Arson fire Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Roynon-returns-Devils-place-Reade/story-21071899-detail/story.html Roynon returns to Devils in place of Reade thats a cracking team now mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) It's all very well either the Plymouth Devils or the Plymouth Herald announcing Adam Roynon's return to that team ready for Saturday's meeting (and the Herald does note it depends on BSPA approval). But until Sheffield successfully replace Roynon in their 1-to-7, whether that's with Ty Proctor or anyone else, Roynon has to remain in Sheffield's 1-to-7 even if that club doesn't want him there. You're not allowed a blank space in a 1-to-7 while the ideal new signing's arrival remains in limbo ... any failed or awkward redeclaration of a 1-to-7 forces the previous 1-to-7 to remain the correct one. Hence it's the Sheffield Tigers' responsibility to get BSPA approval for Roynon's successor so that Roynon can leave their 1-to-7 before Roynon himself becomes available to be signed by any other Premier League club. Plymouth have done the right thing by submitting a new 1-to-7 that includes Roynon for Saturday's meeting against Edinburgh by yesterday's redeclaration deadline (3 days before the first meeting in which you want to use that new lineup). But the approval they need from the BSPA actually boils down to Sheffield successfully having a new name approved into the Tigers' 1-to-7 ... otherwise Plymouth are seeking approval for their new lineup when it'll still include a rider already featuring in another Premier League 1-to-7 !! I can't recall any situation where one team has submitted a new 1-to-7 that relies on an incoming rider becoming available during the 3-day gap between the deadline for submitting that new 1-to-7 and the first chance to actually use that new 1-to-7 !! In among all of this, I've plenty of sympathy for Adam Roynon who appears (certainly by his tweets) to have kept a very dignified attitude to the increasingly daft saga of Sheffield's attempt to sack him. Edited May 8, 2014 by arthur cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 The fact that Roynon has signed for Plymouth clears this matter up somewhat, either Proctor is in tonight or he isn't, if he is then all well and good if he isn't there`s no possible way Sheffield can have a facility other than to track a NL guest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) The fact that Roynon has signed for Plymouth clears this matter up somewhat, either Proctor is in tonight or he isn't, if he is then all well and good if he isn't there`s no possible way Sheffield can have a facility other than to track a NL guest. Nothing's actually cleared up yet !! We now know the Plymouth Devils and Adam Roynon want to link up with one another on Saturday night but that link remains subject to BSPA approval. As I've explained a few minutes before your own post, any BSPA approval for Roynon going ahead with Saturday's meeting (and beyond) for Plymouth relies on him no longer being listed in Sheffield's 1-to-7 which is where his name has to remain until Sheffield successfully get any successor for him approved !! If Proctor's not in tonight (thus assuming there's no change to Sheffield's 1-to-7), I agree Sheffield's only options should be a National League guest or persuading Roynon to ride for them despite publicly sacking him 10 days ago. There were so many conflicting bits of rules, advice and reassurances going into Saturday's 1st-leg at Berwick that I can just about understand the fudged-verdict that Sheffield could use R/R for Roynon's 7.09 average in that meeting ... at least, it was some sort of middle ground between either R/R for Proctor's 9.22 average or using a National League guest. But, even allowing for the bank holiday on Monday, there'll have been enough office-hours time to iron out Sheffield's lineup by the time tonight's action begins. Edited May 8, 2014 by arthur cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Nothing's actually cleared up yet !! We now know the Plymouth Devils and Adam Roynon want to link up with one another on Saturday night but that link remains subject to BSPA approval. As I've explained a few minutes before your own post, any BSPA approval for Roynon going ahead with Saturday's meeting (and beyond) for Plymouth relies on him no longer being listed in Sheffield's 1-to-7 which is where his name has to remain until Sheffield successfully get any successor for him approved !! But Roynon cant be in two teams at once, that fact that Roynon has been announced as a Plymouth rider must mean his move has been confirmed by the BSPA, surely Plymouth cant be as amateurish as their Sheffield counterparts by announcing a signing that hasn't been confirmed. If Sheffield try to claim Roynon as still theirs because Proctors move isn't completed then it would make a complete laughing stock of the BSPA, their rules and the sport in general. