Fast Track Riders

[mrcts]

What happens with the current draft riders at the end of the present season.....surely the likes of Blackbird,Kerr and Steve Worrall won't be allowed another season in the reserve berths...how could that be fair on the other teams.

I can see those riders only getting Premier League places next season........hopefully!

[MattK]

That is the 64,000 dollar question. There will be some incredible self-interest based decisions at the next AGM where the clubs with draft riders as assets push for them to be included and other clubs arguing against.

[LagutaRacingFan]

What happens with the current draft riders at the end of the present season.....surely the likes of Blackbird,Kerr and Steve Worrall won't be allowed another season in the reserve berths...how could that be fair on the other teams.

I can see those riders only getting Premier League places next season........hopefully!

 

 

That is the 64,000 dollar question. There will be some incredible self-interest based decisions at the next AGM where the clubs with draft riders as assets push for them to be included and other clubs arguing against.

 

Speedway is corrupt and all about self-interests.

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

Surely it will be up to the riders to withdraw themselves from the FTD system. More earning potential in the main body of the team, the ambitious riders will WANT to progress into a teams 1-5.

[LagutaRacingFan]

Surely it will be up to the riders to withdraw themselves from the FTD system. More earning potential in the main body of the team, the ambitious riders will WANT to progress into a teams 1-5.

 

So Lewis Kerr will want to go from 10 points a meeting to 2 points?

 

[Alan_Jones]

There's an interesting interview with Jon Cook in this week's Spar. He expects the riders EL averages to continue to be ignored with the progress of the riders, in general, to be determined by the PL average of the no. 6s and NL average of the no. 7s with 3 or 4 moving up into the 1-5 over the next couple of seasons. They are having a meeting on Tuesday to discuss the future of the scheme rather than wait until November.

 

There are a couple of quotes which show a refreshing attitude which could have wider implications than to just the FTRD programme.

 

"As an Elite League, we've taken our hands off the wheel and we're letting Phil [Morris] drive us. I won't pre-empt what Phil's ideas are, but they've been pretty good so far, so we're looking forward to hearing them and how we move forward."

 

"I think it's another fantastic lesson for the sport - we've had the faith to let someone else drive the project without interference from us. That's something that points the way for us in the future. Rather than turning up at AGMs with a list of what we need, maybe we leave a bit of the decision making to experts in a different field."

Edited June 6, 2014 by Alan_Jones

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

 

So Lewis Kerr will want to go from 10 points a meeting to 2 points?

 

Rather have a young local improving rider scoring '2' points in a meeting rather than some foreign rider coming over and riding on borrowed equipment on a false average. Ask yourself, which would be better for the sport in the UK in the long run?

 

Ellis, Blackbird, Kerr, Garrity, Newman could all score 4 pts in the main body IMO, remember they themselves would still be riding against new FTD riders in a lot of their heats too.

 

Personally, I think the FTD system should run in it's current guise for another season (allowing riders to opt out at the end of this season if they want). After 2 seasons, the number of FTD riders should be reduced to one per team, with the other reserve berth going to a British rider under the age of 25 whose average could be converted from their PL or Actual EL average and who would come under normal team building points limits of say 36 points?

 

Glad Phil Morris seems to be running the FTD agenda not the Promoters which can only be positive too.

[BluPanther]

The badly implemented draft, although a great idea if it was done correctly, will be shown up for what it is at the AGM. Daggers will be drawn, and self interest will be the order of the day. A live stream of that would be worth watching...

[mrcts]

I can't see any benefit in the fast track system at all.......it's just the same riders beating the same riders they face in the Premier and National leagues....how can that "improve" riders.

Take Kings Lynn for example they have won 12 out of 13 matches.......have Kings Lynn got a better 1-5 than most other teams,I would say no,the simple fact they are winning is due to the ringers at reserve,Kerr is a 7 point rider in the premier league and he was last season too........is that fair.

If I had my way only 1 rider would be a draft reserve,riding at no7 and 21 years old and under and the Premier League to do likewise.

[SteveLyric2]

The badly implemented draft, although a great idea if it was done correctly, will be shown up for what it is at the AGM. Daggers will be drawn, and self interest will be the order of the day. A live stream of that would be worth watching...

As it says in the Star, the promoters are not waiting til the AGM, they are having their first meeting on Tuesday 10th June - next week!!

