Jonny the spud Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 If anyone believes that riders are only getting £10 a point then they're seriously deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 If Buxton and Scunny are so wrong in using inexperienced riders why will their riders be poached by the likes of Cradley once they improve? Riders at Scunny and Buxton do only get paid £10 point. If this was adhered to by all teams there would be less poaching - and more effort made to use young, inexperienced riders. With the old grading system at least teams using newer riders had a benefit in the fact that their grade was lower than that of an experienced rider and teams were more willing to use inexperienced riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_t Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Would Cradley fans support Premier League on a Tuesday at £15 instead of £11?? Even if they were mid table or lower? I reckon the three wise men would love to know the answer. We would support Cradley where ever in the league they are.Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Would Cradley fans support Premier League on a Tuesday at £15 instead of £11?? Even if they were mid table or lower? I reckon the three wise men would love to know the answer. I think that they know they would be supported, maybe its down to the fact that there outgoings rider wise would be substantially more, so therefore the profitability would be massively less, its a catch 22 situation for them, stick or twist but whilst things are as they are supporters coming through the gates albeit looking down a little, they will stick. In my opinion it will take a massive show of supporter led persuasion to see things change and for us to go PL, not bcuz supporters dont want it, but because at least one of the promotion has said it is probably unviable. My own opinion is that the time has come for us to test the water, though when you look at the recent Plymouth announcement this will only add fuel to us staying in the NL. Its not only a case of being a big fish in a small pond, or a tiddler in the ocean, its that viability which is the all important factor, which the promotion know only to well, remember Swindon last year ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 In my opinion it will take a massive show of supporter led persuasion to see things change and for us to go PL, not bcuz supporters dont want it, but because at least one of the promotion has said it is probably unviable. My own opinion is that the time has come for us to test the water, though when you look at the recent Plymouth announcement this will only add fuel to us staying in the NL. . If one of the promotion says PL isnt viable,with what is one of the best following in British Speedway,it doesnt show much hope for alot of the Premier league teams Cradley must be one of a few teams in the UK that makes a profit i guess,iand i hope a nice one---where does this cash go?? who actually own the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunty Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Would Cradley fans support Premier League on a Tuesday at £15 instead of £11?? Even if they were mid table or lower? I reckon the three wise men would love to know the answer. I would attend but I dont want it to happen. As we are now is the only viable way of running our speedway team, if we were to move up a league then EVERYTHING increases. We would have more fixtures, higher wages, higher admission prices, season tickets would go from £120 to around £250 and I dont see many taking that option after having the luxury of £10 speedway which is what you get with a season ticket, it can be less if we go to Cup and Play Offs to around £7.50 For me it all comes down to getting our own track, our aim was to bring Cradley back and to be racing on our own track...not to be renting out Monmore in the PL forever. When that happens then we would have the capabilities of going PL. We wouldnt be paying rent, we wouldnt loosing out on food sales that at Monmore are huge the amount of chips and hot dogs eaten is amazing (I had one last night). We would take our own takings, it maybe that we would be sharing with a football club and a the dogs at our own home but agreements on our terms would help us. The issue that has arose from these ommerings is what needs to be done in the NL to bring it back to a level playing feild...People are now wanting Cradley to step up due to sucsess when that is not the real issue. I think im in the minority of Cradley fans but stepping up into PL without our own track would just be a step to please the fans and not in the best intrest of the club! Edited April 30, 2014 by Ommer UM Speedway Blog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 maybe a maximum pay rate may help to equalize the teams? say something like 10 pound a point...? if everyone had to pay that then surely that would mean riders wouldnt choose to go to the highest payers thus spreading around the talent available and making the racing more competitive..? oh, hang on, just realised, that already exists.... zero sympathy for those teams who pay out far more than the standard rate to attract the best riders out there for each position in the team, then amazingly moan that the meetings are 'one sided'... how in all reality, can they be surprised....? each team has its own business plan in the NL with widely different objectives, finding a 'happy medium' would be I suggest nigh on impossible given the diversity of what success looks like for each team.. If riders had a choice £10 a point to ride for scunny , buxton , or cradley . they would still choose cradley , theres more reasons riders want to go to cradley than money 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Butler Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) sems