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted May 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 It's all very well either the Plymouth Devils or the Plymouth Herald announcing Adam Roynon's return to that team ready for Saturday's meeting (and the Herald does note it depends on BSPA approval). But until Sheffield successfully replace Roynon in their 1-to-7, whether that's with Ty Proctor or anyone else, Roynon has to remain in Sheffield's 1-to-7 even if that club doesn't want him there. You're not allowed a blank space in a 1-to-7 while the ideal new signing's arrival remains in limbo ... any failed or awkward redeclaration of a 1-to-7 forces the previous 1-to-7 to remain the correct one. Hence it's the Sheffield Tigers' responsibility to get BSPA approval for Roynon's successor so that Roynon can leave their 1-to-7 before Roynon himself becomes available to be signed by any other Premier League club. Plymouth have done the right thing by submitting a new 1-to-7 that includes Roynon for Saturday's meeting against Edinburgh by yesterday's redeclaration deadline (3 days before the first meeting in which you want to use that new lineup). But the approval they need from the BSPA actually boils down to Sheffield successfully having a new name approved into the Tigers' 1-to-7 ... otherwise Plymouth are seeking approval for their new lineup when it'll still include a rider already featuring in another Premier League 1-to-7 !! I can't recall any situation where one team has submitted a new 1-to-7 that relies on an incoming rider becoming available during the 3-day gap between the deadline for submitting that new 1-to-7 and the first chance to actually use that new 1-to-7 !! In among all of this, I've plenty of sympathy for Adam Roynon who appears (certainly by his tweets) to have kept a very dignified attitude to the increasingly daft saga of Sheffield's attempt to sack him. But Roynon cant be in two teams at once, that fact that Roynon has been announced as a Plymouth rider must mean his move has been confirmed by the BSPA, surely Plymouth cant be as amateurish as their Sheffield counterparts by announcing a signing that hasn't been confirmed. If Sheffield try to claim Roynon as still theirs because Proctors move isn't completed then it would make a complete laughing stock of the BSPA, their rules and the sport in general. No!!! See highlighted part of Arthur's post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits4eva Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Screm The paper said that Roynon is in subject to approval... Means their waiting on clarification too but at least they haven't properly declared him as starting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Screm The paper said that Roynon is in subject to approval... Means their waiting on clarification too but at least they haven't properly declared him as starting! How handy would it be for Roynon to be confirmed as a Plymouth Devil tomorrow meaning Sheffield can get a facility for him tonight, meanwhile Berwick are the innocent victims in all these shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SAINT Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Screm The paper said that Roynon is in subject to approval... Means their waiting on clarification too but at least they haven't properly declared him as starting! sheffields press release also said 'subject to BSPA approval' ... and they got written approval to use r/r for proctor at berwick - all above board by the sheffield management Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits4eva Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 How handy would it be for Roynon to be confirmed as a Plymouth Devil tomorrow meaning Sheffield can get a facility for him tonight, meanwhile Berwick are the innocent victims in all these shenanigans. Yep, for once we certainly are innocent in these matters... Our promotion have been doing their homework a bit better than some lately which means we avoid any screw ups! sheffields press release also said 'subject to BSPA approval' ... and they got written approval to use r/r for proctor at berwick - all above board by the sheffield management But the rain off on Thursday when he hadn't ridden for you screwed it up, didn't it? And if there is a visa issue now, then surely there would have been last week... So, the PR declaring him was premature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SAINT Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Yep, for once we certainly are innocent in these matters... Our promotion have been doing their homework a bit better than some lately which means we avoid any screw ups! But the rain off on Thursday when he hadn't ridden for you screwed it up, didn't it? And if there is a visa issue now, then surely there would have been last week... So, the PR declaring him was premature? premature maybe but following all the rules speedway has ever used ... they may now however,never be the rules ever again !!! (no one in speedway was to know this at the time ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smod Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 sheffields press release also said 'subject to BSPA approval' ... and they got written approval to use r/r for proctor at berwick - all above board by the sheffield management But they didn't! They used r/r for