There's an interesting interview with Jon Cook in this week's Spar. He expects the riders EL averages to continue to be ignored with the progress of the riders, in general, to be determined by the PL average of the no. 6s and NL average of the no. 7s with 3 or 4 moving up into the 1-5 over the next couple of seasons. They are having a meeting on Tuesday to discuss the future of the scheme rather than wait until November.

 

There are a couple of quotes which show a refreshing attitude which could have wider implications than to just the FTRD programme.

 

"As an Elite League, we've taken our hands off the wheel and we're letting Phil [Morris] drive us. I won't pre-empt what Phil's ideas are, but they've been pretty good so far, so we're looking forward to hearing them and how we move forward."

 

"I think it's another fantastic lesson for the sport - we've had the faith to let someone else drive the project without interference from us. That's something that points the way for us in the future. Rather than turning up at AGMs with a list of what we need, maybe we leave a bit of the decision making to experts in a different field."

 

 

...and the following week they are meeting in either the local Co-op or possibly Tesco Express!!!!

[BluPanther]

As it says in the Star, the promoters are not waiting til the AGM, they are having their first meeting on Tuesday 10th June - next week!!

 

That tells you it was never properly thought through in the first place. A brit and one draft rider at 6 & 7 would have been the best option IMO...

[waiheke1]

Take Kings Lynn for example they have won 12 out of 13 matches.......have Kings Lynn got a better 1-5 than most other teams,I would say no,the simple fact they are winning is due to the ringers at reserve,Kerr is a 7 point rider in the premier league and he was last season too........is that fair..

The fact they have the strongest heat leader trio and most improved second strings in the league doesn't have anything to do with them winning then?

[SCB]

The fact they have the strongest heat leader trio and most improved second strings in the league doesn't have anything to do with them winning then?

Exactly. They built their team the perfect way for this format IMO. On top of that they got 2 godo sub 4 pointers two gaining once again. Plus they do have the best reserve pairing but I think even with one of the worst reserve pairings they'd be doing just fine.

 

As for BV liking it and Swindon not, BV are used to poor teams and poor reserves so anything is an improvement. Swindon are generally used to better teams and better reserves in recent times (last 10 years)

[BTFC LION]

Just a few things to look at, Lions have had 12 meetings, 5 at home, 7 away.

 

Wolves. Home, Lions top 5. 39 points. Wolves top 5. 35 points. Lions Res. 5 points. Wolves Res 11 points.

 

Lakeside. Away. Lions top 5. 34 points. Lake top 5. 42 points. Lions Res. 8 points. Lake Res. 10 points.

 

Eastbourne. Away. Lions top 5. 30 points. East top 5. 44 points. Lions Res. 7 points. East Res. 8 points.

.

Lakeside. Home. Lions top 5. 39 points. Lake top 5. 35 points. Lions Res. 9 points. Lake Res. 6 points.

 

B.V. Away. Lions top 5. 27 points. B.V. top 5. 44 points. Loins Res. 8 points. B.V. Res. 12 points.

 

Cov. Away. Lions top 5. 35 points. Cov top 5. 39 points. Lions Res. 7 points. Cov Res. 9 points.

 

Cov. Home. Lions top 5. 34 points. Cov top 5. 38 points. Lions Res 6 points. Cov Res 12 points.

 

Eastbourne. Home. Loins top 5. 42 points. East top 5. 29 points. Lions Res 7 points. East Res 12 points.

 

K. Lynn. Away. Lions top 5. 41 points. K.Lynn top 5. 35 points. Lions Res. 2 points. K.Lynn Res 18 points.

 

B.V. Home. Lions top 5. 37 points. B.V. top 5. 40 points. Lions Res. 13 points. B.V. Res. 3 points.

 

Eastbourne. Away. Lions top 5. 35 points. East top 5. 38 points. Lions Res 1 point. East Res. 17 points.

 

Swindon. Away. Lions top 5. 33 points. Swin top 5. 34 points. Lions Res. 7 points. Swin Res. 14 points.

 

 

Just a couple of points, the Lions reserves have only out scored their opponents on 2 occasions, we won both of the meetings. The Lions top 5 have out scored their opponents on 4 occasions but only won 2 of the matches.

 

Out of interest how does this compare to other clubs??

[waiheke1]

So three of twelve of your meeings would have had a different result if the reserves on both sides had scored the same - that's in line with the run rate for the competition as a whole.

[E I Addio]

I can't see any benefit in the fast track system at all.......it's just the same riders beating the same riders they face in the Premier and National leagues....how can that "improve" riders.

