Speedway Star No Guests & Aiding Only Sport No Access To Basic Info

[manchesterpaul]

1.

I could be wrong on this as i've got a poor memory lol, but didn't the Speedway Star always include (G) next to a guest rider's appearance in their match reports? I feel it is something that is very much needed. If it has been removed after previously being included i'd be very interested indeed as to for what reason. Admittedly i spend my time reading up on several sports and keep myself busy with lots of other things so i for one certainly can't memorize every rider in every team when reading through the weekly match reports section. It's harder at the start of the season too with riders having moved around and anyone new to the sport doesn't stand a chance. Also it should be highlighted when on multiple occasions teams have nearly half their line-up (3 riders) all guests.

2.

On to a second complaint, where oh where are the team averages! Surely they should be being published by now??? I do hope their omission is not tied to this weird BSPA thing about 'hiding' fast track riders averages? One of the best features in the Speedway Star is that you can see every team's rider averages in a single issue, every rider in the leagues. I know there is pressure for space but for decades we have had access to this basic information.

It leaves speedway fans with no access as to how all their teams riders are performing in this sporting season. The only official ones published don't take into account bonus points and have little bits of regulations modifying them. The rolling averages are of no use in discerning a riders form over the full current season. The official ones are intended for team building purposes and don't reflect basic sporting performance over the full current season which all other sports and it's publications provide stats for .

At the moment it's a case of if we were a football fan we'd have no access to a list of this seasons goalscorers for a team (only a top section). The rolling averages in the early parts of the season would equate to how many goals a player had scored at the backend of the previous season added to those at the start of this season. That then would change into how many over a specified number of matches whilst subtracting goals scored outside of the specific timeline. What a farce that would be, what a farce we presently have in speedway.

If they do reappear soon but follow the BSPA site's listings and exclude fast track riders from them it will be a farce. it would be strange if the races they are involved in were were to be treated as not having taken place for them, yet the other riders in the race who aren't fast track have the race included in their averages! Or would they be ignoring any race with a FT rider in, which i doubt. It's a bit of a mess the way it stands. The race either counts or it doesn't, it shouldn't count for some and not others in a race. It seems silly to make the data for FT riders not for public consumption! by publishing team averages with their averages excluded on the BSPA site.

As touched upon earlier i steer clear of technical team building averages with their percentages added or deducted and/or rolling averages. Certainly for SPORTING PERFORMANCE indicators bonus points must be included. One can't deny that in the vast majority of races team mates don't race each other when they are placed next to one another, which is indeed why riders get PAID for not doing so with bonus points. I certainly give thanks and credit to Speedway Star for adhering to this age old tradition of publishing them as they always have been, when/if they list each teams average in their magazine.

For those who want to know the team building averages and ranking of draft riders which change monthly they are of course available on the BSPA site. But what isn't available is the current season's sporting performance barometer of averages for each rider for their respective team, including bonus points for reasons stated. Hopefully when the Speedway Star publish their first weekly team averages of the season they will include Fast Track riders averages? I'm awaiting that with interest and hope they do.

Edited May 26, 2014 by manchesterpaul

[Paulco]

Fair points , though nobody knows who rides for who from week to week now anyway . As for the averages , it's a bit of a mess now with rolling averages , fast track averages etc , etc . In the last few seasons the Speedway Star averages bore no resemblance to the actual riders averages anyway , so the exercise of publishing them had become a bit of a irrelevence .

[manchesterpaul]

Fair points , though nobody knows who rides for who from week to week now anyway . As for the averages , it's a bit of a mess now with rolling averages , fast track averages etc , etc . In the last few seasons the Speedway Star averages bore no resemblance to the actual riders averages anyway , so the exercise of publishing them had become a bit of a irrelevence .

Yeah but when you refer to 'actual' averages which ones do you mean? the greensheet ones? One can get the latter on the BSPA site if one's interest is in the technical regulations for team building averages.

 

All i want access to in the Speedway Star are the 'actual' full averages including bonus points from every league and cup competition they have ridden in during the current season only, as it has always been. Which would give an indication of their actual sporting performance in the current single season.

 

I wouldn't want to see a top goalscorers list consisting of only goals scored in a specific rolling time period or number of matches, or over part of two seasons. I would want to know the tally over the full current season.

Edited May 26, 2014 by manchesterpaul

[waiheke1]

I think you could have made your point in two sentences.

But I agree, I would like to see the "real" 2014 averages also (both with and without bp).

Would be interesting to compare the averages of hl to second strings, and compare those figures to starting averages.

[HenryW]

Yeah but when you refer to 'actual' averages which ones do you mean? the greensheet ones? One can get the latter on the BSPA site if one's interest is in the technical regulations for team building averages.

