Swindon V Belle Vue 26/5/14

[g13webb]

Having read through 300 odd posts of excuses, I still see no reason, why this meeting couldn't have run the full course. It doesn't matter if the heat times were slower, Buster once told me he could alter the track times by as much as 3 sec just by the preparation of the track. The issue here is raceability, and anybody who saw Ht 12 witnessed a track that was racable.

Years ago the promotions would have hurriedly completed the programme without ever thinking about such abandonment. Now, with so many rules that offer the opportunity, we have officials with too much power, dying to make these decisions, that does nothing but make them feel important.

 

God what a mess this sport is in. We're losing supporters by the day and nobody seem to care, decisions are always made for personal gains, And the good of the sport has disappeared with all the other worthy virtues..

[Aces51]

First chance I've had to say anything at length about the meeting.

To start, back to the Coventry match that a few have mentioned. Much like last night there was persistent, but not pouring rain that night that would not let up. The major beef I had that night was that the track and conditions had gone past the point of being raceable at about heat 7, and the heats after that were complete non events. If they thought heats 8,9 and 10 could have been run, how could the heats after 10 not been run, in the same, supposedly raceable conditions...the meeting was still up for grabs, whether swindon looked like they would have mounted a comeback or not was irrelevant. The fans were cheated out of getting any money from a restaging, and were instead treated to 3 or 4 heats of total bilge, rushed through just to tick a box so the whole shambles didn't have to be arranged again, as well as the remaining 5 heats that weren't run. Havelock going on about it on twitter like he masterminded winning the league title, as one of our young riders was being treated for life threatening after being hitched off by one of his team, was particularly galling,

Last night, for the record, at the track, I wanted to see the meeting run to heat 15, it was entertaining enough in places, and it would have been nice to have seen 15 heats of speedway that I had payed for for a change. However, even without knowing of the discussions that were going on in the pits after heats 10 or 12, I wasn't too surprised to see it brought to a halt.

Standing out the rain under the main stand, to me it looked as if the rain was getting slightly heavier at heat 11, in the puddles forming on the dog track covers. As I mentioned briefly last night, watching it back on TV, the cameras made the conditions look much brighter than it actually was. I can see why people watching at home would think it wasn't as bad as some were making out. I agree that racing heat 11 was fine, but when you see heat 12 run in a time of over 72 seconds, it does indicate that something about the conditions wasn't right.

Coming back and watching on the recording seeing Nicholls saying it wasn't ideal after 10 and his obvious doubts when it was called at 12 when interviewed, was probably the main insight into what most riders in the pits would have been thinking. Cook saying he wanted to continue...after 3 ducks...give me a break. Probably was happy to continue because he knew he would be replaced by wright in heat 13.

So plenty of justification for the meeting to be called to a halt, by the ref/meeting steward/gormless puppet from the BSPA or Sky, yet Rosco is being portrayed (seemingly by those not there) as some sort of antichrist who has managed to singlehandedly demolish British speedway. Pick of the bunch being the stick hes getting for saying that he thought the rain was getting slightly heavier in a lighthearted conversation with Charlie. The girl employed by the broadcaster that wants to keep the action going for its viewers, disagreed. Funny that. The girl who all too often can barely string a cohesive sentence together in the form of some sort of slightly enlightening question, has suddenly become a fully fledged meteorologist according to those all to keen to partake in a bit of rosco bashing.

Particularly funny that a lot of the bitter comments are coming from BV fans, whose club was involved in the single most damaging and insulting speedway match broadcast on Sky against Poole last year, as well as "water bowser-gate".

Good to see Gustaffsson riding well, although he did do well against Belle Vue the other month too...so I'll be keeping my party poppers in my pocket, just for the moment for a few more matches.

OK, hands up, perhaps I thought Rosco is cleverer than he is. I mentioned his comments about the rain getting heavier during his interview after heat 10 because I thought he was being tactically clever and laying the ground to give a reason to call it off after heat 12. His comments followed a discussion off air with Charlie when he had made the same point which she challenged but still he felt the need to make it on air. Obviously, you don't think he is that bright. 😀 The real weather and visibility position was there for all to see in heat 11.

 

A bit pathetic, childish and irrelevant to raise the water bowser and Poole match last year. BV were not allowed to call off the Poole match and did not want it to go ahead.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Aces51

[ouch]

Yep see a patten. Aces v Poole, we want it off but officials says it's on. Swindon v Aces, we want it on but officials says it's off.

Great being an Ace in't it!

[jimmy jimmy]

The way around this is simple. You can only call off a match and let the result stand when it is impossible for the result to be any different to the one standing when the match is abandoned. To make it a little easier, you can assume that all 4 riders would finish the remaining races and ignore the 1 point losing bonus. So, in this case, if Swindon were 13 ahead with 3 races standing, then it's over.

