Adam Roynon Dropped By Sheffield

[Tigerite]

That would be OK by me.

 

I like Proctor - but - British Riders should always come first in my book.

Isn't it the same thing with Rafal Konopka replacing Richard Hall at Redcar and Nico Covatti replacing Ed Kennett at Birmingham, with foreign riders taking the job of English riders ? Or is it ok for EU riders to take English riders jobs ?

[The White Knight]

Isn't it the same thing with Rafal Konopka replacing Richard Hall at Redcar and Nico Covatti replacing Ed Kennett at Birmingham, with foreign riders taking the job of English riders ? Or is it ok for EU riders to take English riders jobs ?

I never thought of that. Good question. :approve:

[YAMYAMBANDIT]

Isn't it the same thing with Rafal Konopka replacing Richard Hall at Redcar and Nico Covatti replacing Ed Kennett at Birmingham, with foreign riders taking the job of English riders ? Or is it ok for EU riders to take English riders jobs ?

Yes it is, as British riders can take Polish or Swedish jobs from them in their countries.

[Cue Ball]

I've seen a few mentions along the lines of `this wouldn't have happened if Hoggy was involved` - Neil Machin is still a promoter at the club. He might not own it, but he is still there in the background, surely he would have been `in the know` and able to advise.

[Triple.H.]

EU riders dont need work permits/visas what I meant in my post is maybe with all the difficulties in getting a visa Government guidelines may now be a lot stricter on movement between employers for visa holders if it means a British subject loses their job.Thats of course any job not just speedway riders.

[arthur cross]

Government guidelines may now be a lot stricter on movement between employers for visa holders if it means a British subject loses their job.Thats of course any job not just speedway riders.

It does appear the Border Agency are having a much more detailed look at how work-permit speedway riders use those permits once they've been granted.

 

For example (but without knowing for certain), Ty Proctor's work permit may have covered him riding for either Wolves or Somerset during 2014 as those would have been the two clubs (and therefore in the Border Agency's view, the 2 different businesses or employers) he expected to be riding for when he was applying for the permit.

 

Speedway fans and officials can understand why Proctor and Sheffield would want to link up with each other ... Proctor's looking for a Premier League team place thanks to Somerset's last-minute pre-season team reshuffle while his current 9.22 Premier average is fantastically ideal for Sheffield who've 9.50 to play with if they drop Adam Roynon but also want to keep Simon Stead as their number-1 on his current 9.29 average.

 

But it looks like someone at the Border Agency's digging their heels in about Sheffield being a totally different employer to Somerset (even though they're competing in the same league) and could therefore be forcing Proctor to apply for a totally new 2014 work permit that would now identify "Wolves & Sheffield" as his employers instead of any previous reference to "Wolves & Somerset".

 

All of which might be leaving Proctor in a very awkward dilemma ... either carry on using his original 2014 "Wolves & Somerset" work permit while knowing it only really now means he can ride for Wolves ... or risk missing meetings in the short-term for Wolves (never mind being stuck on the Premier League sidelines) while he goes through any time-lag (perhaps even including the briefest of trips back to Auatralia) during the process of being granted the new 2014 "Wolves & Sheffield" work permit he needs to be able to fit into Sheffield's 1-to-7

 

On a wider basis within all of Elite & Premier speedway (rather than just this matter affecting Ty Proctor replacing Adam Roynon), are the Border Agency also now paying much closer attention to work-permit riders taking guest bookings because the Border Agency could then reckon such a guest is briefly being employed by a business not identified on his particular permit ? !!

[smod]

It does appear the Border Agency are having a much more detailed look at how work-permit speedway riders use those permits once they've been granted.

 

But it looks like someone at the Border Agency's digging their heels in about Sheffield being a totally different employer to Somerset (even though they're competing in the same league) and could therefore be forcing Proctor to apply for a totally new 2014 work permit that would now identify "Wolves & Sheffield" as his employers instead of any previous reference to "Wolves & Somerset".

Very well put, Arthur.

 

The problem for the BSPA here might mean the unfortunate Ty Proctor having to be temporarily thrown to the sharks to preserve the bigger picture.

 

If the Border Agency (is that the department Teresa May wants to wind up as being not fit for purpose?)has got its teeth into this one it might take more than one meeting between BSPA and BA to sort out without collateral damage to the sport as a whole.

 

Maybe Sheffield putting the story in the local paper (isn't the HQ of the Border Agency in Sheffield?) before the BA had confirmed his situation was what highlighted it?