It sounds like you are happy for those wanting the official green sheet averages to head to a website to view those rather than having them printed in the Speedway Star.

Presumably you could do the same thing for the averages that you are interested in.

 

I wouldn't want to see a top goalscorers list consisting of only goals scored in a specific rolling time period or number of matches, or over part of two seasons. I would want to know the tally over the full current season.

Just out of interest, do any of the main print magazines for football actually provide a list of all goalscorers for all clubs?

[Bruiser McHuge]

I always like to see the team averages in speedway star and I mean this season's averages..not green sheets or anything , just averages including bonus points for the season in progress to see how riders are actually performing this season....not much to ask..

And I agree I would like to see a G against a guest rider....I don't actively follow a club now and don't go to live meetings and I genuinely don't know which of these reserves are proper to a team or guesting half the time

[waiheke1]

It sounds like you are happy for those wanting the official green sheet averages to head to a website to view those rather than having them printed in the Speedway Star.

Presumably you could do the same thing for the averages that you are interested in.

 

Just out of interest, do any of the main print magazines for football actually provide a list of all goals corners for all clubs?

Im not sure there is a site that provides those though henry.

Scb's excellent speedway stats site does, but they can be a couple of weeks out of date. The star online version doesn't have them either.

Dont buy print football mags, but top goalscorer stats are readily available online. Ditto full lists of goalscorers by club.

Stats are pretty integral to speedway, so as cricinfo has comprehensive stats, youd hope the star would do tge same, in the somewhat bewildering absence of them on "official" sites.

Edited May 26, 2014 by waihekeaces1

[manchesterpaul]

I think you could have made your point in two sentences.

But I agree, I would like to see the "real" 2014 averages also (both with and without bp).

Would be interesting to compare the averages of hl to second strings, and compare those figures to starting averages.

With respect i'll make a point with as few or as many pages lol, paragraphs, words or letters as i wish lol I was just covering potential arguments in advance - not as in arguing mind.

 

It sounds like you are happy for those wanting the official green sheet averages to head to a website to view those rather than having them printed in the Speedway Star.

Presumably you could do the same thing for the averages that you are interested in.

 

Just out of interest, do any of the main print magazines for football actually provide a list of all goalscorers for all clubs?

 

With the advent of the internet and it's instant news print publications they probably only show end of season scorers. Is there still a weekly mag such as 'Shoot'? i'd imagine they may.

 

I gave my explanation as to why it's more important to have the current performance of the current full season published, in the same way that most football websites give current goalscorers updated daily (or other sporting sites and magazines give updated stats of performances in the actual current season) and was noting that those seeking specialist 'technical team building' averages can obtain them online. Publishing weekly upated actual averages in Speedway Star is perfectly reasonable and valid. Not so sure the same would apply for monthly greensheet (even though they get amended at irregular times within a month).

 

 

I always like to see the team averages in speedway star and I mean this season's averages..not green sheets or anything , just averages including bonus points for the season in progress to see how riders are actually performing this season....not much to ask..

And I agree I would like to see a G against a guest rider....I don't actively follow a club now and don't go to live meetings and I genuinely don't know which of these reserves are proper to a team or guesting half the time

 

It's the way it has always been and rightly so. We don't look at a race and mentally deduct that a rider who is scoring two points is actually scoring 2 minus 5%. Which is why we need averages that reflect what happens on the track.

 

Im not sure there is a site that provides those though henry.

Scb's excellent speedway stats site does, but they can be a couple of weeks out of date. The star online version doesn't have them either.

Dont buy print football mags, but top goalscorer stats are readily available online. Ditto full lists of goalscorers by club.

Stats are pretty integral to speedway, so as cricinfo has comprehensive stats, youd hope the star would do tge same, in the somewhat bewildering absence of them on "official" sites.

 

Lol well more useless than excellent then - TWO WEEKS gee. Also they wouldn't be verified stats checked over by someone whose paid job it is to proof check them. I know from simply filling in a programme at a meeting how easily mistakes can be made lol.

[waiheke1]

Mp - if youre going to denigrste scbs site, why dont you compile the stats and add them to your rscecard site to really keep the visitor numbers ticking over. Use red font and present thrm in s truly innovative manner.

[manchesterpaul]

Mp - if youre going to denigrste scbs site, why dont you compile the stats and add them to your rscecard site to really keep the visitor numbers ticking over. Use red font and present thrm in s truly innovative manner.

 

Not denigrating just pointing out that two weeks out of date is pretty useless in an age of instant information. Even weekly printed publications are only a week or days or a day behind. I'm sure i've even pointed others to SCB's site in the past, it's no problem with me.

