Bryn Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) In terms of placings in heat 15 last night, good to see that one person or indeed maybe more, can see the chalk finishing line clearly from the back straight as others apparently could from the pits! I was sat next to the ref in the officials' box and the said ref called out, 'White, Blue, Yellow" as they crossed that said chalk line. It WAS close but that's how the ref called it - end of story eh? Edited May 10, 2014 by Bryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) I thought John Cook's comments regarding the tactical ride rule were interesting. He says he hates the rule and it's a stupid one. He also suggested that he might instruct Neil Vatcher not to use the rule even when we are elligable to do so. Whilst I applaud the sentiment, it would be awful if we missed out on the play offs by the odd point if we'd thrown such points away by taking a moral stand. Chalk this one up next to Peter Adams 'Pawlicki needs to learn English' in the Most ridiculous statements of the season book. How many years have we have the tactical ride rule now? Yet now Cook pipes up all of a sudden he 'might' instruct his team not to use it. Of course he will .Garbage comment from Cook. Edited May 10, 2014 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Chalk this one up next to Peter Adams 'Pawlicki needs to learn English' in the Most ridiculous statements of the season book. How many years have we have the tactical ride rule now? Yet now Cook pipes up all of a sudden he 'might' instruct his team not to use it. Of course he will .Garbage comment from Cook. In fairness, he's complained about the rule for a long time. Whether he'll refuse to use it or not, I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 In terms of placings in heat 15 last night, good to see that one person or indeed maybe more, can see the chalk finishing line clearly from the back straight as others apparently could from the pits! I was sat next to the ref in the officials' box and the said ref called out, 'White, Blue, Yellow" as they crossed that said chalk line. It WAS close but that's how the ref called it - end of story eh? Who said anything about seeing the chalk finishing line? When you are in line with posts (between which the line runs) you do not need to. The referee cannot concentrate on the line alone - he is watching the approach (as he has to in case anything occurs) and gets but the merest glimpse of the 'finish'. From the back straight you get the whole picture without having to shift your focus. It was a brave effort by Scott but everyone around me had filled in their programmes as a 5 - 1 to Wolves. Bryn - just because the referee calls it so doesn't mean he/she actually got it right! In fairness, he's complained about the rule for a long time. Whether he'll refuse to use it or not, I'm not sure. He needs to explain why then it is still in place! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 In fairness, he's complained about the rule for a long time. Whether he'll refuse to use it or not, I'm not sure. Yes, usually after someone has used it against him. Yet to see him bleat about it after Lakeside have used it though In terms of placings in heat 15 last night, good to see that one person or indeed maybe more, can see the chalk finishing line clearly from the back straight as others apparently could from the pits! I was sat next to the ref in the officials' box and the said ref called out, 'White, Blue, Yellow" as they crossed that said chalk line. It WAS close but that's how the ref called it - end of story eh? I really don't get this post at all. So you're telling us the ref's opinion was the same as the result he declared.. well I never! Others (Lakeside fans) it seemed saw it differently hence it being mentioned and discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Who said anything about seeing the chalk finishing line? When you are in line with posts (between which the line runs) you do not need to. The referee cannot concentrate on the line alone - he is watching the approach (as he has to in case anything occurs) and gets but the merest glimpse of the 'finish'. From the back straight you get the whole picture without having to shift your focus. It was a brave effort by Scott but everyone around me had filled in their programmes as a 5 - 1 to Wolves. Bryn - just because the referee calls it so doesn't mean he/she actually got it right! He needs to explain why then it is still in place! I think the double points was bought following a request from sky who wanted to end run away scores and keep the meetings close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think the double points was bought following a request from sky who wanted to end run away scores and keep the meetings close. I believe you are right but Sky no longer sponsor the EL and just broadcast meetings now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think the double points was bought following a request from sky who wanted to end run away scores and keep the meetings close. So they requested a rule that would increase run away scores and give less of a chance for meetings to be close?? The rules was introduced as a cost cutting measure.. as most rules seem to be in speedway in the modern era. It meant that they didn't have to pay the top riders extra points money when they took a tac sub ride. