Fast Track Riders

[ch958]

 

I believe the biggest problem British Speedway has, is trying to compete with other countries like Poland, Sweden and Denmark. We ( UK) cannot sustain that level of finance. It is well known the difference in earning potential a rider can earn abroad so we will always be at the bottom of most riders priorities. I also feel it be best to promote a product that we can afford.

We have about half a dozen top riders of the world in our league, and I feel we should be grateful for that. If you call that dilution then so be it. We need to get real and appreciate speedway will never be the force it once was, where all the top riders rode in our league. Now we have to make do with what can be achieved. If that is to incorporate draft riders, into our league, then so be it.

It is possible to get good racing and thoroughly enjoy a speedway meeting without the necessity of all top riders. What this new format has done, is bring lesser riders into the limelight. and that has to be beneficial in the long run.....

 

Appreciate your opinions....

 

 

the sooner people accept this the better

its why the pl is relatively succesful and the el relatively unsuccesful

IMO of course

[Steve0]

 

If you had a team in the top 4 with a pick of the reserves like Kings Lynn have i wonder if you're stance would be the same??

I would like to think it would be because I do see the bigger picture. What fans want is value for money - clearly you and a few others believe you are and that's commendable but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough and that is where I am. If Swindon had say Blackbird and Kerr, I would still say that it was the process at fault and wouldn't be happy.

 

Of course, you may have a different view of how I would react and that is your opinion. As I have said, I am not getting at individual clubs - good luck to them as for once (or many times in one team's case) the rules have helped them but the rules are hindering other clubs and that is what's wrong. My other big bugbear is the fact that teams like Eastbourne (again no fault of theirs) go ahead on a Saturday night when visiting teams are tracking PL guests for their number 1. Looking at the value for money, these two issues are a BIG factor for me losing interest in attending speedway.

[arthur cross]

Its the PL that is now causing more harm to British speedway by there own stubborn stance to not change.

Nothing "stubborn" about the PL's stance last winter (or, indeed, since then) towards a Fast Track Draft at its level ... instead, there remain several extra real obstacles to successfully undertaking a PL-version of such a draft.

 

Firstly, the PL & NL fixture-lists clash much more with each other than any EL & NL fixture-lists simply because (with the exception of Peterborough's 2014 switch to Tuesdays) the PL is entirely a Thu/Fri/Sat/Sun league for regular home nights whereas the EL has far fewer clubs with weekend home nights.

 

Secondly, at the time a draft like this was being debated last November, there were 12 PL clubs compared to 10 EL clubs so the pool of riders for any PL draft would have had to be bigger than a similar pool for the EL draft to make sure there were enough riders to go round ... Peterborough's subsequent inclusion as the PL's 13th team would've stretched the pool of draft riders at that level even further.

 

Thirdly, and not to be under-estimated when working out any young rider's workload in terms of travel time as well as the racing itself, the PL teams are scattered across a far greater map of Britain than the EL clubs.

 

In fact, over half of the PL clubs (7 of 13) are more than 100 miles away from their nearest EL club (all of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Berwick, Workington, Newcastle and Redcar in relation to Belle Vue and then there's also Plymouth in relation to Poole or Swindon).

 

Why that's very significant is that such extra distances were likely to put off some of the younger riders better suited by a PL draft from entering such a scheme simply because they couldn't commit themselves to the risk of being drafted by a club based too far away from their home ... you must remember quite a few of the potential PL draft candidates would've been relying on parents/friends/mechanics to drive them to-&-from meetings so even if the rider himself wants to commit to speedway full-time, there's still the need to rely on that sort of help from others who do have jobs away from the sport and, therefore, might not be able to spare the time required to help a PL draft rider reach all that league's far-flung outposts.

 

I can understand "stevebrum" (clearly with much more of an EL-background) reckoning the PL hasn't pulled its weight on this whole draft concept ... what's your response to the obstacles I've just explained above.

Edited June 2, 2014 by arthur cross

[weatherwatcher]

It would be nice to see the time when we are in a position to field an all British team in both the EL and PL leagues. As has happened at Leicester this year not one but 2 overseas riders signed for the team at the start of the season, only to pull the plug at stop racing in this country.