[arthur cross]

If the Border Agency (is that the department Teresa May wants to wind up as being not fit for purpose?)has got its teeth into this one it might take more than one meeting between BSPA and BA to sort out without collateral damage to the sport as a whole.

A quick bit of google-searching confirms it's now "UK Visas & Immigration" as part of the Home Office that does whatever the "UK Border Agency" used to do before the Home Secretary Theresa May did indeed bulldoze that organization last year.

 

So who's your money on in a fight when it's BSPA versus UKV&I

 

And can it be resolved while Proctor's average remains so well suited to Sheffield's reshuffling ? !!

[Dekker]

Is Proctor on the same type of visa as Doyle [and other riders that didnt apply in time for a full visa] that restricts him to 1 named team?

[Ned Kelly 41]

Is Proctor on the same type of visa as Doyle [and other riders that didnt apply in time for a full visa] that restricts him to 1 named team?

Nope, because he came over to race at Wolves and Somerset.

 

His visa (and a good few others) presumably named these employers. So it might be another club will no longer be able to take over a foreign rider from his designated club(s) during the season.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Ned Kelly 41

[crescent girl]

And can it be resolved while Proctor's average remains so well suited to Sheffield's reshuffling ? !!

Bugger that. As long as it isn't resolved until after 7.45 tomorrow night!

[Local Boy]

Isn't it the same thing with Rafal Konopka replacing Richard Hall at Redcar and Nico Covatti replacing Ed Kennett at Birmingham, with foreign riders taking the job of English riders ? Or is it ok for EU riders to take English riders jobs ?

European citizens have the same rights to work here as we have to work in their countries i.e. full rights.

[The White Knight]

European citizens have the same rights to work here as we have to work in their countries i.e. full rights.

Yes - and THAT'S the trouble. :mad:

[womble53]

For example (but without knowing for certain), Ty Proctor's work permit may have covered him riding for either Wolves or Somerset during 2014 as those would have been the two clubs (and therefore in the Border Agency's view, the 2 different businesses or employers) he expected to be riding for when he was applying for the permit.

 

But it looks like someone at the Border Agency's digging their heels in about Sheffield being a totally different employer to Somerset (even though they're competing in the same league) and could therefore be forcing Proctor to apply for a totally new 2014 work permit that would now identify "Wolves & Sheffield" as his employers instead of any previous reference to "Wolves & Somerset".

 

All of which might be leaving Proctor in a very awkward dilemma ... either carry on using his original 2014 "Wolves & Somerset" work permit while knowing it only really now means he can ride for Wolves ... or risk missing meetings in the short-term for Wolves (never mind being stuck on the Premier League sidelines) while he goes through any time-lag (perhaps even including the briefest of trips back to Auatralia) during the process of being granted the new 2014 "Wolves & Sheffield" work permit he needs to be able to fit into Sheffield's 1-to-7

 

This would suggest that none of the above is correct (you did say 'without knowing for certain'), and there appears to be no necessity that a second employer is named, as the requirement for a new application only applies if you are seeking secondary employment outside your sector of employment, in which your main job resides.

 

From the Uk Visas and Immigration section on the Home Office Website (Here):

 

'You’ll need to make a new Tier 2 (Sportsperson) visa application if you want to do a second job that isn’t in the same sector as your main job or isn’t voluntary work. You can do a second job (up to 20 hours a week) that is on the shortage list without making a new application'.

 

 

Is Proctor on the same type of visa as Doyle [and other riders that didnt apply in time for a full visa] that restricts him to 1 named team?

 

Once again, according to the same source as above, anyone on a T5 Visa (As Doyle is), can work for up to 20 hrs per week for a second employer, so it begs the question, who was it that put the single job restriction on Doyle............Answers on a postcard to

 

ACU Headquarters

Wood Street

Rugby

Warwickshire

CV21 2YX

United Kingdom

 

From the Uk Visas and Immigration section on the Home Office Website (Here):

What you can and can’t do

You can:

• work for your sponsor in the job described in your certificate of sponsorship
• do a second job in the same sector and at the same level as your main job for up to 20 hours per week
• do a job on the shortage occupation list for up to 20 hours per week
• work as a sportsperson for your national team and as a sports broadcaster if you’re here under the sporting subcategory
• bring your family

Edited May 8, 2014 by womble53

[Local Boy]

Yes - and THAT'S the trouble. :mad:

I don't think it is the real issue at all; the real issue is British bosses wanting to pay peanuts to line their own pockets and British workers not being prepared to join trade unions to protect themselves. This aligned with British workers no longer wanting to be fruit pickers, street cleaners, etc means that we need EU employees or our economy collapses.

