BritPete Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Poole came to Swindon and scored a 1-8 followed by a 1-5, and we went from controlling the match, to losing it. Now it's there turn to get stuffed by that rule. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 No meeting report from Steve Shovlar? Is it a case of waiting for the 2010 PO final report i wonder..................................... Waits for the excuses to roll. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedybee Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I'm so glad we went, if Bees fans are really boycotting Poole, then all I can say is, it was your loss! Edit, I forgot to mention Kenneth Hansen. without doubt MOM, brilliant to watch last night! We honestly questioned Havvy for putting him on the black and white, lordy, he shoved that right down our throats! Wish I'd known you were there, Jacques.. would have come and said hello Still cant stop replaying last night in my mind.. weird, dramatic, thrilling, drama-filled twists and turns and a huge amount of overtaking and close racing .. and more. Agree totally that any boycotting Bees fans lost out there... That was proper speedway, with the bonus of a result going our way. And Hansen.. what a star. MOM easily. Could hardly believe some of his moves out on the fence. Home supporters have only seen a glimpse of what this man is capable of, given a decent track. Worth the admission money alone. Mr Spectacular! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Firstly can I thank Dorset Delight and Jamie, Home Straight and Mrs HS for their company last night. What a night! We went, fully expecting to lose and lose big and at one stage we were. Then it all went a bit weird lol. I could hardly believe we pulled it back like we did. Ok, it was helped by the tacs , but Poole took their eye off the ball and let us win! We've been on the receiving end of them too and I've gone home fuming just like DD and HS did last night .. Seriously though, it was actually my first visit to Poole and I really enjoyed it. The stadium is good, the track was fab, good facilities, good company... We were approached be several Poole fans after the meeting, including Starman that were so gracious and said that we deserved to win! Yes it's true, he said it!! I'm so glad we went, if Bees fans are really boycotting Poole, then all I can say is, it was your loss! Poole, see you in the play offs Edit, I forgot to mention Kenneth Hansen. without doubt MOM, brilliant to watch last night! We honestly questioned Havvy for putting him on the black and white, lordy, he shoved that right down our throats! Nice to meet you Jacques, see, im not that bad really, am I... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Awww.. spinning the Jon Cook woe is me record. The TR can have a massive impact upon the racing. It can lift the spirits of the away team and give them momentum in the meeting, which results in more effort and better racing. I've seen it many times. Or you can do away with it and have the losing team give up 5 or 6 heats in and go through the motions. Not the Jon Cook record at all. If the TR rule never existed it would still have been a great fight back from Cov tp take a league point and the fans would still be happy with a good speedway meeting. Either you have a fair competition (well as best you can in speedway) or you have a circus with various gimmicks thrown in . It amazes me that people get heated up if someone gets a guest who is a track specialist or an advantage because someone gets away with rolling or some some other advantage is gained but having a totally artificial rule to allow a team to score three points that are not available to the opponents is apparently a good idea. The fact that there is nothing comparable in any other sport speaks for itself. Actually it's not just Jon Cook, according to you CVS is not enamoured with it either but Sky are calling the shots. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Not the Jon Cook record at all. If the TR rule never existed it would still have been a great fight back from Cov tp take a league point and the fans would still be happy with a good speedway meeting. Either you have a fair competition (well as best you can in speedway) or you have a circus with various gimmicks thrown in . It amazes me that people get heated up if someone gets a guest who is a track specialist or an advantage because someone gets away with rolling or some some other advantage is gained but having a totally artificial rule to allow a team to score three points that are not available to the opponents is apparently a good idea. The fact that there is nothing comparable in any other sport speaks for itself. Actually it's not just Jon Cook, according to you CVS is not enamoured with it either but Sky are calling the shots. You're not grasping it. The fight back and indeed many others I have seen over the years may never have happened. A successful tac ride galvanises a team, gives them momentum and added incentive to go for it. Without them the match can just drift along to its conclusion.. not in all cases I grant you, but in many it would. As for 'not getting' that folk complain about rolling starts.. .. rolling starts are illegal... tac rides are legal. You see the difference? There is no other sport comparable to speedway, so whether something is used in other sports or not is irrelevant. I highly doubt Sky are 'calling the shots' either. The tac ride was brought in to reduce costs, not because of Sky. Sky is a convenient excuse now for the promoters to hide behind. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I highly doubt Sky are 'calling the shots' either. The tac ride was brought in to reduce costs, not because of Sky. Sky is a convenient excuse now for the promoters to hide behind. I thought SKY wanted to keep the TR because of keeping things close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