 

Gee not another one with childish retorts and a mind that can't cope with two lines of red font! Really is such a trivial matter something that occupies your mind, have you not other matters in life that would make you post to a forum. So are you going to be another who diverts threads to launch harassment and personal attacks on a poster? I only ask as you come out as another who's been hiding discontent (how many agonizing traumatic years in your case?) of a racecard notification consisting of six lines of text (OMG! two of them in red font) that thousands per week appreciate.

 

As i've mentioned to another 'forensic analyst of posts' (must be similar to an extreme form of trainspotting) in these forums......like every other one i've seen on the internet this forum has coloured fonts available, there is no rule saying we must post in black text only. Every form of print and online media makes use of bold or coloured font to highlight a particular section if they so choose.

 

If i choose to use two lines of red font and it makes your life hard to live, well sorry about that.

Edited May 26, 2014 by manchesterpaul

[The Doctor...]

 

Not denigrating just pointing out that two weeks out of date is pretty useless in an age of instant information. Even weekly printed publications are only a week or days or a day behind.

 

 

Well in the age of instant information, perhaps the internet, rather than the speedway star, is where you need to be looking for the info that you crave so much.

[manchesterpaul]

 

Well in the age of instant information, perhaps the internet, rather than the speedway star, is where you need to be looking for the info that you crave so much.

 

But it's always handy to have a physical copy of the averages of every rider in the leagues and in team form. One can't carry a computer or laptop around at all times.

 

Incidentally i don't 'crave' the info i just would like for it to be available as it always has been.

 

I was noting that for something "in the age of instant information" published on a medium that facilitates instant information being two weeks out of date and not officially proof checked isn't all that great.

Edited May 26, 2014 by manchesterpaul

[salty]

Really is such a trivial matter something that occupies your mind, have you not other matters in life that would make you post to a forum.

 

 

 

Funny you should use the word trivial on a thread about whether the Speedway Star used to put a "g" next to a guests name in their match reports. Just saying like.....

[waiheke1]

 

Well in the age of instant information, perhaps the internet, rather than the speedway star, is where you need to be looking for the info that you crave so much.

Tbf the issue is that the stats dont seem to be readily available on the Internet either.

[HenryW]

Tbf the issue is that the stats dont seem to be readily available on the Internet either.

I guess it depends exactly what you want.

I normally use the excellent aktuellspeedway.

There is a .co.uk version with just the stats on it as well if you can't follow the Swedish menus.

[waiheke1]

Brilliant thanks henry w

[manchesterpaul]

Tbf the issue is that the stats dont seem to be readily available on the Internet either.

 

I guess it depends exactly what you want.

I normally use the excellent aktuellspeedway.

There is a .co.uk version with just the stats on it as well if you can't follow the Swedish menus.

 

Leaving aside that the thread is regards the printed Speedway Star, i was aware of that site and a few others but thanks anyway. The only problems with the link you give are that there are still no team averages and worst of all they present the averages in the awful points per race format.

 

Sportowefakty until this year were the absolute Gods of stats and averages lol. They had a single page for each of the major league competitions in Europe, multiple levels for some of them, which comprised of firstly all the riders averages and then below that them all presented in team form. They also included in the averages the number of rides that were engine failures, falls and exclusions etc. plus as an additional extra a column giving the average flat number of points scored per meeting regardless of how many rides were taken. Also i think they listed the foreign riders into an additional table too. Sadly they have dropped the UK averages this season and also have gone to the points per race display.

Edited May 27, 2014 by manchesterpaul

[waiheke1]

Surely its easy enough to copy and paste into excel and then sort as u like?

I agree it is desirable for the star to list them, but if you were aware you could get the stats elsewhere , im not sure its a big issue.

[Arson fire]

I think they should put what colours a rider wears and what their fav cheese is aswell.... Any thoughts??

[manchesterpaul]

I think they should put what colours a rider wears and what their fav cheese is aswell.... Any thoughts??

 

Yeah plenty but unprintable lol.

Surely its easy enough to copy and paste into excel and then sort as u like?

I agree it is desirable for the star to list them, but if you were aware you could get the stats elsewhere , im not sure its a big issue.

 

Once near the start of the season when i was waiting in for a delivery i copied from Sportowefakty into Open Office the averages and had it automatically convert the points per race into the traditional 4 rides per meeting average, it only took a couple of minutes to set up the spreadsheet and instant pasting obviously.

 

Though again i stress my whole point of the post is indeed to have them once more included in the printed - not online - version of the Speedway Star. I don't want to have to boot up my computer if it should be turned off etc and i'm more likely to want to glance at them just for a second and away from where my computers are.

Edited May 27, 2014 by manchesterpaul