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueherb777 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I say good on Cook for saying it is a stupid rule.Never liked it.Pity more within Speedway do not say the same. Well done Ben for another great night and well done Lakeside. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I say good on Cook for saying it is a stupid rule.Never liked it.Pity more within Speedway do not say the same. When he starts bleating after Lakeside have gained 6pts, then he might have some credence. Until then, he's just crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 When he starts bleating after Lakeside have gained 6pts, then he might have some credence. Until then, he's just crying. Give credit where it's due. He may have been using hyperbole to make a point but he has been making public comment for some time stating his opposition to the T R rule, so if nothing else we at least know where he stands on this. No other EL promoter seems to be prepared to nail their colours to the mast so we don't know which of them are responsible for perpetuating this rule which is deeply unpopular amongst the majority of the fans and ridiculously unfair in any logical sporting context. Rather than finding fault with Cooks attempts to bring the debate into the open your time would be better employed asking your own promotion to ste their position on this ridiculous rule so that we, the fans, get an idea of who is responsible for perpetuating it. Who said anything about seeing the chalk finishing line? When you are in line with posts (between which the line runs) you do not need to. The referee cannot concentrate on the line alone - he is watching the approach (as he has to in case anything occurs) and gets but the merest glimpse of the 'finish'. From the back straight you get the whole picture without having to shift your focus. It was a brave effort by Scott but everyone around me had filled in their programmes as a 5 - 1 to Wolves. e! Have you ever wondered why the refs box is above and adjacent to the start/finish line, and not on the back straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Give credit where it's due. He may have been using hyperbole to make a point but he has been making public comment for some time stating his opposition to the T R rule, so if nothing else we at least know where he stands on this. No other EL promoter seems to be prepared to nail their colours to the mast so we don't know which of them are responsible for perpetuating this rule which is deeply unpopular amongst the majority of the fans and ridiculously unfair in any logical sporting context. Rather than finding fault with Cooks attempts to bring the debate into the open your time would be better employed asking your own promotion to ste their position on this ridiculous rule so that we, the fans, get an idea of who is responsible for perpetuating it. For some reason I was under the impression that it was Len Silver,s idea, it's surely a no brainier to most people that it was brought in to save money. To be fair it's not the only half brain rule we have, most of the rulebook needs ditching, but I have never seen a Cook propose anywhere that we scrap it perhaps the vice chair should, or is it just the usual crap story filling a hole in the programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 So they requested a rule that would increase run away scores and give less of a chance for meetings to be close?? The rules was introduced as a cost cutting measure.. as most rules seem to be in speedway in the modern era. It meant that they didn't have to pay the top riders extra points money when they took a tac sub ride. Scott Nicholls costing Ippo a fortune if memory serves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Give credit where it's due. He may have been using hyperbole to make a point but he has been making public comment for some time stating his opposition to the T R rule, so if nothing else we at least know where he stands on this. No other EL promoter seems to be prepared to nail their colours to the mast so we don't know which of them are responsible for perpetuating this rule which is deeply unpopular amongst the majority of the fans and ridiculously unfair in any logical sporting context. Rather than finding fault with Cooks attempts to bring the debate into the open your time would be better employed asking your own promotion to ste their position on this ridiculous rule so that we, the fans, get an idea of who is responsible for perpetuating it. Have you ever wondered why the refs box is above and adjacent to the start/finish line, and not on the back straight? I will stay polite. I am not for one moment advocating the 'box' would be better positioned on the back straight. If you read my post carefully, (words often used by yourself) you will see why, in my opinion, my viewpoint had advantages over that of the referee on this occasion. You are, of course entitled to your opinion but I don't appreciate the sarcasm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 For some reason I was under the impression that it was Len Silver,s idea, it's surely a no brainier to most people that it was brought in to save money. To be fair it's not the only half brain rule we have, most of the rulebook needs ditching, but I have never seen a Cook propose anywhere that we scrap it perhaps the vice chair should, or is it just the usual crap story filling a hole in the programme. He was quoted on the Lakeside website just prior to last years AGM as saying that the TR rule needs to be abolished at the AGM but he obviously