[jeffster]

The way around this is simple. You can only call off a match and let the result stand when it is impossible for the result to be any different to the one standing when the match is abandoned. To make it a little easier, you can assume that all 4 riders would finish the remaining races and ignore the 1 point losing bonus. So, in this case, if Swindon were 13 ahead with 3 races standing, then it's over.

 

What a very simple and sound idea, which should be adopted, and in fact, should have been adopted years ago....

 

Unfortunately, its simplicity and the underlying logic, makes its unlikely to be adopted by the "powers that be", sadly

[Grachan]

The way around this is simple. You can only call off a match and let the result stand when it is impossible for the result to be any different to the one standing when the match is abandoned. To make it a little easier, you can assume that all 4 riders would finish the remaining races and ignore the 1 point losing bonus. So, in this case, if Swindon were 13 ahead with 3 races standing, then it's over.

 

I think the would be the logical way to go, although I'm sure this was introduced because of lost revenue with restaged matches and seasons where teams couldn't complete all their fixtures.

 

In a way, the 10 point cut off could be ok, but far too much is made of it. On Sky they don't shut up about the match being called at heat 10 whenever there is rain about. That and the comments of Zagar and Nicholls convinced Monday's match would be called off at heat 10 from watching on Sky, so was surprised it wasn't (as were the sky commentary team, who proceeded to go on as if all the riders heroes for a couple of races, and then express shock/horror when the meeting finally ended early).

 

I also don't agree it should be up to the meeting co-ordinator (or whatever he's called) to call a rain off. It should be down to the referee and nobody else. Obviously the ref should take the opinions of the teams and others into account, but whatever he/she decides should be the only outcome.

Edited May 28, 2014 by grachan

[B.V 72]

The way the weather is going in the U K these days the BSPA think that we should change to having an oval pond instead of a track and jet skis instead of bikes .The plan is to find a bunch of talented jet skiers and do away with the riders and that way none of the fixtures would clash with the gps,Danish championship,World under 21 meetings, euro meetings or any polish meetings leaving weekends open for any club that so wishes to run and that they could then make it a £10 sport.Only chance of a call off is if we have a long hot summer and there is a hose pipe ban.I have heard some dafter BSPA ideas.

Sods law Belle vue tried to give this new system a go last year riding against Pool but they were shot down in flames and deducted 3 points.

Edited May 28, 2014 by B.V 72

[sparkafag]

Having read through 300 odd posts of excuses, I still see no reason, why this meeting couldn't have run the full course. It doesn't matter if the heat times were slower, Buster once told me he could alter the track times by as much as 3 sec just by the preparation of the track. The issue here is raceability, and anybody who saw Ht 12 witnessed a track that was racable.

Years ago the promotions would have hurriedly completed the programme without ever thinking about such abandonment. Now, with so many rules that offer the opportunity, we have officials with too much power, dying to make these decisions, that does nothing but make them feel important.

 

God what a mess this sport is in. We're losing supporters by the day and nobody seem to care, decisions are always made for personal gains, And the good of the sport has disappeared with all the other worthy virtues..

 

 

It was evidently called off because the sport is risky enough at the best of times let alone when rider’s visibility is decreased.

 

The “throttle goes both ways” but asking riders to go around at half pace, with low visibility is both cheating the public and risking the riders safety.

 

I think that people forget that as well as being GP riders, the riders also have family’s and children that they probably think of when fans are expecting them to hurtle around in dangers conditions for the sake of another couple of minutes of “entertainment” if that is what you call riders risking their necks.

 

[orion]

No manager should criticise staff in front of others and certainly not in public because the risk is that it is humiliating and likely to destroy confidence and respect for the manager. It's a bit early after two good matches to claim anything has worked but regardless it is something you don't do if you have any respect for people.

A good manager will get the results without resorting to such tactics.

 

Of course it was Allen who made the decision. Rosco, to get the points was oblivious to or, unconcerned about short changing those there and those watching on TV when he put forward the argument that the match should be abandoned. This despite everyone being able to see that the track was raceable. Perhaps you don't think it was. In that case what happened after heat 12 to change things? Tatum didn't see that anything had changed

 

Attwood wanted the match to continue. Are you seriously telling us that Allen would have abandoned it if Rosco had said the same. In which case Rosco has to bear some responsibility for the decision. You can't feed the bullets and then hope to escape all responsibility.

That just your opinion Alex Ferguson oone of the all time great managers done it all the time at it worked for him and in this case it's work for Rosco ...A good Manger will used the best method to get the best out of people and as we have seen it worked a treat with Simon .

 

As been pointed to you before it not the track it was because the riders vision what was the problem and the majority or riders including Belle Vue riders wanted to call the match off and Ronnie Allen went with that . Rosco like when we were beating Brum wanted the match to be called off not sure why he should have to take any responsibily for putting riders safely first like has done all season winning or losing matches .

