mikebv Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) The danger is many fans will see the new stadium as the 'saviour of speedway'.... The truth is the addition of a new speedway stadium to speedway in its current guise, is akin to putting a pair of 44dd implants in a lady's chest when she is in the operating theatre to have a heart transplant Cosmetically it will all look great, but without the serious surgery required to fix the patients real problems, it could sadly and ultimately prove to be nothing more than a well intentioned expensive futile exercise.... Edited September 9, 2014 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 The danger is many fans will see the new stadium as the 'saviour of speedway'.... The truth is the addition of a new speedway stadium to speedway in its current guise, is akin to putting a pair of 44dd implants in a lady's chest when she is in the hospital to have a heart transplant Cosmetically it will all look great, but without the serious surgery required to fix the patients real problems, ultimately it could sadly prove to be nothing more than a well intentioned futile exercise.... Which is why i am amazed at the city council being involved with this. It is quite likely they will end up with a £6000,000 white elephant on their hands. Only the most optimistic can see a long term future for british speedway in its current guise and the current incumbents dont seem to have a clue how to turn things round 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Which is why i am amazed at the city council being involved with this. It is quite likely they will end up with a £6000,000 white elephant on their hands. Only the most optimistic can see a long term future for british speedway in its current guise and the current incumbents dont seem to have a clue how to turn things round Yes and a pity the forum has negative, glass half empty, 'speedway put downs, without constructive opinion' like you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 The new BV complex is not just a speedway venue, its a sports complex - a multi sports complex, thats why the city council is probably backing the venue, to be involved in providing multi sports facilities for the local community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 The new BV complex is not just a speedway venue, its a sports complex - a multi sports complex, thats why the city council is probably backing the venue, to be involved in providing multi sports facilities for the local community. And at the heart of it is an oval shaped stadium designed for speedway. It will be pretty much useless to anything other than oval track sport so should the Aces vacate it, for whatever reason, it would need a massive injection of cash to make it into a usable venue for anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 And at the heart of it is an oval shaped stadium designed for speedway. It will be pretty much useless to anything other than oval track sport so should the Aces vacate it, for whatever reason, it would need a massive injection of cash to make it into a usable venue for anything else. Whilst I have to admit to a degree of cynicism about this over-hyped project, councils waste lots of money on lots of things with a limited economic outlook, including athletics stadiums which hardly anyone uses (e.g. Don Valley). Perhaps if speedway got more support from local government (as in Scandinavia) than it might help rejuvenate what used to be a popular sport at the heart of local communities. There's probably a reasonable case that if a half-respectable stadium can be constructed, then it might well draw larger speedway events that will help justify it. After all, there's not really much competition around nowadays, and if/when Coventry goes, there will really be no respectable stadium for major speedway events left in Britain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P T Preece Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 You could go back to the old days and have the ELRC there as they did for many years at Hyde road, whats the chance of the European Grand prix coming to Britain. It seems a bit odd to me that an event called European GP is always in Poland, if its a european event shouldent it be spread about to other european countrys, this might generate some capital as a new Grand prix of this sort in different countrys generally gets a good crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Whilst I have to admit to a degree of cynicism about this over-hyped project, councils waste lots of money on lots of things with a limited economic outlook, including athletics stadiums which hardly anyone uses (e.g. Don Valley). Perhaps if speedway got more support from local government (as in Scandinavia) than it might help rejuvenate what used to be a popular sport at the heart of local communities. There's probably a reasonable case that if a half-respectable stadium can be constructed, then it might well draw larger speedway events that will help justify it. After all, there's not really much competition around nowadays, and if/when Coventry goes, there will really be no respectable stadium for major speedway events left in Britain. Don Valley is actually a good case in point. As an athletic stadium it was one of the finest, thing is, outside of big championships, no one goes to watch athletics, its more about participation at club level than attracting huge crowds. Problem for Don Valley though was that it didn't lend itself to anything other than athletics, Sheffield Eagles played there to rather pitiful crowds in a totally sterile atmosphere, largely dictated by the layout. To make Don Valley usable it would have pretty much had to be demolished and rebuilt, the council electing to carry out only the former You could go back to the old days and have the ELRC there as they did for many years at Hyde road, whats the chance of the European Grand prix coming to Britain. It seems a bit odd to me that an event called European GP is always in Poland, if its a european event shouldent it be spread