This is not good enough by any standard and they should have thier visa's stopped for a min of 5 years if these are the tactics they are using. Not only is it bad for the sport but bad for the clubs. If they sign they should stay until the seson has finished.

I just hope that there will come a day that we have enough good British riders and ones that are up to the top level of speedway not only in this country but in the world, that we can, then pick from a selection of very good British riders to make up our league teams. But we have a very long way to go before that happens.

I think we are very hard pushed to name more than 1 rider at the moment, that is capable of doing this country proud in the the GP series. What a state we are in.

I hope that this draft rider reserve postion makes some changes to that but it has a long way to go to do that.

The difference of the riders is quite obvious. With a few that are worth a place and those that are just out of thier depths, they have been thrown into this before they where ready. They should have at least have riden in the PL in reserve, before they rode in the EL, the young lads that have come in with only rides in the NL are good at what they where doing but when they are up against those riders who have been riding in the PL or the EL for quite a few years then they just don't stand a chance. Give this scheme a few years and we maqy see some very good riders come forth, I hope to see it happen, but that will only come about with comitment from the team management and help from the older team riders.

I think some of the older riders couldn't care less about these young lads, all they worry about is winning races and then get on to the next race. Without help from somewhere getting them to learn racing lines and bike setups, then they will just carry on as they are doing now losing races week in week out and just losing faith in the sport.

Lots of youngsters have gone this way and given up after a few years, racing in the lower leauges and just getting nowhere.

So hopefully this year will do some good, and if it carries on next year and beyond I just hope they make some major changes to the scheme of things.

Some of the riders should be riding in a team place and not at reserve, as they are well above the standrd of the other reserves.

Lets hope it pays some dividends in the coming years.

[Crazy robin]

Well I must say how I enjoyed the 25 year old Simon Lambert riding in the Elite League tonight & how he was in such control of the bike at all times.

 

Yes he will beat the likes of Nathan but he really is an example of the daftness of the draft system.

[Crazy robin]

Eh? It was morris doing the comedy riding tonight lol!

 

No stupid riding from the draft lads

 

Watch Lambert in Heat 2 & then compare how he's ripping up the premier League as well(not).

 

Yes Nick looked dodgy tonight but at least he's earned his spot in the 2 leagues unlike Simon who is just a National Lge rider.

[stevebrum]

There are far less options open to teams if a reserve rider is absent and because of the emphasis put on the reserves it will become more and more difficult to cover them, especially when there better reserve is absent. I agree with the idea of getting British riders to rider at a higher level but there doesn't seem to be enough of them.

 

 

I agree that there are flaws when a much higher grade rider is missing and really only the top half really suitable guests.

The only analogy that is comparable i guess would be if say Woffy or Bjerre were injured for some time there will be more riders available of a much lower grade than suitable for a large chunk of the meetings.

 

 

 

I would like to think it would be because I do see the bigger picture. What fans want is value for money - clearly you and a few others believe you are and that's commendable but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough and that is where I am. If Swindon had say Blackbird and Kerr, I would still say that it was the process at fault and wouldn't be happy.

 

Of course, you may have a different view of how I would react and that is your opinion. As I have said, I am not getting at individual clubs - good luck to them as for once (or many times in one team's case) the rules have helped them but the rules are hindering other clubs and that is what's wrong. My other big bugbear is the fact that teams like Eastbourne (again no fault of theirs) go ahead on a Saturday night when visiting teams are tracking PL guests for their number 1. Looking at the value for money, these two issues are a BIG factor for me losing interest in attending speedway.

 

 

I do hear your views and i do know you aren't on your own in feeling like that. Clearly you and others think that dumbing down to a NL standard reserve is a step to far. I get that.

I too miss meetings from really only 10 years ago when heats 13`s & 15`s alone where worth the admission money and is a huge step down to those even recent times.

However those days are gone for the foreseeable future and you either stick with the sport you love or desert it. That is something i couldn't do as long as Wolves have an EL team.

Riders no longer want or need EL racing and that is a statement of fact, i hate that fact but i wish we could change and adapt in the way that Poland and Sweden do and have a real long look at what can work in giving the supporters a strong league again.

There are answers and i wish the promotions weren't so selfish to only consider there only businesses instead of the bigger picture that you and i both see very clearly.