Roynon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SAINT Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 But they didn't! They used r/r for Roynon! which is the correct ruling !!! if your redeclared team isn't approved then you revert to your previous declaration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) But Roynon cant be in two teams at once, that fact that Roynon has been announced as a Plymouth rider must mean his move has been confirmed by the BSPA, surely Plymouth cant be as amateurish as their Sheffield counterparts by announcing a signing that hasn't been confirmed. If Sheffield try to claim Roynon as still theirs because Proctors move isn't completed then it would make a complete laughing stock of the BSPA, their rules and the sport in general. Sheffield aren't trying to "claim" Roynon as still theirs because Proctor's move isn't completed ... they're actually stuck with Roynon because he's in their current 1-to-7 that remains in force until they successfully get any new 1-to-7 that doesn't include his name approved !! Where this whole saga has got bogged down is that it's almost certain the BSPA would've approved Proctor's arrival at Sheffield for speedway reasons without any problem at all but, as Proctor's an Australian on a work-permit, the BSPA can't approve his arrival at Sheffield until UK Visas & Immigration are also satisfied. While I'm often critical of the BSPA, it may well be Sheffield's stubbornness in still pushing for Proctor's arrival that makes them much dafter than the BSPA on this occasion because if Sheffield simply nominated a different new signing who ticked all the right boxes for speedway-rules or work-permit restrictions, then everything's tidied-up immediately and Roynon's no longer in Sheffield's 1-to-7 so he's then free to join Plymouth (or anyone else in the Premier League). As I've mentioned already, it's very unusual for a team to submit a new 1-to-7 that relies on a new signing becoming available during the 3-day gap between submitting it and using it. But only the Plymouth Devils will know whether they've been advised by the BSPA that it's worth taking this unusual route given this strange situation ... or whether Plymouth have simply seen the headlines about Sheffield sacking Roynon, therefore think he's available, and therefore are in for a nasty shock when they discover that he's still listed in Sheffield's 1-to-7 despite the news of his sacking. You'd be amazed how many players and officlals in all sorts of sports (not just speedway) think they know the rules just by all the experiences they've built up over the years, only to be caught out when they wrongly think a bad decision's been made. A prime example was in the recent Sunderland-Cardiff football match where the referee gave Sunderland a penalty for a defender starting to tug a striker's arm outside the penalty-area and still having hold of that arm as they moved into the penalty-area ... most players, coaches, fans, commentators or pundits instinctively thought it was a free-kick because the offence began outside the penalty-area only to find football's laws clearly state it's a penalty when that type of offence continues into the penalty-area. Edited May 8, 2014 by arthur cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Would it really surprise anyone to see the situation arise that Roynon rides for Plymouth whilst Sheffield ate still granted permission to use r/r for him.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Hunter Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Would it really surprise anyone to see the situation arise that Roynon rides for Plymouth whilst Sheffield ate still granted permission to use r/r for him.? Not really, no. Because similar things have happened in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Would it really surprise anyone to see the situation arise that Roynon rides for Plymouth whilst Sheffield ate still granted permission to use r/r for him.? not at all we were going to use RR for Proctor on Saturday when he was riding for another team, this is the next natural extension of that rule. after all this is speedway and not a well run professional sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 after all this is speedway and not a well run professional sport I agree with you but that doesn't mean Sheffield should be above the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyke Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 adam roynon @Ad_Royno4 3m This has just got even more mental from Brandon Who knows what this means ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 adam roynon @Ad_Royno4 3m This has just got even more mental from Brandon Who knows what this means ! My instinct would be Proctor's arrival at Sheffield remains blocked, maybe permanently, by the visa hassle so Sheffield's previous 1-to-7 (including Roynon on a 7.09 average) remains intact and therefore Roynon has to ride for Sheffield tonight or risk a 28-day ban for withholding his services ... meanwhile, bang goes Plymouth's new lineup for Saturday !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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