about to other european countrys, this might generate some capital as a new Grand prix of this sort in different countrys generally gets a good crowd. The European GP will go to whoever stumps up the cash to hold it. You could host it in your back garden if you are willing to give BSI a few hundred grand for the privilege Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P T Preece Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Ill look into that, fantastic I could watch out of the kitchen window, crowd would be a problem and the track would be kinda small I reckon I could get 20 in the garden, do a few sandwiches and keep the kettle on. Press box could be on the garage roof now or I have to do is have a word with solihull Council and get planning permission, European grand prix for 2016 will be in Solihull. Tickets will be a bit expensive due to the low capacity. Im not to far from Birmingham airport either. The bus and rail travel is close as well, theres a bus stop just up the road, right next job have a word with BSI. Ill keep you informed of the progress of this project. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Ill look into that, fantastic I could watch out of the kitchen window, crowd would be a problem and the track would be kinda small I reckon I could get 20 in the garden, do a few sandwiches and keep the kettle on. Press box could be on the garage roof now or I have to do is have a word with solihull Council and get planning permission, European grand prix for 2016 will be in Solihull. Tickets will be a bit expensive due to the low capacity. Im not to far from Birmingham airport either. The bus and rail travel is close as well, theres a bus stop just up the road, right next job have a word with BSI. Ill keep you informed of the progress of this project. To be honest your GP is more likely to happen than the recent one in Riga, sounds like you have put more thought into it as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Apparently the Manchester evening news are reporting we have been given the green light for the new stadium. The hearing is suppose to be tomo though so they may have jumped the gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Apparently the Manchester evening news are reporting we have been given the green light for the new stadium. The hearing is suppose to be tomo though so they may have jumped the gun LOL. Thought tbf, even cynical old me expected that once planning permission went in it was a formality. Lets just hope something gets built that is at least half way to being what was described and fitting of the name "National Speedway Stadium". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 A paralell thread on this topic has now been locked. I would have though an idea MIGHT have been to combine the two threads. It's easy enough for a Mod/Mods to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 And at the heart of it is an oval shaped stadium designed for speedway. It will be pretty much useless to anything other than oval track sport so should the Aces vacate it, for whatever reason, it would need a massive injection of cash to make it into a usable venue for anything else. HOCKEY pitch in the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 LOL. Thought tbf, even cynical old me expected that once planning permission went in it was a formality. Lets just hope something gets built that is at least half way to being what was described and fitting of the name "National Speedway Stadium". I don't see a problem with it being accepted but I will wait till after the hearing at 2PM tomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I see that the Manchester Evening News this morning had a snippet on the front cover.. "Stadium is green for go. A new national speedway stadium has been given the green light at Belle Vue (see page 19)" The ensuing article then commences with "could get the green light this week" then mostly talks about concerns over its impact on the hockey players who could temporarily be left without a home. Sport England are apparently asking for a condition to be placed on the approval to ensure that the hockey players have a base until the Armitage Centre is ready. Hopefully just a minor stumbling block in the overall plan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 HOCKEY pitch in the middle On the site are already 2 hockey pitches. Outside of major events hockey isn't played for the spectators, it is more participation. The set up as it is is far more suited for the hockey fraternity than a pitch at least 30 yards from the prospective audience. Clearly the hockey pitch is included in the plans as a way of utilizing an otherwise wasted space and to, in some way, compensate for the loss of two fully functioning pitches already there. A new stadium for the Aces (and speedway) has the potential to be a catalyst for better fortune but on it's own, with the sport left to limp from one calamity to another, it won't stop the inevitable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Yes and a pity the forum has negative, glass half empty, 'speedway put downs, without constructive opinion' like you! To be fair Ray it's being realistic about the project rather than negative. No one posting does not want the stadium built and queues around the block waiting to get in. But of course people are just tired after so many years of hearing all this twaddle about the project. So let's get REAL. It is NOT a NATIONAL speedway stadium it is a speedway stadium and not a particularly big one. Which is fair enough as speedway hardly attracts big crowds anymore. The promotion will have to pay for it and that is a MAJOR bugbear with the project as Belle Vue will have to get a decent team to attract a crowd and they have not had much success with that recently. They will of course own the facilities so benefit as a result but again it all depends on getting a healthy crowd to make it all pay. They may also benefit from multi use of the stadium such as pop events. But Speedway is dying on it's feet here so of course people question the reality of having a 6 million pound debt hanging round the neck of the club before a wheel turns. Will the sport be able to give itself the shot in the arm it needs to allow a club like BV to feel the benefit of a new stadium? We all hope so as we love speedway or we would not waste our time blathering on here. I don't go anymore but still get a buzz out of watching Internet speedway around the globe but the sport could never attract me back as it is not value for money for the effort it would involve and that is the problem. A nice spandy new stadium is great but you need to give people a reason to visit it and the blind devotion of those left is not enough. It is one of the most exciting sports I have ever seen but it is presented and promoted so badly even the die hards (and I used to be one of them many years ago) left are finding better things to do. It's not like the movies. 