Belle Vue National Stadium

[SCB]

2. Would it not be prudent to have a Plan B in hand, like talking seriously to the owners of the Ricoh Arena? Locationwise, it beats Manchester hands down, and would have a far bigger capacity - in fact, it only needs a track laying!!!

Would be cheaper too based on the figures released and based on what the Ricoh were offering Cov City!

[Rob B]

Two points!

 

1. Did I read 6,000 capacity? That's an English GP out of the reckoning then!

 

 

6,000 is standard capacity, original plans were temporary extra grandstands can be added round bends and back straight to make capacity 15,000 for big events

[PHILIPRISING]

Concrete is planning permission or dates they're going to start building. This is nothing. I actually feel a little sorry for the BV management here. You're bigging up has made what could have been a positive little update has turned into a huge let down. Surely as a journalist you must know that reporting some news is coming means that news has to be good or you just leave people disappointed.

IF I was actually "reporting news" as you put it then I would do so in Speedway Star... I was just giving a heads up to the fact that Manchester City council were putting out their own Press Release which underlined their intent of pushing ahead asap (positive news?) and going for planning permission (concrete news?) now that more bricks (metaphorically speaking) were in place.

 

Still surprised that appears to rub you and a few of the other usual suspects up the wrong way. But, hey ho, I've developed a thick skin over the years.

6,000 is standard capacity, original plans were temporary extra grandstands can be added round bends and back straight to make capacity 15,000 for big events

ABSOLUTELY correct ... just like established speedway tracks such as in Malilla and Vojens. However, the grandstand facilities including bars and restaurants will be open during the week and I believe that conference facilities will also be available.

 

Whatever shortcomings some may believe David Gordon possesses as a speedway promoter, he is in fact a successful and experienced businessman who will use his considerable acumen to ensure that the stadium is used to its fullest extent.

[jimmy jimmy]

Well why doesn't someone from this forum approach the Ricoh arena, agree a deal to rent the stadium, approach Horton to buy the licence rights, lay the track and put the Bees in there, if its so easy. Then approach BSI to get the second GP there, come on boys, the Promoters today are so rubbish so why don't you show them how it's done.

[Topcat]

 

el weathero weekendo au meteorogico paoulo feesh...

 

eastiebourno...

 

scorchio....

 

ryehouso...

 

scorchio....

 

glasgowo....

 

p1ssingdowno....

No lykee Glasgowo peeshing down :-(

[arthur cross]

The Ricoh would be perfect.

 

Why hasn't it happened, it's on a plate ffs!

 

Coventry will be joining the ranks of Cradley et al whose promoters and fans have just stood aside and let them die.

 

Come on Coventry don't let it happen!

Dear, oh dear, oh dear ... again !!

 

The Ricoh Arena is nowhere near being "on a plate" for the Coventry Bees to plonk down a speedway track to save their future.

 

Instead, next Tuesday at Birmingham High Court there's a judicial review involving Coventry City Council, SISU (the owners of Coventry City FC who are so deeply unpopular with that club's fans) and the company called ACL who own the Ricoh Arena.

 

Trying to sum up a few years of football controversy in one post on a speedway forum isn't easy but here goes ...

 

When Coventry City decided it wasn't worth further upgrading their Highfield Road ground in the late 1990's, they were still on a run of more than 30 years in the top division.

 

But that ended with relegation in May 2001 while delays in demolition work to clear the site for the Ricoh Arena meant it didn't finally open until 2005 and, by then, Coventry City's crowds had started dwindling with little sign of them being promoted back to the Premier League.

 

Hence the late-1990's financial planning between the football club and their new stadium owners was utterly wrecked by the time Coventry City actually began playing in the Ricoh Arena.

 

As Coventry's results (and crowds) sank even further, including relegation to the 3rd-level (League 1), the new controversial owners of the football club SISU fell out spectacularly with ACL over revising the stadium-rent to reflect the club's poorer circumstances with the result that Coventry City began borrowing Northampton Town's ground for home games last August.

