Starman2006 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) The referee was neutral. Glasgow (his nearest track) were not represented, so that may be the reason he was appointed? How can he be Neutral, he came from fecking scotland. how many clubs came from the midlands?, careful now, thats taxing the brain a bit... And people call me an idiot. Clearly there are bigger ones on here than me with all the dross your all coming out with... ive never heard so many idiotic posts from many so called fans. Clearly Dumb and Dumber and Dumber and Dumber would be very appropriate for many on here. Thick as two short planks doesn't come close... That includes the Referee who officiated last Friday. keep posting starman. The more you say the the dumber you come across as Really, then why don't you come and introduce yourself to me, come with an open mind and you might well change your opinion. Edited July 14, 2014 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutz Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 How can he be Neutral, he came from fecking scotland. how many clubs came from the midlands?, careful now, thats taxing the brain a bit... And people call me an idiot. Clearly there are bigger ones on here than me with all the dross your all coming out with... ive never heard so many idiotic posts from many so called fans. Clearly Dumb and Dumber and Dumber and Dumber would be very appropriate for many on here. Thick as two short planks doesn't come close... That includes the Referee who officiated last Friday. So you're now insinuating that the referee was biased on the grounds of his patriality? Surely you're questioning his ability to referee a meeting and to my mind, bordering on slanderous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 So you're now insinuating that the referee was biased on the grounds of his patriality? Surely you're questioning his ability to referee a meeting and to my mind, bordering on slanderous! Can't win with you lot can we. He made the wrong decision, many on here have also stated that fact. im finished with this dam thread, clearly me and many others are wasting their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Can't win with you lot can we. He made the wrong decision, many on here have also stated that fact. im finished with this dam thread, clearly me and many others are wasting their time. many others also stated it was the right decision but you obviously never seen those posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young51 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 How can he be Neutral, he came from fecking scotland. how many clubs came from the midlands?, careful now, thats taxing the brain a bit... And people call me an idiot. Clearly there are bigger ones on here than me with all the dross your all coming out with... ive never heard so many idiotic posts from many so called fans. Clearly Dumb and Dumber and Dumber and Dumber would be very appropriate for many on here. Thick as two short planks doesn't come close... That includes the Referee who officiated last Friday. Really, then why don't you come and introduce yourself to me, come with an open mind and you might well change your opinion. I wouldn't bet on that one Starman.. Seeing some of the drivel spouting forth from you about Friday's meeting i'd have a wee rethink You said you weren't calling Jim Mc a cheat a few posts ago..and then you keep banging on about the impossibility of him being neutral..Surely even you can see where i'm going with this? it was refreshing to see a ref having the integrity to follow the rulebook,and not bottle it just because it doesn't suit sore losers like yourself and some other dummy spitters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I never called you an idiot Starman - I called you an AAA+ idiot and I stand by that. The vast majority agreed that the decision was as per the rule book. But a few didn't like the rule book being used. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orderly Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have been going to speedway for many years, back then they had the 30 yard rule where by all riders had to stay in their lane until they reached the 30 yard marker but now that this rule has gone all the riders merge into the race line from the tapes which will result that there could be first bend bunching but as in the race in question the riders had reached the second bend when one rider parted company with his bike and as commented by the rider "Max didn't do anything wrong, he didn't touch me" which means that Max was blameless for this accident and the referee was correct in excluding that rider. As for the comment that because it was a pairs final that the offending rider should be allowed to restart the race from the 15mtr line as far as I see it the race was started in the first instance with 2 riders from each team, one rider fell and he was judged as the cause of the stoppage and excluded from the rerun so why should the opposing team be penalised by having to race against a rider that was fresh and was mounted on a machine with a near new tire 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boobs Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 How can he be Neutral, he came from fecking scotland. Therefore, you want a referee from where, England? Who would -- in your mind -- therefore not be biased towards the nine English pairings? (This thread at times has been a joy to read. So many posts, so few brain-cells) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffeboy Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I thought it was shocking and surely a worse advert for the sport than anything that happened on the track to see a mass exodus of supporters