 

 

Nothing "stubborn" about the PL's stance last winter (or, indeed, since then) towards a Fast Track Draft at its level ... instead, there remain several extra real obstacles to successfully undertaking a PL-version of such a draft.

 

Firstly, the PL & NL fixture-lists clash much more with each other than any EL & NL fixture-lists simply because (with the exception of Peterborough's 2014 switch to Tuesdays) the PL is entirely a Thu/Fri/Sat/Sun league for regular home nights whereas the EL has far fewer club with weekend home nights.

 

Secondly, at the time a draft like this was being debated last November, there were 12 PL clubs compared to 10 EL clubs so the pool of riders for any PL draft would have had to be bigger than a similar pool for the EL draft to make sure there were enough riders to go round ... Peterborough's subsequent inclusion as the PL's 13th team would've stretched the pool of draft riders at that level even further.

 

Thirdly, and not to be under-estimated when working out any young rider's workload in terms of travel time as well as the racing itself, the PL teams are scattered across a far greater map of Britain than the EL clubs.

 

In fact, over half of the PL clubs (7 of 13) are more than 100 miles away from their nearest EL club (all of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Berwick, Workington, Newcastle and Redcar in relation to Belle Vue and then there's aslo Plymouth in relation to Poole or Swindon).

 

Why that's very significant is that such extra distances were likely to put off some of the younger riders better suited by a PL draft from entering such a scheme simply because they couldn't commit themselves to the risk of being drafted by a club based too far away from their home ... you must remember quite a few of the potential PL draft candidates would've been relying on parents/friends/mechanics to drive them to-&-from meetings so even if the rider himself wants to commit to speedway full-time, there's still the need to rely on that sort of help from others who do have jobs away from the sport and, therefore, might not be able to spare the time required to help a PL draft rider reach all that league's far-flung outposts.

 

I can understand "stevebrum" (clearly with much more of an EL-background) reckoning the PL hasn't pulled its weight on this whole draft concept ... what's your response to the obstacles I've just explained above.

 

 

Interesting comments AC and if the PL are looking at ways to adapt and adopt it then that is superb news.

Im not ignorant of the PL nor devalue it. It is a vital tier to the sport.

Of course sharing riders between 3 clubs can be a nightmare and i fully understand that. Some club/supporter is going to be unhappy if THERE rider is riding for another team and it would be good to a bit flexible with the draft rule in particular of maybe allowing less rigidity with the rules regarding who can ride or guest. A little bit of sensibility could go a long way without the usual suspects trying to fudge the rules to suit themselves.

 

If ever we need something to work for ALL levels of British racing it is that this draft system is fully endorsed by ALL promotions and are committed to the future of BRITISH riders. That is perhaps the only way we are going to entice people back to the sport once some home grown riders are good enough to compete at the top level.

[Shale Searcher]

Admission prices need looking at..

Elite League £17/£18

Prem League £17, anyone pay less or more, both leagues?

[T.N.T.]

Admission prices need looking at..

Elite League £17/£18

Prem League £17, anyone pay less or more, both leagues?

 

Reducing the entrance fee would be great in a real world but to make it cheaper then there would have to be less top line riders like Woffinden, Iversen, Zagar etc but then that begs the question ...... PL tracks don't feature such riders so why do they charge so much ?

[waiheke1]

 

Reducing the entrance fee would be great in a real world but to make it cheaper then there would have to be less top line riders like Woffinden, Iversen, Zagar etc but then that begs the question ...... PL tracks don't feature such riders so why do they charge so much ?

Tbh, there is clearly a large fixed cost base to be covered before variabled such ss rider wages are added.

Ideally speedway would be ten quid, but to do this the sport needs to find a way to treble attendances, so thst tracks can run at a profit and still retsin/attract top riders.

I do find it bizarre that pl fans label the el a rip off, particularly this year with the Draft, but seemingly have no issue with the pl charging basically the same price.

[Crazy robin]

Speaking to someone involved at Peterborough the word is that the draft will be in both leagues next season.

 

Like most fans, both riders and promoters see it as a great success.

 

No doubt the promoters are more motivated by the cost savings but it's good to hear that the people who know what they are talking about agree that the draft has been a success and with a bit of fine tuning will only get better.

Let's hope it works that National lge riders this season do Premier next season & the Premier lge riders this season step up to Elite league.