 

In the meantime, Coventry City Council (not wanting to see a relatively new venue risk becoming obsolete like the recently-demolished Don Valley Stadium in Sheffield) granted ACL a loan of £14.4million to prop up the stadium's finances.

 

Tuesday's Birmingham High Court judicial review centres on SISU accusing Coventry City Council of giving ACL "illegal state aid" with that £14.4million loan so that ACL didn't need to drop their stadium-rent to a more realistic level for League-1 football that would have enabled SISU to keep their team in its own city instead of reluctantly borrowing another ground 35 miles away.

 

Reading between the lines, it appears Coventry City Council and ACL both want to make life as difficult as possible for SISU so that SISU eventually sell their ownership of the football club ... then, the new football owners triumphantly bring their team back into the Ricoh Arena and everyone except SISU lives happily ever after.

 

Do you still think the Ricoh is "on a plate" for the Coventry Bees ? !!

[arthur cross]

What a pity you haven't gone to as much effort looking into the National Speedway Stadium. If you had bothered to try and understand what has been going on in Manchester you would wind your neck in and stop posting inane bollox all the time.

I've spent plenty of time over the past 7 years looking into the National Speedway Stadium ever since it was first mooted by Belle Vue.

 

I fully understand what's been going on in Manchester thanks to material available from Manchester City Council, the Manchester Evening News and other more unlikely sources like BBC-1's excellent feature on Football Focus a couple of months ago explaining the link-up between the council and Man City FC regarding the plans for community facilities near the Etihad Stadium.

 

In comparison, I've also paid full attention to the pitifully poor amount of worthwhile information (rather than waffle) that's emerged from the Belle Vue Aces themselves over these past 7 years, culminating in yesterday's hopelessly low-key announcement of the stadium-sketches tour of local libraries and community halls.

 

By the way, I notice you've made no effort to reply to my question about the Ricoh Arena after I'd made the effort to bring your ignorance neatly up-to-date with that current situation ... not very good at debating anything, are you ? !!

[StevePark]

The Ricoh would be perfect.

 

Why hasn't it happened, it's on a plate ffs!

 

Coventry will be joining the ranks of Cradley et al whose promoters and fans have just stood aside and let them die.

 

Come on Coventry don't let it happen!

 

Have you been there? If not have a look on Google Maps.

 

Anything but "on a plate" due to housing nearby.

[arthur cross]

The Ricoh would be perfect.

 

Why hasn't it happened, it's on a plate ffs!

 

Coventry will be joining the ranks of Cradley et al whose promoters and fans have just stood aside and let them die.

 

Come on Coventry don't let it happen!

Why would I be bothered about an empty stadium in a small midlands town?

You seemed reasonably bothered about it 10 hours earlier !!

 

We need to people who CAN get things done like Gordon and Morton not sad individuals who constantly moan and whinge negative bile.

28-months (from the MEN-article I quoted back in February 2012 which headlined the hosting of the 2013 World Cup Final) to reach the "massive step forward" according to Dave Gordon yesterday of showing the stadium-skecthes to the locals doesn't fit many textbook descriptions of anyone who "CAN get things done".

Edited June 6, 2014 by arthur cross

[Aces51]

So on the one hand, we have Arthur Cross. We have no idea if he has any experience whatsoever in these matters but he feels suitably qualified to call David Gordon and Chris Morton clowns, apparently based on some unspecified dealings he had with them.

 

On the other hand we know that David Gordon is an extremely successful businessman who, with Chris Morton, had the vision and ability to persuade Manchester City Council to support and largely fund the new stadium. Not only that but also to gain the support and financial backing of a number of very high profile and respected business people who have known David Gordon for some time.

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=74455&page=1

 

My experience is that such organisations and high profile businessmen are not known for supporting those they do not believe have the necessary ability to deliver.