because they felt aggrieved at a decision that went against them! Surely the way Oliver Allen performed throughout the whole event, warranted them to stay and also to applaud the runners up on the podium? Poor indeed by the home supporters... However, I'd surmise that you'd lose more supporters if they were aware that a referee didn't apply the rules because it was the best thing to do!! The system works perfectly well throughout pairs events throughout Europe. Why change it because you don't agree with the decision of the initial running of this one final??!!! To my mind Sam also played his part of his pairing by ensuring they completed the job in the rerun by looking after his partner... You don't have to be riding at full throttle all the time to be working together as a team. To me, the title of the Pairs indicates 2 riders racing together as a pair - partnership in order to lift the title. But seriously? Are you indicating that irrespective of what happens during a race, you'd always have 4 riders in there??? Would it not be even more laughable for a newbie to try and understand that a rider has been excluded correctly in conjunction with the rulebook - but hey, lets have someone replace him just to keep 2 people per team always in the race! Picture a guy being sent-off in the World cup final for diving but it's ok, because you can send on a substitute to take his place??!!!! Total rubbish! There should be no option available to a rider that commits an infringement that forces a rerun other riders would use it to their advantage to get away with things that they currently can't. Probably as good as it would've been if Morris hadn't have chosen the path he did in the initial running and not come down... I don't get all this "He couldn't have changed his line" rubbish... He had the entire turns 1 and 2 to realise that Fricke was always heading for the fast outside line... If he'd have watched the Semi final against Redcar, he'd have known that this was the line that Fricke was using to his advantage. Allen changed lines abruptly in the second semi-final to pass the Comets so Morris could've with a quicker reaction rather than going for the High wide and handsome option round the boards. Reading between the lines, what you're saying is that it should've been rerun as many times as it would take until Somerset gained an advantage!!! Really? I mean, really??!!!! Why let the rules get in the way of a home win which most outside of Edinburgh would've been so pleased with??!!!! Just because it's a final, doesn't mean that separate rules apply??!!! Unless you're saying that Common sense should be a rule? Ah yes, lets put a rule in there that's a grey area and at the discretion of the referee??!!!! That's all we need... Another point that is open what mood the referee is in!!! At the moment, there is a rulebook that's written down in black and white. The riders know it, the management know it, the referee knows it. As for him using his brain and assessing the importance of the situation? This comment stinks of home bias. The situation was as important to Edinburgh as it was to Somerset. If Nicki Pedersen had've been excluded (if he were in that position) then it would still have been the wrong decision - only we'd be talking about Nicki's reputation going against him. Only a biased referee would've excluded Max. If you watch the replays, there was still room for Morris to have stayed upright (maybe not passed Max on the 2nd turn but the race is over 4 laps remember Mr Morris...)... He came down at the end of the airfence... Max never went out to the fence down the back straight as he was heading for the inside to challenge Allen into turn 3... Blimey Nutz this is nearly a whole page, just a few points in reply. The mass exodus of home supporters when Nick was excluded, no there was a mass exodus of supporters from all teams as they new that the last race would now be pointless . Your point about the scoring system is valid enough,but maybe it might be better if (just a thought) if we reverted in the future to 3210 so that in future events this sort of carry on would not happen again. My post about trying to make sure somehow that there are always 4 riders in a Pairs heat was an opinion/ idea for fellow posters to debate, thank you for telling me that you think that is" total rubbish", very constructive. Your comparison of a speedway race with someone diving in football was confusing, two totally different genres. At no time did I ever think the referee was anything less than straight as a die and made a decision based on what he saw, although you did say that only a "biased referee" would have excluded Max. But what if that was how he saw it, would that have then made him biased towards Somerset? Finally where I speculated that the last heat "could" have been quite good with Nick going off 15,you start going on about the race being rerun over and over again till Somerset win, you don`t really believe that would ever happen , and then you start sort of giving advice to Nick as to how he should have run his race, sorry mate that is rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Can't win with you lot can we. He made the wrong decision, many on here have also stated that fact. im finished with this dam thread, clearly me and many others are wasting their time. I think you should show some integrity like your team manager Garry May who said a decision had to be made and unfortunately it didn't go our way and then went on to congratulate Edinburgh. You really are spitting your dummy out and acting like a spoilt child because posters aren't taking your side of the story. I didn't want either of you to win but the correct decision was made by the ref. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffeboy Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Therefore, you want a referee from where, England? Who would -- in your mind -- therefore not be biased towards the nine English pairings? (This thread at times has been a joy to read. So many posts, so few brain-cells) Ha ha thank you BOOBS lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Jim Mcgregor was the referee at Workington last night and he warned and excluded riders for delaying the dtart, although he did make one decision that i did disagree with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I never called you an idiot Starman - I called you an AAA+ idiot and I stand by that. The vast majority agreed that the decision was as per the rule book. But a few didn't like the rule book being used. Have you read the rule book? I haven't and don't think many have. I have been told that the rule is that the ref disqualifies the rider who was the main cause of the stoppage, but if it was a racing incident and the ref can't apportion blame then he could have all four back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Blimey Nutz this is nearly a whole page, just a few points in reply. The mass exodus of home supporters when Nick was excluded, no there was a mass exodus of supporters from all teams as they new that the last race would now be pointless . Your point about the scoring system is valid enough,but maybe it might be better if (just a thought) if we reverted in the future to 3210 so that in future events this sort of carry on would not happen again. My post about trying to make sure somehow that there are always 4 riders in a Pairs heat was an opinion/ idea for fellow posters to debate, thank you for telling me that you think that is" total rubbish", very constructive. Your comparison of a speedway race with someone diving in football was confusing, two totally different genres. At no time did I ever think the referee was anything less than straight as a die and made a decision based on what he saw, although you did say that only a "biased referee" would have excluded Max. But what if that was how he saw it, would that have then made him biased towards Somerset? Finally where I speculated that the last heat "could" have been quite good with Nick going off 15,you start going on about the race being rerun over and over again till Somerset win, you don`t really believe that would ever happen , and then you start sort of giving advice to Nick as to how he should have run his race, sorry mate that is rubbish. Good post !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Have you read the rule book? I haven't and don't think many have. I have been told that the rule is that the ref disqualifies the rider who was the main cause of the stoppage, but if it was a racing incident and the ref can't apportion blame then he could have all four back. Yes I've read a fair amount of it. It's here if you want to have a go - http://www.scbgb.co.uk/pdf/regulations/2014%20SPEEDWAY%20REGULATIONS.pdf I don't know anything about "racing incident". 15.5.1 states "Having stopped the Heat, the Referee shall disqualify the Rider, who in his/her opinion; a) is deemed to be the primary cause of the stoppage or by indulging in foul, unfair, dangerous or reckless conduct has jeopardised the fair chance of one or more opponents. The Referee may, depending upon the circumstances, disqualify the Rider from the remainder of the Meeting and if it is a Team Meeting, may not be replaced in any subsequent heat in which s/he is programmed or would otherwise have been eligible to appear". Nothing in there about "can't apportion blame". Anyway the ref could and did apportion blame and disqualified the rider who he deemed to be the primary cause of the stoppage. Nothing in there about doing it differently because it was on telly or might bang a couple of more nails into a coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutz Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Can't win with you lot can we. He made the wrong decision, many on here have also stated that fact. im finished with this dam thread, clearly me and many others are wasting their time. So it's a fact he made the wrong decision? Huh? The only thing that is a fact, is that he applied the rule book to make his decision... Mind you, lets not allow fact to get in the way of people's opinion, huh?!!! Have you read the rule book? I haven't and don't think many have. I have been told that the rule is that the ref disqualifies the rider who was the main cause of the stoppage, but if it was a racing incident and the ref can't apportion blame then he could have all four back. Can you give me one instance where a race has been rerun with all 4 after a racing incident occurred after the 2nd bend?? Your point about the scoring system is valid enough,but maybe it might be better if (just a thought) if we reverted in the future to 3210 so that in future events this sort of carry on would not happen again. My post about trying to make sure somehow that there are always 4 riders in a Pairs heat was an opinion/ idea for fellow posters to debate, thank you for telling me that you think that is" total rubbish", very constructive. Your comparison of a speedway race with someone diving in football was confusing, two totally different genres. At no time did I ever think the referee was anything less than straight as a die and made a decision based on what he saw, although you did say that only a "biased referee" would have excluded Max. But what if that was how he saw it, would that have then made him biased towards Somerset? Finally where I speculated that the last heat "could" have been quite good with Nick going off 15,you start going on about the race being rerun over and over again till Somerset win, you don`t really believe that would ever happen , and then you start sort of giving advice to Nick as to how he should have run his race, sorry mate that is rubbish. i admit I did get carried away a little;) 1) The whole point of the Pairs meeting (a meeting where this scoring system is used successfully throughout the world) is to promote team-riding. If you do away with the 4-3-2-0 scoring system, it's not a Pairs meeting anymore - it's a let's get to the front at all cost meeting to ensure the 3pts. Why change something that isn't broken? 