 

That way the gap between the draft riders will be closer & it will be much better.

[Fromafar]

Admission prices need looking at..

Elite League £17/£18

Prem League £17, anyone pay less or more, both leagues?

Berwick £14

[Shale Searcher]

 

Reducing the entrance fee would be great in a real world but to make it cheaper then there would have to be less top line riders like Woffinden, Iversen, Zagar etc but then that begs the question ...... PL tracks don't feature such riders so why do they charge so much ?

That was sort of what I meant, why is there so little difference in admission prices between PL and EL...

Berwick £14

Well that seems great value, and more like the correct price difference between PL / EL

[BTFC LION]

Berwick £14

Leicester was £15 in the PL. Now it is £16 in the EL.

[Shale Searcher]

Leicester was £15 in the PL. Now it is £16 in the EL.

So it's increased by around 7p a race if you don't include the second half races, that's pretty good in my book!!

[BTFC LION]

So it's increased by around 7p a race if you don't include the second half races, that's pretty good in my book!!

I agree with you. I only posted the cost as someone asked the question.

[Shale Searcher]

I agree with you. I only posted the cost as someone asked the question.

 

Again, thanks BTFC LION. From what I have gleaned from various sources, the difference in what is paid out to riders, don't forget it's the same meeting format, same number of riders, the pay rates to riders is quite a bit different, so who's right admission price wise?

[E I Addio]

Nothing "stubborn" about the PL's stance last winter (or, indeed, since then) towards a Fast Track Draft at its level ... instead, there remain several extra real obstacles to successfully undertaking a PL-version of such a draft.

 

Firstly, the PL & NL fixture-lists clash much more with each other than any EL & NL fixture-lists simply because (with the exception of Peterborough's 2014 switch to Tuesdays) the PL is entirely a Thu/Fri/Sat/Sun league for regular home nights whereas the EL has far fewer clubs with weekend home nights.

 

Secondly, at the time a draft like this was being debated last November, there were 12 PL clubs compared to 10 EL clubs so the pool of riders for any PL draft would have had to be bigger than a similar pool for the EL draft to make sure there were enough riders to go round ... Peterborough's subsequent inclusion as the PL's 13th team would've stretched the pool of draft riders at that level even further.

 

Thirdly, and not to be under-estimated when working out any young rider's workload in terms of travel time as well as the racing itself, the PL teams are scattered across a far greater map of Britain than the EL clubs.

 

In fact, over half of the PL clubs (7 of 13) are more than 100 miles away from their nearest EL club (all of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Berwick, Workington, Newcastle and Redcar in relation to Belle Vue and then there's also Plymouth in relation to Poole or Swindon).

 

Why that's very significant is that such extra distances were likely to put off some of the younger riders better suited by a PL draft from entering such a scheme simply because they couldn't commit themselves to the risk of being drafted by a club based too far away from their home ... you must remember quite a few of the potential PL draft candidates would've been relying on parents/friends/mechanics to drive them to-&-from meetings so even if the rider himself wants to commit to speedway full-time, there's still the need to rely on that sort of help from others who do have jobs away from the sport and, therefore, might not be able to spare the time required to help a PL draft rider reach all that league's far-flung outposts.

 

I can understand "stevebrum" (clearly with much more of an EL-background) reckoning the PL hasn't pulled its weight on this whole draft concept ... what's your response to the obstacles I've just explained above.

My understanding is that it was indeed the third point mentioned in the above post that was seen as the major obstacle in the PL coming on board with the scheme.

 

The unfortunate fact is that the majority of FTDR riders are located more towards the southern end of the country and since many of them have jobs as well that creates major problems in travelling to the Northern clubs on a regular basis for home meetings. Those who are quick to criticise the PL's stance need to consider the logistics.

Edited June 4, 2014 by E I Addio

[Royal Box]

Admission prices need looking at..

Elite League £17/£18

Prem League £17, anyone pay less or more, both leagues?

Kings Lynn £16 to watch a good team on a good track - feel very lucky tbh.

[guesty1992]

Tom Perry says he was "disappointed" but "wasn't shocked" when Leicester told him they were releasing him from the team. Read a full statement from Tom at: http://tomperryracing.co/2014/06/05/perry-disappointed-but-not-shocked-by-leicester-decision/