Who Was The Last Rider To Win An Official Meaningful Race On An Upright Engine, And Where?

[Shale Searcher]

Just interested in this because of all the regular talk/discussion about uprights being the sports saviour.. A lot of people say they were easier to ride, handled deep dirt better. So who was he and when did it happen... Also, could a lay down be fitted in an upright position ? Obviously some sort of modification would need to be manufactured to assist the silencer down pipe in mating to the engine, what else would need modifications.. When the first (modern day lay down) was fitted, was it just an upright engine swivelled around?

Equally, who was the first rider to turn up with the laydown configuration....?

Edited May 28, 2014 by Shale Searcher

[foamfence]

Just interested in this because of all the regular talk/discussion about uprights being the sports saviour.. A lot of people say they were easier to ride, handled deep dirt better. So who was he and when did it happen... Also, could a lay down be fitted in an upright position ? Obviously some sort of modification would need to be manufactured to assist the silencer down pipe in mating to the engine, what else would need modifications.. When the first (modern day lay down) was fitted, was it just an upright engine swivelled around?

Equally, who was the first rider to turn up with the laydown configuration....?

Yes it was. The main problem was carburettors. the early laydowns would flood and backfire in mid corner. Uprights weren't necessarily easier to ride but the different riding technique probably meant that the rider was further forward on the bike and shut-off more entering the turns. The first laydown that I ever saw was ridden by Martin Hagon, Barry Briggs used to bring one to Odsal for Kelvin Tatum to practice with and test ride, after meetings.

[moomin man 76]

In 1996, I can remember Ronnie Correy riding an upright for Wolverhampton for the first half of the season; especially around Monmore Green, whilst averaging around 9.5-10.00. He only switched to a lay-down, when the early faults outlined above seemed to have been rectified, giving his competitors in his eyes an edge.

[StevePark]

In 1996, I can remember Ronnie Correy riding an upright for Wolverhampton for the first half of the season; especially around Monmore Green, whilst averaging around 9.5-10.00. He only switched to a lay-down, when the early faults outlined above seemed to have been rectified, giving his competitors in his eyes an edge.

 

On a similar theme, Jonathan Swales won the Conference League (Third Division?) Riders Championship on an upright. He was the only rider in the field to ride one that night.

[FAST GATER]

I seem to remember Sudden Sam being one of the last top line riders using an upright and some said he should have moved over sooner to a laydown ?

[Shale Searcher]

So how feasible would it be to rotate a modern lay down to an upright position and get it working..? Obviously there's also issues with the frame/diamond I would imagine.... And would the modern leading link forks be problematic with the above configuration...?

[AFCB Wildcat]

So how feasible would it be to rotate a modern lay down to an upright position and get it working..? Obviously there's also issues with the frame/diamond I would imagine.... And would the modern leading link forks be problematic with the above configuration...?

I have been trying to find this out myself. I have an engine that was converted to laydown and it has had significant changes made to the engine casing to re position the lug where the oil pipe goes in. I have also been told that the crankshaft would need re balancing.

I've yet to ascertain what the impact on the oil pick up and circulation would be in mounting it upright again.

I don't see carburettor or exhaust as being a problem as they are just different items for each configuration.

I seem to remember an ad in the for sale section for a GM that said it could be mounted upright or laydown which is what I'd like to achieve but so far drawn a blank what would be required to do this.

[FAST GATER]

Where there is a will there is a way but what would be achieved by this I believe that whilst they are not cheap frames are not the expensive problem in todays sport.Engines seem to be the the most significant cost not just the purchase but the upkeep and life span of them in contrast to the older upright models previously used .

[JT]

Jan Pedersen of Arena Essex rode an upright. I think he rode one at Newport right up until 1998.

Here he is in 1997, looks like he's about to win a 'meaningful' race! (Photo from the Newport Speedway SOS Facebook page)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=241695452676761&set=gm.471846472937907&type=1&theater

JT.