2) The total rubbish comment was my opinion which I stand by... I offered constructive comments in some of the other replies. Maybe the genre of Speedway/Football differ greatly but the principal of what we're talking about is still the same. 3) If that is how the referee saw it, then he's using the grey area that I talked about as he'd be using his discretion rather than applying the rule book. That's what I was alluding to. 4) I don't believe the race would be rerun over and over again until Somerset won - but reading a lot of posts on here, some from people who aren't just supporters, then it's like the way it should've happened - as if Somerset deserved the win... Don't get me wrong, they were the best through the groups and the semi but it's all about the final - both teams know that. I also never gave Nick advice about how he races!! I'd never expect him to tell me how to do my job... I merely said that he had other options that other riders in previous races had used... He chose not to mirror what Oliver Allen done in the semi but chose to go for the blast. It didn't work for him. Edited July 14, 2014 by Nutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orderly Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Can't win with you lot can we. He made the wrong decision, many on here have also stated that fact. im finished with this dam thread, clearly me and many others are wasting their time. The rules are clear enough if the race is stopped because that rider fell on his own accord , and that was confirmed by Mr Morris then that rider will be excluded from the rerun. and no you will never win against the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffeboy Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 So it's a fact he made the wrong decision? Huh? The only thing that is a fact, is that he applied the rule book to make his decision... Mind you, lets not allow fact to get in the way of people's opinion, huh?!!! Can you give me one instance where a race has been rerun with all 4 after a racing incident occurred after the 2nd bend?? i admit I did get carried away a little;) 1) The whole point of the Pairs meeting (a meeting where this scoring system is used successfully throughout the world) is to promote team-riding. If you do away with the 4-3-2-0 scoring system, it's not a Pairs meeting anymore - it's a let's get to the front at all cost meeting to ensure the 3pts. Why change something that isn't broken? 2) The total rubbish comment was my opinion which I stand by... I offered constructive comments in some of the other replies. Maybe the genre of Speedway/Football differ greatly but the principal of what we're talking about is still the same. 3) If that is how the referee saw it, then he's using the grey area that I talked about as he'd be using his discretion rather than applying the rule book. That's what I was alluding to. 4) I don't believe the race would be rerun over and over again until Somerset won - but reading a lot of posts on here, some from people who aren't just supporters, then it's like the way it should've happened - as if Somerset deserved the win... Don't get me wrong, they were the best through the groups and the semi but it's all about the final - both teams know that. I also never gave Nick advice about how he races!! I'd never expect him to tell me how to do my job... I merely said that he had other options that other riders in previous races had used... He chose not to mirror what Oliver Allen done in the semi but chose to go for the blast. It didn't work for him. Yes I think you did get a bit carried away but never mind lol. On point 1 I did say you had a valid point, but pairs or not if you win you still need to get your partner into at least third to get an advantage,so team riding would come into play by trying to slow the race down. On point 2 ,I totally agree with everyone having their own opinion ( sometimes quite bizarre ),However that is there opinion no matter how crazy it may seem to you, I just personally do not think it is right to rubbish it. On point 3 , I can`t comment on that because I`m not 100% sure where you are coming from! doh. On point 4 I honestly do not think it was anything to do with people hoping Somerset would win eventually although undoubtedly some did, I think they just wanted to see a race between the two best pairs to finish off a good night in brilliant weather. However the advice to Nick bit where you say " He should have done this,and should have done that, watched the semi and watched Allen do this" it did read a bit like that . Still all good fun and nice talking to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekimba Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Starman please read the conversation between Nutz and Cliffeboy, that is how to debate something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalan Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I was stood on the centre green and instantly said Nick was out. Referee made his mind up and excluded him rightly or wrongly (right in my view). As Garry May keeps telling everyone it's gone now so forget it and move on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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