got outvoted by some or all of the others. Maybe the precarious state of the TV deal at that stage meant some of them got cold feet and that's possibly why they modified it rather than abolished it completely. As you say it was clearly brought in to save money but the mystery is why it was brought in at all because the same amount of money would be saved by having all riders on their programmed rides, no tactical substitutes and a straight 3-2-1-0 scoring system in every race.I will stay polite. I am not for one moment advocating the 'box' would be better positioned on the back straight. If you read my post carefully, (words often used by yourself) you will see why, in my opinion, my viewpoint had advantages over that of the referee on this occasion. You are, of course entitled to your opinion but I don't appreciate the sarcasm! Sarcasm unintended but the point being made is that the refs box has the best view on the track and people viewing from the other side may think they see the result differently to the ref but it's only a judgment call not fact . This is not the first time people on the back straight have called the result different to the ref but I have all the DVD's of every home match for the last 6 or 7 years and the camera and replays have always shown the ref to be correct on race results even though certain other decisions elsewhere on the track are at times questionable. The DVD of this one should be available in a couple of weeks and if the referee called it wrong I'll post on here and say so, but based on past results the camera is more likely to confirm the ref's decision . We shall see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 When Jon Cook comes on the mic at Lakeside bleating because a team has taken 6pts of his side he is simply appeasing his fans. What he then does and says in a behind closed doors BSPA meeting is a completely different matter. We already know he's viewed by certain promoters on the South Coast as a complete and utter pushover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 When Jon Cook comes on the mic at Lakeside bleating because a team has taken 6pts of his side he is simply appeasing his fans. What he then does and says in a behind closed doors BSPA meeting is a completely different matter. We already know he's viewed by certain promoters on the South Coast as a complete and utter pushover. When Jon Cook comes on the mic at Lakeside bleating because a team has taken 6pts of his side he is simply appeasing his fans. What he then does and says in a behind closed doors BSPA meeting is a completely different matter. We already know he's viewed by certain promoters on the South Coast as a complete and utter pushover. You are missing the point completely. The point ,quite simply, is that Jon Cook has on more than one occasion publicly stated his view on the TR rule which is more than any other promotion has done. If you were to canvass opinion from the Wolves promotion And other fans put the point to their own promotion then we would all know who is responsible for maintaining a rule which is deeply unpopular with the vast majority of fans. Quite why you wish to find fault with Cook for expressing an opinion but are reluctant to ascertain the Wolves stance on this is quite beyond me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Given Re-run's camera position, I am surprised referees do not use their playback facility on close calls. I can remember Frank Ebdon doing just that several years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 You are missing the point completely. The point ,quite simply, is that Jon Cook has on more than one occasion publicly stated his view on the TR rule which is more than any other promotion has done. If you were to canvass opinion from the Wolves promotion And other fans put the point to their own promotion then we would all know who is responsible for maintaining a rule which is deeply unpopular with the vast majority of fans. Quite why you wish to find fault with Cook for expressing an opinion but are reluctant to ascertain the Wolves stance on this is quite beyond me. I'm not missing the point. It means absolutely nothing what Cook says to his fans to keep em happy. It's what he says when he is sat round the table at BSPA meetings and none of us know that. As it happens at prior talk-ins CVS has stated he isn't a fan of the rule but that it was brought in primarily for financial reasons. Of late Sky get the blame, whether or not that is to cover the real reason again, who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) Given Re-run's camera position, I am surprised referees do not use their playback facility on close calls. I can remember Frank Ebdon doing just that several years ago.I also remember Frank Ebdon excluding Paul Whittaker (when Hackney were riding at Wimbledon) despite the fact he wasn't even watching the race nor even saw the incident. He was more involved with chatting to Russell Lanning (part-time Dons promoter at the time) who was in the refs box with him. I was sitting as close as any spectator could next to the box. When I quizzed Ebdon as to whether he had eyes in the back of his head (few choice words omitted ) he remained silent but went rather red-faced. Ebdon excluded Whittaker simply to appease the home fans. My respect for the bloke took a nosedive from that very moment. Edited May 10, 2014 by The Voice Of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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