Edited May 28, 2014 by JT

[Gavan]

i remember when we went with Mark Loram to Bradford in 1994 and back then you were only allowed to ride lay downs in F.I.M meetings. Mark said he had never ridden anything like it round Odsal

[2ndbendbeerhut]

i remember when we went with Mark Loram to Bradford in 1994 and back then you were only allowed to ride lay downs in F.I.M meetings. Mark said he had never ridden anything like it round Odsal

That was the 1st of the World Championship semi finals after they did away with the old Intercontinental and Continental finals. Think Hans Nielsen also had one that day and maybe a couple of others.

Also remember Gerd Riss riding one at Ipswich the same time as Martin Hagon was also "messing about " with one. Normally packed up whilst leading after a couple of laps!

[mouncers monkeymask]

Will James rode an upright for St Austell 2001/2 in conference league

[Catabracadabra]

Yes I'm sure you are correct I remember watching jan pedersen on an upright in 1997/1998, quality rider. Lovely style. Bringing uprights back in would show up the true speedway riders to the ones that just turn the throttle and go and hope for the best, half the time some of these riders are on the brink of being out of control. But then again it that what brings the fans in, the thrill of the riders racing on the edge of control, this doesn't always produce top notch racing, just a spectacle to watch. Unfortunately when it goes wrong it can be horrific to the rider and there family if lifetime injury occurs. The diamond would need to be changed to accommodate. but leading links are fine with the upright frame as leading links were brought in before the lay down engine model in back in 1992/93, I recall Ermolenko being one the first to use the leading links, by antig frames

[Shale Searcher]

Jan Pedersen of Arena Essex rode an upright. I think he rode one at Newport right up until 1998.

 

Here he is in 1997, looks like he's about to win a 'meaningful' race! (Photo from the Newport Speedway SOS Facebook page)

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=241695452676761&set=gm.471846472937907&type=1&theater

 

Yea, thanks for the link...

:-)

I wonder why and how the laydown came about? Did a rider/tuner/mechanic or someone else just think, hmm, wonder what would happen if I did "this" and also, with the frame and other fitments that needed to be done, it could not of been a cheap experiment.... Can't imagine a tuner doing it and saying to a rider, I've made a change that will make you faster, come and give it a try!! or was it a planned project and done in some sort if secrecy.. Were the Hagons instrumental in its development?

[FAST GATER]

I believe one of the main assets of the laydown is that it lowers the centre of gavity making the bike much easier to ride and user freindly ,the overtuned and excessive power of the engines used today is the main problem IMO.

[Shale Searcher]

So layed down = lower centre of gravity, the extra horsepower and speed is down to the tuners and exotic materials, in that case, if the laydown had never been developed, would the upright have been tuned to the same level of performance today?

[spinkox]

Yea, thanks for the link...

:-)

I wonder why and how the laydown came about? Did a rider/tuner/mechanic or someone else just think, hmm, wonder what would happen if I did "this"

I cant think of a single sport that involves speed & corners where a lower centre of gravity doesnt help - even skiing.

 

Ive never been on one - but quad bikes look like they dont go round corners very well. . .

[foamfence]

So layed down = lower centre of gravity, the extra horsepower and speed is down to the tuners and exotic materials, in that case, if the laydown had never been developed, would the upright have been tuned to the same level of performance today?

It also coincided with shallower tread tyres and slicker tracks. Everything is a speed factor. The development of upright engines wouldn't have been exactly the same because they can't be ridden in exactly the same manner.

[Fromafar]

Did Billy Hamill not win a GP on an upright when most of the field were on lay -downs

[Shale Searcher]

Did Billy Hamill not win a GP on an upright when most of the field were on lay -downs

Not sure, would an upright be competitive today? I mean it almost certainly wouldn't be on the big open fast tracks, but places like Eastbourne, Lakeside, Plymouth they just might be.....? Any thoughts.....??