to me the answer is for all clubs to abide by the agreed maximum £ per point so that it is a more competitive league...and cradley should be saving money for future track rather than squandering it now on riders to win the NL...if the fan base is as solid as is being made out then not winning the league isn't going to affect it. In the long run I'd have thought it far better to have a competitive match for £10 maybe with a few off the gate but less outgoings to riders who really should be using this as a training league for experience, not to make a living. Edited April 30, 2014 by Mike.Butler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 sems to me the answer is for all clubs to abide by the agreed maximum £ per point so that it is a more competitive league...and cradley should be saving money for future track rather than squandering it now on riders to win the NL...if the fan base is as solid as is being made out then not winning the league isn't going to affect it. In the long run I'd have thought it far better to have a competitive match for £10 maybe with a few off the gate but less outgoings to riders who really should be using this as a training league for experience, not to make a living. thats what amateur series , southern track and MDL are for , If I want to see people training to be speedway riders I can watch that for nothing , but I dont ,so I expect a reasonable standard of racing for my £10 and that is national league .. well it was until all this train ing league nonsense came up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ommer Mon Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 That right mix or youth and experience worked a treat eh!!!! Could have gone better I admit, Montie! It was an ommering as we predicted but there were some highlights. Heat 1 was one of the best races I've seen this year with Tony Atkin passing both Starkie and Greavesie and then getting picked off by both of them. Liam Carr also got stuck in and mixed it. He was unlucky not to win one when an unwelcome wheelie messed him up. One key factor is that this was Buxton's first match whereas some of the Cradley lads must be pushing 20 meetings by now with double and treble ups. You are always going to struggle first out in those circumstances. I think it is now becoming obvious that the Elite League involvement is improving some of them. One point from Ommer Um I would disagree with was the cheers and applause for Ryan Blacklock (rather than Tom Woolley) in his last ride when he got a second. I think the whole crowd applauded him. I and those around me certainly did but it was genuine rather than to take the micky. He'd had a lousy night, falling three times, and he did really well to keep going and pick some points up. At the end of the meeting Porky asked for a round of applause for the Buxton team and they got it. At a time when some of our supporters' behaviour has been brought into question at Coventry, I thought that went some way to restore the balance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 thats what amateur series , southern track and MDL are for , If I want to see people training to be speedway riders I can watch that for nothing , but I dont ,so I expect a reasonable standard of racing for my £10 and that is national league .. well it was until all this train ing league nonsense came up I would attend but I dont want it to happen. As we are now is the only viable way of running our speedway team, if we were to move up a league then EVERYTHING increases. We would have more fixtures, higher wages, higher admission prices, season tickets would go from £120 to around £250 and I dont see many taking that option after having the luxury of £10 speedway which is what you get with a season ticket, it can be less if we go to Cup and Play Offs to around £7.50 For me it all comes down to getting our own track, our aim was to bring Cradley back and to be racing on our own track...not to be renting out Monmore in the PL forever. When that happens then we would have the capabilities of going PL. We wouldnt be paying rent, we wouldnt loosing out on food sales that at Monmore are huge the amount of chips and hot dogs eaten is amazing (I had one last night). We would take our own takings, it maybe that we would be sharing with a football club and a the dogs at our own home but agreements on our terms would help us. The issue that has arose from these ommerings is what needs to be done in the NL to bring it back to a level playing feild...People are now wanting Cradley to step up due to sucsess when that is not the real issue. I think im in the minority of Cradley fans but stepping up into PL without our own track would just be a step to please the fans and not in the best intrest of the club! But watching your team knock 60-70 points past most teams this year cannot be entertaining and stepping up to higher levels with better riders must be better than that on show at present. There must not be much on in the area if people put up with what is going on and class it as enjoyed and then boast...not yourself but most Heathen fans at winning this league. You have had the top cream riding for you and now sit content in the bottom league. Get competitive racing and I would be back like a flash. This will kill speedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 ... when you look at the recent Plymouth announcement this will only add fuel to us staying in the NL. Look at the success of Scunthorpe Scorpions in the PL. They moved up a couple of seasons before Plymouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 as a matter of interest,what are the crowd levels at Cradley like I was there 2 years ago and i guess there was somewhere between 1200 and 1300 there--is that the normal kind of average??