[topaz325]

Many Workington fans travelled to Berwick on Staurday night and were assured the meeting was on then entered the stadium and later were told it was off, it was obvious from the state of the track that it was never going to be on...................once again the public SHAFTED.

[Aces51]

That just your opinion Alex Ferguson oone of the all time great managers done it all the time at it worked for him and in this case it's work for Rosco ...A good Manger will used the best method to get the best out of people and as we have seen it worked a treat with Simon .

 

As been pointed to you before it not the track it was because the riders vision what was the problem and the majority or riders including Belle Vue riders wanted to call the match off and Ronnie Allen went with that . Rosco like when we were beating Brum wanted the match to be called off not sure why he should have to take any responsibily for putting riders safely first like has done all season winning or losing matches .

If vision was the problem how do you explain heat 11 and in fact, heat 12? Why do you think there has been such condemnation of the decision?

 

However, I do always want to be fair. I was going to say that in over 30 years of management and having read many management manuals and attended numerous management courses I had never heard anyone recommend humiliating staff in public to gain their respect and improve their performance. However, I thought before commenting further I would do some final research and I have to admit that I did find someone who recommend doing exactly what Rosco did. In fact they are not that far from Swindon. Perhaps that was the course Rosco attended.

 

For reference the details are;

 

Mr D Brent

School of Modern Management

Reading.

 

Apparently, one of his disciples has a very senior position at a call centre in Wales.

 

😁😁😁

Edited May 28, 2014 by Aces51

[orion]

If vision was the problem how do you explain heat 11 and in fact, heat 12? Why do you think there has been such condemnation of the decision?

 

However, I do always want to be fair. I was going to say that in over 30 years of management and having read many management manuals and attended numerous management courses I had never heard anyone recommend humiliating staff in public to gain their respect and improve their performance. However, I thought before commenting further I would do some final research and I have to admit that I did find someone who recommend doing exactly what Rosco did. In fact they are not that far from Swindon. Perhaps that was the course Rosco attended.

 

For reference the details are;

 

Mr D Brent

School of Modern Management

Reading.

 

Apparently, one of his disciples has a very senior position at a call centre in Wales.

 

Maybe Atwood and Morton the worst team manager of all time were reading the same books as you were ...As I told you before when have a record like Rosco has and it's so good he's been given the GB job don't really think you should question his man management skills .

 

In this case Simon has been mom twice in two meetings so it's worked a treat the results are there for all us to see .

Edited May 28, 2014 by orion

[Aces51]

Maybe Atwood and Morton the worst team manager of all time were reading the same books as you were ...As I told you before when have a record like Rosco has and it's so good he's been given the GB job don't really think you should question his man management skills .

 

In this case Simon has been mom twice in two meetings so it's worked a treat the results are there for all us to see .

No sense of humour then.

[orion]

No sense of humour then.

Yea.... did you miss the smiles ?

[orion]

Ferguson NEVER publicly criticised individual players of his own team.

 

Time will tell over Gustafson but two easy meetings (away at his favourite track and home v the worst 'away' team in the league) aren't a good indication of Rossiters powers of motivation. Given the money Swindon have spent on riders over the last 10 years it is baffling how they managed to not win the pokc more times?

And ever more Baffling how Belle Vue keep coming in the bottom two the amount wages they have pay riders in the last 10 years

[ghcooke]

The blog for the meeting is published at http://blunsdonblog.co.uk/?page_id=7328 and may help to inform discussion about the way the meeting was prepared for and why it came to an untimely end.

There's also a little bit for the character on Speedway Updates who called us "idiots" for watering the track mid afternoon. No one likes being called an "idiot" and I know I speak for track staff up and down the country who tear their hair out (assuming they have any left) at some of the ill informed comments posted about tracks and track preparation by those who have never been closer to a race track than the safety fence. I'm all in favour of freedom of speech but sometimes ....

[noggin]

An excellent read as usual and without the hard work of these guys, sometimes fruitless we wouldn't have any speedway.

Edited May 31, 2014 by noggin

[ghcooke]

An excellent read as usual and without the hard work of these guys, sometime fruitless we wouldn't have any speedway.

Cheers guys!

[Pirate Nick]

The blog for the meeting is published at http://blunsdonblog.co.uk/?page_id=7328 and may help to inform discussion about the way the meeting was prepared for and why it came to an untimely end. There's also a little bit for the character on Speedway Updates who called us "idiots" for watering the track mid afternoon. No one likes being called an "idiot" and I know I speak for track staff up and down the country who tear their hair out (assuming they have any left) at some of the ill informed comments posted about tracks and track preparation by those who have never been closer to a race track than the safety fence. I'm all in favour of freedom of speech but sometimes ....

Very interesting reading.