home straight Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Awww.. spinning the Jon Cook woe is me record. The TR can have a massive impact upon the racing. It can lift the spirits of the away team and give them momentum in the meeting, which results in more effort and better racing. I've seen it many times. Or you can do away with it and have the losing team give up 5 or 6 heats in and go through the motions. Spot on. One team gaining a 7 point advantage in one heat can have a massive effect on the psyche of both teams. Happens all the time. Last night I hated it with a passion, but when it goes for you it's brill. It's part of the sport now, and there's no doubt it can revive life into a match that looks like it's all over by heat ten, last night being a case in point. Long live the tactical rule...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) I thought SKY wanted to keep the TR because of keeping things close? Well, the old tactical sub rule kept things even closer, so that's a bit of a dumb reason for wanting to keep it.. Remember it was introduced due to costs many years ago.. now promoters are telling us "we're only keeping it because of Sky".. perhaps their need to cut costs is no longer there... Edited May 22, 2014 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Lookin at this result a little closer have to say its very harsh on poole, how often do you score 47 Points at home and still lose ? All there team scored how you would expect possibly magic could of added a little more and they still come away with nothing, dont think they should blame riders and look for whos fault it was more just except sometimes in sport you lose no matter what your team does. That's the problem though as Kyle is not scoring what he was before his injury & with a limited points total possible from the other reserve it means at least 3 of the top 5 have to hit 10 points or 1 has to be close to a maximum to win a meeting easily. Might be time to swap Magic & Shamek round as Magic is struggling in Heat 13 & Shamek is the better rider. Edited May 22, 2014 by Crazy robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 You're not grasping it. The fight back and indeed many others I have seen over the years may never have happened. A successful tac ride galvanises a team, gives them momentum and added incentive to go for it. Without them the match can just drift along to its conclusion.. not in all cases I grant you, but in many it would. As for 'not getting' that folk complain about rolling starts.. .. rolling starts are illegal... tac rides are legal. You see the difference? There is no other sport comparable to speedway, so whether something is used in other sports or not is irrelevant. I highly doubt Sky are 'calling the shots' either. The tac ride was brought in to reduce costs, not because of Sky. Sky is a convenient excuse now for the promoters to hide behind. A t/r can at best bring scores closer on a single match basis but if the league is to be regarded as a serious and fair competition then it is incongruous that team A should scrape into the play offs by reason of a point or two achieved by the TR rule while team B misses out because they have generally kept scores closer and not had the opportunity of the bonus points that the T/R offers. As I said, you either have a serious competition or you have a circus designed to entertain come what may. Maybe you just like circuses. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want but my preference is for a level playing field over the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 No meeting report from Steve Shovlar? Is it a case of waiting for the 2010 PO final report i wonder..................................... Waits for the excuses to roll. He's worried he may say summat that he may regret later, either that or he's on his hols! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 A t/r can at best bring scores closer on a single match basis but if the league is to be regarded as a serious and fair competition then it is incongruous that team A should scrape into the play offs by reason of a point or two achieved by the TR rule while team B misses out because they have generally kept scores closer and not had the opportunity of the bonus points that the T/R offers. As I said, you either have a serious competition or you have a circus designed to entertain come what may. Maybe you just like circuses. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want but my preference is for a level playing field over the season. So by your definition the league has never been a serious and fair competition then, as tacticals have been around in one form or another for 50+ years. Let's also remember that the current tacticals provide the least advantage to a losing team of any rule before them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 The double points tactical ride facility was presumably introduced to keep the scores closer and therefore maintain more interest for as long as possible but sometimes teams taking advantage of this wins. This is fine, but I do not think they should gain maximum league match points as a result. If, by deducting the additional race points gained, which in this case is 5, the result would have been a 47-43 win for Poole, then they deserve a losing team's point with Coventry being given 2 and not the full 3. Coventry didn't though did they? The maximum is 4 and we got 3......I think. ........TesarRacing........ Personally, knowing Mick Horton I think he will stick with this team. This is the man that ditched the whole 2013 team so who knows. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 He's worried he may say summat that he may regret later, either that or he's on his hols! He was there, unless of course he has a doppleganger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) So by your definition the league has never been a serious and fair competition then, as tacticals have been around in one form or another for 50+ years. Let's also remember that the current tacticals provide the least advantage to a losing team of any rule before them. I have never thought the tacticals were particularly good idea, but in the old days before play- offs and before the present system of league poinjts the effect was limited. It was a race for the league title and that was it. For teams finishing third or belie in the league it really didn't matter too much if things went a against them and they finished say seventh instead lofty fourth. These days it is far more intense because with the play offs, finishing fourth in the league is as important as finishing to and frequently there are only a few points separating the contenders for fourth place. All this is compounded by the present system of league points which means that a visiting team finishing within six points of the home team still get a point. Personally I quite like the play-offs and I am very much in favour of the league scoring system but my take on it is that these developments mean the T/R has had its day, and I would rather see it consigned to history.. Edited May 22, 2014 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytsejam Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Regardless of whether the T/R is fair or not (and it often isn't!!) surely before much longer a team manager somewhere is going to develop a brain cell and tell his riders that when you go out in heat 9 or 10 and are 8 points (or even 10 if one T/R has already been used) ahead, that you DON'T then win a race 4-2 or 5-1 to extend the lead to 10 or 12 points so that a(nother) T/R can be used! At that stage of the meeting, its really the only remotely realistic chance the team who are losing have of winning the meeting, so why on earth give them that potential lifeline!!....2 teams, just this week (Lakeside and Poole), would not have lost their meetings if they had used a bit of common sense in heats 9 and/or 10!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 It's just not right to nominate a rider to score double because they are being fairly beaten, that's always been the complaint. The TS would still penalise a team for winning but is far more credible than 6 points for the win, because you are losing. As others state, when it's works for your team you take it (as I did in 2006), when it's against you it's a joke®. None of us like it in the WTC but that's TS and TR. We all like a close meeting but double points - it's a knockout!!! Why should teams / riders give up if a meeting is beyond them? What do points make? I would guess many of today's riders are motivated by their pay packet rather than the teams success. Make them earn it. I know, here we go again. Well done Coventry for taking advantage of the rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Regardless of whether the T/R is fair or not (and it often isn't!!) surely before much longer a team manager somewhere is going to develop a brain cell and tell his riders that when you go out in heat 9 or 10 and are 8 points (or even 10 if one T/R has already been used) ahead, that you DON'T then win a race 4-2 or 5-1 to extend the lead to 10 or 12 points so that a(nother) T/R can be used! At that stage of the meeting, its really the only remotely realistic chance the team who are losing have of winning the meeting, so why on earth give them that potential lifeline!!....2 teams, just this week (Lakeside and Poole), would not have lost their meetings if they had used a bit of common sense in heats 9 and/or 10!! That's what I thought, but the Lakeside result would've been 44-45 (no change) surprisingly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 It makes me laugh whne people say, "dont go far enough ahead to us a TR". You drop a point, your opponents gain a points. So thats a 2 point difference. You give away two points to maybe stop 3 points. Just go all out to win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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