 

I know whose opinions I believe and it is not Arthur Cross.

[Midland Red]

Have you been there? If not have a look on Google Maps.

 

Anything but "on a plate" due to housing nearby.

Really? Just where exactly?

 

And don't forget it's a full enclosed stadium, not an open space with a grandstand added - noise not a problem

[StevePark]

Really? Just where exactly?

 

And don't forget it's a full enclosed stadium, not an open space with a grandstand added - noise not a problem

 

Right behind the car park. Not just noise, but disruption to the local area.

 

Don't forget the NIMBY's who will crawl out of the woodwork at any opportunity.

[Midland Red]

Why would I be bothered about an empty stadium in a small midlands town?

 

Er, city if you don't mind - the 13th in the list of English towns/cities by population (305,000), Manchester is 9th (402,000). Source: http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/

 

 

Right behind the car park. Not just noise, but disruption to the local area.

 

Don't forget the NIMBY's who will crawl out of the woodwork at any opportunity.

I think you'll find that there is a very busy (and noisy) main road between the arena and the carpark

It was built as a 32,000 seater football stadium, so speedway attendances, apart from an English GP say, would be well within the capacity which the authorities allowed the construction for

 

It has also been a regular host to pop and other music concerts, where I suspect the volume of constant noise has far outweighed the odd minute or so of speedway engines during an evening!

 

Just get your facts checked other than staring at Google, sir!

Edited June 6, 2014 by Midland Red

[StevePark]

Er, city if you don't mind - the 13th in the list of English towns/cities by population (305,000), Manchester is 9th (402,000). Source: http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/

 

 

I think you'll find that there is a very busy (and noisy) main road between the arena and the carpark

It was built as a 32,000 seater football stadium, so speedway attendances, apart from an English GP say, would be well within the capacity which the authorities allowed the construction for

 

It has also been a regular host to pop and other music concerts, where I suspect the volume of constant noise has far outweighed the odd minute or so of speedway engines during an evening!

 

Just get your facts checked other than staring at Google, sir!

 

Not where I'm looking on Google maps "Streetview" there isn't. On Judds Lane there is a narrow path next to a wooden fence leading to houses (there is a white coach on the right in the car park, with houses straight ahead).

 

Also, don't forget, speedway would be running (weather permitting) every week, not just the every fortnight the stadium would be used for football.

 

All I'm saying is it's not "on a plate" as suggested by Drop a cog. I'm not saying it isn't a possibilty, but there would be a few obstacles that would have to be overcome to persuade people to allow speedway to move into the stadium.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Steve Park

[arthur cross]

So on the one hand, we have Arthur Cross. We have no idea if he has any experience whatsoever in these matters but he feels suitably qualified to call David Gordon and Chris Morton clowns, apparently based on some unspecified dealings he had with them.

 

On the other hand we know that David Gordon is an extremely successful businessman who, with Chris Morton, had the vision and ability to persuade Manchester City Council to support and largely fund the new stadium. Not only that but also to gain the support and financial backing of a number of very high profile and respected business people who have known David Gordon for some time.

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=74455&page=1

 

My experience is that such organisations and high profile businessmen are not known for supporting those they do not believe have the necessary ability to deliver.

 

I know whose opinions I believe and it is not Arthur Cross.

And you're perfectly entitled to confirm such a belief.

 

Mind you, the opening 4 paragraphs of the forum-thread you've quoted from mid-August 2013 are as follows ...

 

BELLE Vue chief David Gordon has unveiled the stunning team of international business big-hitters who will play a major part in the club’s new era.

He named an awesome consortium of top British businessmen who have invested in the club’s future and the new stadium at the new Belle Vue Sports Village.

It was recently given the green light by Manchester City Council who have appointed international construction company ISG, who have a base on Salford Quays, to develop the site in Kirkmanshulme Lane, Gorton.

ISG, who built the futuristic Velodrome for last year’s London Olympics, are now pursuing planning permission and hopes are high the Aces will race into their new home in 2014.