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Yes Ommer mon has hid opinion and i respect it, but may i ask the following questions. What is being done to find us a Track, and by who ?, are we relying on a Council to say here you are Heathens here is a piece of land (it will never happen). At best we should be looking to long term lease some land,buying is simply to expensive, and never will see a return on the investment. We should Target every Sports club in the area Football, Rugby,Cricket whatever Sport and see if they have excess suitable land that could be used, or as Gornal Fc a Club thats looking to sell up and relocate, the Speedway could bring them some lucrative long term finance, then when that option has been exausted we can say we have looked without success what do YOU as supporters want ?. as a matter of interest,what are the crowd levels at Cradley like I was there 2 years ago and i guess there was somewhere between 1200 and 1300 there--is that the normal kind of average??? I have Pmd you montie. Edited April 30, 2014 by greyhoundp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Yes Ommer mon has hid opinion and i respect it, but may i ask the following questions. What is being done to find us a Track, and by who ?, are we relying on a Council to say here you are Heathens here is a piece of land (it will never happen). At best we should be looking to long term lease some land,buying is simply to expensive, and never will see a return on the investment. We should Target every Sports club in the area Football, Rugby,Cricket whatever Sport and see if they have excess suitable land that could be used, or as Gornal Fc a Club thats looking to sell up and relocate, the Speedway could bring them some lucrative long term finance, then when that option has been exausted we can say we have looked without success what do YOU as supporters want ?. I have Pmd you montie. What is the actual position when it come to finding a track,after 3 or 4 year of NL speedway with crowds over over 1000 ,simple maths indicate that there must be quite a fighting fund or pot of cash to use to do something with?? 1000 punters @11 is 11k a home meeting gross.[less say 4 k costs??].so there must be some money being made and put towards a deserved stadium of your own??? Edited April 30, 2014 by montie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 sems to me the answer is for all clubs to abide by the agreed maximum £ per point so that it is a more competitive league...and cradley should be saving money for future track rather than squandering it now on riders to win the NL...if the fan base is as solid as is being made out then not winning the league isn't going to affect it. In the long run I'd have thought it far better to have a competitive match for £10 maybe with a few off the gate but less outgoings to riders who really should be using this as a training league for experience, not to make a living. You can pay every rider £10 per point, but £10 per point is not £10 per point at every team. Cradely are well known for having fans who want to help the riders, so while £10 per point may be their base rate, if a rider is offered £10 per point, plus the club have lined up sponsorship for them, plus there is a fan base well known for helping riders, it looks a lot better than the £10 a point on offer elsewhere! The unfortunate fact, as speedibee said, is that riders would still choose Cradely (And other bigger clubs) due to the benefits they can offer them aside from the points money. Let's also not forget that £10 a point wouldn't go far at all, because it only takes one crash and you have wiped out most of your months earnings! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 If anyone believes that riders are only getting £10 a point then they're seriously deluded. and therein lies the issue... total lunacy to agree a points limit and then completely ignore its non compliance..... that is why we are where we are today... as said previously, the NL has far too wildly differing agendas to ever make a level playing... therefore with such an obvious imbalance in salaries paid, no-one should be surprised if meetings are not entertaining due to such disparate team strengths.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) So far theres only 2, particularly weak teams , 1, who made the the unilateral decision to turn the National League into a training scheme , and 1 (Buxton) who for reasons of budget unpopular track etc have done their best to track a team in keeping with the general standard of the national league . and who have only raced one meeting so far, and judging on past record will be taking steps throughout the season to ensure they field the best posssible standard team , so not too much cause for alarm yet , what we have here is a case of the tail wanting to wag the dog , Edited May 1, 2014 by speedibee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 ive read somewhere else that cradleys crowds are down this season? havent been myself so cant make too much of a judgement, but maybe some of the fans dont want to see total maulings each week and therefore voting with their feet? just imagine if cradley somehow did manage to get brady kurtz at reserve like originally planned. the outcome now would be even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 ive read somewhere else that cradleys crowds are down this season? havent been myself so cant make too much of a judgement, but maybe some of the fans dont want to see total maulings each week and therefore voting with their feet? just imagine if cradley somehow did manage to get brady kurtz at reserve like originally planned. the outcome now would be even worse. Not that I have noticed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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