 

If we ban all foreign works as some people want where are we going to put the 5.5 million British workers that will be sent back to this country from abroad?

This would suggest that none of the above is correct (you did say 'without knowing for certain'), and there appears to be no necessity that a second employer is named, as the requirement for a new application only applies if you are seeking secondary employment outside your sector of employment, in which your main job resides.

 

From the Uk Visas and Immigration section on the Home Office Website:

 

'You’ll need to make a new Tier 2 (Sportsperson) visa application if you want to do a second job that isn’t in the same sector as your main job or isn’t voluntary work. You can do a second job (up to 20 hours a week) that is on the shortage list without making a new application'.

 

 

 

Once again, according to the same source as above, anyone on a T5 Visa (As Doyle is), can work for up to 20 hrs per week for a second employer, so it begs the question, who was it that put the single job restriction on Doyle............Answers on a postcard to

 

ACU Headquarters

Wood Street

Rugby

Warwickshire

CV21 2YX

United Kingdom

 

From the Uk Visas and Immigration section on the Home Office Website:

What you can and can’t do

You can:

• work for your sponsor in the job described in your certificate of sponsorship
• do a second job in the same sector and at the same level as your main job for up to 20 hours per week
• do a job on the shortage occupation list for up to 20 hours per week
• work as a sportsperson for your national team and as a sports broadcaster if you’re here under the sporting subcategory
• bring your family

Why blame the BSPA? If there is a transgression of Visa rules that is down to the rider and his employer. It seems a lot of people are looking to apportion blame before the facts are actually public knowledge. From my experience of this forum this usually indicates a promotion have leaked to their mates so that when it all comes out in the wash they have already pointed the finger of blame elsewhere. They then hopefully get off looking squeaky clean. Time will tell what the problem really is.

[womble53]

Why blame the BSPA? If there is a transgression of Visa rules that is down to the rider and his employer.

 

Why would you think I was blaming the BSPA ?.

 

I was just asking the question for two reasons

 

1. Because the Visa rules seem pretty straight forwards and easy to understand to me. I was just reading through the Visa and Immigration rule, and if these are applied correctly by the Home Office, then the fault must lie elsewhere. Where would you suggest that is in the two cases I commented on above?

 

2. Because we are dealing with an organisations that appears not to know its own rules, in the Proctor/Sheffield case, therefore why would you expect anything it says on Visa rules to be 100%

 

So there you go, no leaked information involved here, could the same be said for you?

Edited May 8, 2014 by womble53

[Local Boy]

Why would you think I was blaming the BSPA ?.

 

I was just asking the question for two reasons

 

1. Because the Visa rules seem pretty straight forwards and easy to understand to me. I was just reading through the Visa and Immigration rule, and if these are applied correctly by the Home Office, then the fault must lie elsewhere. Where would you suggest that is in the two cases I commented on above?

 

2. Because we are dealing with an organisations that appears not to know its own rules, in the Proctor/Sheffield case, therefore why would you expect anything it says on Visa rules to be 100%

 

So there you go, no leaked information involved here, could the same be said for you?

Fair comment, your answers on a postcard line can be read a number of ways All I'm saying is that the full facts are not known so until they are it's difficult to know what is going on. There is clearly some sort of issue though and if it is around Visas then that may be serious.

 

The bigger issue for me is the appalling way speedway treats its riders; hire and fire at will; ban them if they withhold services; its like going back to the days of the masters and the serfs!

Edited May 8, 2014 by Local Boy

[YAMYAMBANDIT]

Yes - and THAT'S the trouble. :mad:

NO NO NO, the amount of EU migrant workers coming into the UK to work is almost perfectly balanced off with the amount of UK citizens migrating to the rest of Europe to work or live

[keyham]

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Roynon-returns-Devils-place-Reade/story-21071899-detail/story.html

 

Roynon returns to Devils in place of Reade

Edited May 8, 2014 by keyham

[luluthetiger]

Getting interesting now! Adam Roynon today named in Plymouth newspapers as having signed for the Devils, and racing for them on Saturday against Edinburgh.

 

Which surely, surely means that Sheffield (if Proctor isn't approved today) can't maintain him in their 1-7 and use any facility for him tonight?