 

Given we're already nearly halfway through 2014, are those hopes still high that the Aces will race into their new home this year ? !!

 

There's a repeated theme here ... the MEN-article from Feb-2012 targeted the 2013 World Cup for the new stadium ... then the forum-thread and press release from Aug-2013 targeted 2014 for Belle Vue racing into their new homw ... now, on the first page of this thread in Jun-2014, we had "Phil The Ace" reporting that "Diggers won't be digging until next year at earliest."

 

There's only so long you can credibly keep raising hopes for "next year" and then switch without any shame to another "next year" when the calendar moves on.

[ouch]

I think Authur Cross must be in the know as he had been aware of this project for seven years yet the news only entered the public domain three years ago. The Aces held an event at Gorton Monastry in August 2011 where us not already in the know were given details on the project.

[oldace]

I think Authur Cross must be in the know as he had been aware of this project for seven years yet the news only entered the public domain three years ago. The Aces held an event at Gorton Monastry in August 2011 where us not already in the know were given details on the project.

 

 

It was first made public in early 2010 and it is well documented that they have been working on this for 7 years now.

 

A little research before a post can save you looking a little silly really

[SCB]

 

Right behind the car park. Not just noise, but disruption to the local area.

 

Don't forget the NIMBY's who will crawl out of the woodwork at any opportunity.

"disruption to the local area"? So people are going to complain about being disrupted by 2-3000 speedway fans turning up at a stadium that was built for and has the infrastructure to host 32,000? A few speedway crowds will be nothing like the mid-teens Coventry city used to have there. As for noise, it's a full enclosed stadium, the only gap is the hole in the roof.

 

It's probably not feasable. Running costs are probably too high and the fact a load of seats would need removing around the front the make a track of any reasonable size fit. But the numbers throw about in Manchester and the numbers offered to Coventry City in the last 12-18 months mean that actual rent would be cheaper at the Ricoh. The difference is in Manchester they would get catering but they'd need to sell a lot of burgers to make up the difference. But I'd also imagine you'd get a lot more people pop along to the Ricoh to "have a look" than you would get at Manchesters stadium. You could probably justify charging a £3-4 premium too as you have a seat, won't get wet if it rains, hopefully being enclosed (but admittedly with no roof) you would hopefully be shaded from some of the weather.

Edited June 6, 2014 by SCB

[ouch]

The point I'm making was that Arthur Cross has been watching this process for seven years and not the three oops sorry four years that the rest of us have been aware of it. He must be in the know to be aware of it years before the rest of us. The fact the Aces have been working on it for seven years only became known retrospectively with only a few like Mr Cross being in the know prior to the MEN press release.

[StevePark]

"disruption to the local area"? So people are going to complain about being disrupted by 2-3000 speedway fans turning up at a stadium that was built for and has the infrastructure to host 32,000? A few speedway crowds will be nothing like the mid-teens Coventry city used to have there. As for noise, it's a full enclosed stadium, the only gap is the hole in the roof.

 

It's probably not feasable. Running costs are probably too high and the fact a load of seats would need removing around the front the make a track of any reasonable size fit. But the numbers throw about in Manchester and the numbers offered to Coventry City in the last 12-18 months mean that actual rent would be cheaper at the Ricoh. The difference is in Manchester they would get catering but they'd need to sell a lot of burgers to make up the difference. But I'd also imagine you'd get a lot more people pop along to the Ricoh to "have a look" than you would get at Manchesters stadium. You could probably justify charging a £3-4 premium too as you have a seat, won't get wet if it rains, hopefully being enclosed (but admittedly with no roof) you would hopefully be shaded from some of the weather.

 

"The hole in the roof", that won't be a roof as such then, will it? Noise will still emanate from it.

 

But I'm glad you accept that "it's probably not feasable," which means you agree with me on one point, that it isn't "on a plate" as suggested by Drop a cog.