenue alone. It was always in the business plan to make use of the stadium for as many days of the year as possible. That still has to be the aim and with an innovative stadium manager I'm sure much could be achieved.

 

The interminable delays undoubtably cost them potential sponsors but it appears others might be in the pipeline now that the previous management have gone.

 

I am sure that your confidence will prove well-founded and the sponsors and income streams that have to date proved so elusive will now emerge into the bright light of day.

 

I had not realized that the previous management had deterred previous sponsors, so thank you for sharing that information.

 

You are of course assuming that any new management team will be superior to their predecessors. Unless you are aware of the identity of the new tenants, then this judgement must remain an assumption and we await their arrival with eager anticipation.

[cityrebel]

I'm amazed that there are new promoters willing to take over loss making tracks. They must have very deep pockets or creative accountants, or maybe they are just crackers!

[Little Thumper]

 

 

Don't be daft, you know what you wrote.

 

It's Sheikh, google is your friend.

 

Calling me "daft" is surely defamation.

 

Yes, I know what I wrote and I do not believe that expressing a personal opinion could be construed as denigration.

 

Google most certainly is not my friend as I never use it.

I prefer to use a search engine such as DuckDuckGo, which does not track it's users.

 

Now that matter has been cleared up, I am off to my bed chamber.

Good Evening to you nw42 and to all the other contributors to this evening's lively discussion.

[Phil The Ace]

 

Halifaxtiger, I admire your tenacity!

 

I feel confident in saying that the chances of sane people wanting to have their wedding ceremony at a speedway track in Gorton are slim to nil.

 

I am not aware of any pop concert having been held there. Who was playing?

 

There are restrictions with regard to noise so I don't think a firework display is likely to happen.

Besides November the 5th only tends to come once a year, so probably not a lot of scope there.

 

There used to be two motorbike shows in Manchester, both obviously inside.

One of these has gone down the tubes, the other is keeping going once a year at the exhibition hall at the Trafford Centre.

 

Manchester is awash with venues touting for corporate business and the big hotels can offer very attractive deals for companies.

I am not sure what Belle Vue Arena is able to offer that would entice big corporate spenders to hold their events there.

 

I do not wish to appear negative but I am not yet seeing this unidentified income stream that will transform Belle Vue Arena from a loss-maker to a profit-generator.

 

And it is very well, people chirping away about marketing the place better, sticking posters up, handing leaflets out but all these things require both funds and vision.

 

I am not sure that either of these commodities are readily available in this situation.

Yes we may not have seen the capability of the stadium but as we have just found out. The promotion wasn't very good at it

 

 

Let's see what new promotors can do. And if they can't utilise the stadium fully then yes. Let's get worried.

 

For now I'm looking forward to seein big changes in the way the stadium is operated under a new management team

Edited November 5, 2016 by Phil The Ace