'Build it and they will come.' It will take huge efforts to get even a break even crowd to the new stadium. From such a low base speedway will have to begin to work together for the good of the sport and that does not work very well either. So Belle Vue will move their poorly performing team from the ramshackle rubbish tip they ride in to a brand new facility next door and thousands of new fans will flock to see them? I don't think so. Of course it will get the normal Honeymoon period where people go from curiosity or like in the old days the want to see a new venue. We have probably all done that But once reality sets in what will be left? And that surely IS the rub. Will it be built? Who knows. I have seen much bigger projects just disappear. If it is great but then the problems will seriously begin for the promotion. I wish them luck as I wish luck to anyone who runs a speedway track but the sport is not what it was and reality is a better option than blind optimism. After all we live in the real world and the real world is a hard unforgiving place HOCKEY pitch in the middle Well that makes a massive difference. Forget all I just said the project will be a spectacular success It's like I said before with my Monty Python analogy. "I found this spoon sergeant" Edited September 10, 2014 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Don Valley is actually a good case in point. As an athletic stadium it was one of the finest, thing is, outside of big championships, no one goes to watch athletics, its more about participation at club level than attracting huge crowds. Problem for Don Valley though was that it didn't lend itself to anything other than athletics, Sheffield Eagles played there to rather pitiful crowds in a totally sterile atmosphere, largely dictated by the layout. To make Don Valley usable it would have pretty much had to be demolished and rebuilt, the council electing to carry out only the former Don Valley is the reason why I have little time for those rabbiting on about an Olympic athletics legacy. The only sports that justify large stadiums are football and rugby, and they don't sit well in oval stadia. Even at the lower end of the scale, I see quite a few athletics facilities have been built at considerable expense by local councils, and yet only ever seem to be used by a handful of people. I've nothing against athletics and can see the benefit providing facilities to encourage people to take up the sport, but the economic argument seems pretty weak. If a council therefore finally shows some support for speedway that's historically far more popular than athletics, then that surely is to be commended rather than criticised. 6 million is really not a huge investment, especially when you consider that Don Valley Stadium apparently cost nearly 30 million 25 years ago, but it's really the allocation of land that's the most valuable aspect as getting inner city sites for motor sports is almost unheard of these days. If it ultimately doesn't work out then so be it - the land can still be re-developed for something else. The European GP will go to whoever stumps up the cash to hold it. You could host it in your back garden if you are willing to give BSI a few hundred grand for the privilege That's basically what happened in Riga, isn't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 God loves a trier. More negative bilge easily brushed off. You've come up with some pearlers recently but the last two frankly leave your desperate puerile moaning laid bare for all to see, lol! Unless you are an asylum seeker or a teenage single mother then the chances of getting anything out of the council are minimal. It is fair to say 'due diligence' will have been completed to the nth degree and is no doubt one of the major factors for this taking so long. I wouldn't worry about the council being left with a 'white elephant', read on. Not only that but the 'oval track' bollox is surely your finest moment! I don't know if you've noticed but the stadium we are soon to vacate has gone from being one of the premier greyhound tracks in the country to a crumbling decrepit wreck of its former self. The land it is built on, however, is worth more than it ever has been. The GRA would be creaming their pants if there was even the slightest opportunity of selling the current site and moving in to a shiny new stadium as tenants because it is an err oval stadium (lol!) in the perfect location. They could even sublet to the stock cars. If I were you I'd think through your next attempt at a puerile moan about Belle Vue. Having said that I am a glass half full positive thinker so I do appreciate the opportunity to not only demonstrate that side of my character but also my contempt for buffoons who trot out absolute tosh in some misguided attempt to suck the life out of anything and everything they come into contact with. Happy days, Anyway following on from that does anyone have a contribution that is not straight from the mouth of a complete halfwit. How you getting on convincing people of the aces 5 league titles in a row by the way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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