 

 

 

The way it improves riders is that the majority of NL riders are very naïve and inexperienced on things like racing lines and especially bike set-up's and a large number of PL riders are not much better , but if the senior EL riders bother with the FTDR riders (which many of them do ) it is a terrific learning curve for them, and many have said they have gained experience and knowledge they wouldn't get elsewhere.

 

Take Ben Morley for example .At an early season meeting he had set-up similar the Dave Watt's but it wasn't working for him so they changed to a set-up similar to Lewis Bridger's and he was flying so Ben is learning what he wouldn't have got from the NL, he was learning from top riders the intricacies of set-ups, that what works for one rider doesn't work for, and learning how different combinations of things work differently. he now takes that back to Kent Kings where he is regularly banging in good scores as one of their best heat-leader, so that in turn marks him as a man to beat in that league , so over time as the FTDR riders take their experience back to the NL the standard of that league will improve.

 

The FTDR is not going to change anything overnight but its difficult to fault it in the long term if the various shortcomings can be ironed out, which with Phil Morris driving it, they probably will. Most people seem to be happy with it though.

 

Of course, it depends to some extent on senior riders bothering with the FTDR riders. When fans complain about their clubs FTDR riders they also have to ask how much the senior riders and the TM are bothering with them . Taking Poole as an example I was pretty obvious that Lee Smart was never going to get much help because its the sort of club where it easier to get rid of a rider rather than work with him, but a lot of FTDR riders have been quoted as saying the experience has been beneficial.

[Jonny the spud]

 

 

The way it improves riders is that the majority of NL riders are very naïve and inexperienced on things like racing lines and especially bike set-up's and a large number of PL riders are not much better , but if the senior EL riders bother with the FTDR riders (which many of them do ) it is a terrific learning curve for them, and many have said they have gained experience and knowledge they wouldn't get elsewhere.

 

Take Ben Morley for example .At an early season meeting he had set-up similar the Dave Watt's but it wasn't working for him so they changed to a set-up similar to Lewis Bridger's and he was flying so Ben is learning what he wouldn't have got from the NL, he was learning from top riders the intricacies of set-ups, that what works for one rider doesn't work for, and learning how different combinations of things work differently. he now takes that back to Kent Kings where he is regularly banging in good scores as one of their best heat-leader, so that in turn marks him as a man to beat in that league , so over time as the FTDR riders take their experience back to the NL the standard of that league will improve.

 

The FTDR is not going to change anything overnight but its difficult to fault it in the long term if the various shortcomings can be ironed out, which with Phil Morris driving it, they probably will. Most people seem to be happy with it though.

 

Of course, it depends to some extent on senior riders bothering with the FTDR riders. When fans complain about their clubs FTDR riders they also have to ask how much the senior riders and the TM are bothering with them . Taking Poole as an example I was pretty obvious that Lee Smart was never going to get much help because its the sort of club where it easier to get rid of a rider rather than work with him, but a lot of FTDR riders have been quoted as saying the experience has been beneficial.

Have to step in just on the last bit there. My son ( Adam Ellis) guested for Poole and he said he learned lots in terms of set up etc and the other riders were very helpful.

[E I Addio]

 

Personally, I think the FTD system should run in it's current guise for another season (allowing riders to opt out at the end of this season if they want). After 2 seasons, the number of FTD riders should be reduced to one per team, with the other reserve berth going to a British rider under the age of 25 whose average could be converted from their PL or Actual EL average and who would come under normal team building points limits of say 36 points?

 

 

 

But what is that going to cost ? If a rider like Garritty is no in the draft and open to the highest bidder on a lowish average whose cheque-book will secure his services will get him , Poole or Eastbourne ? The thing that we mustn't loose sight of is that the whole thing was brought in primarily to save money because some clubs were suffering eye -watering losses and more would have gone the way of Peterborough if drastic measures weren't taken. Costs are going to be the watch-word for the short-term future and whatever is done is going to have to be within strict financial limits, but I don't think we will get a better bloke to be driving it than Phil Morris.

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

I can't see any benefit in the fast track system at all.......it's just the same riders beating the same riders they face in the Premier and National leagues....how can that "improve" riders.

Take Kings Lynn for example they have won 12 out of 13 matches.......have Kings Lynn got a better 1-5 than most other teams,I would say no,the simple fact they are winning is due to the ringers at reserve,Kerr is a 7 point rider in the premier league and he was last season too........is that fair.

If I had my way only 1 rider would be a draft reserve,riding at no7 and 21 years old and under and the Premier League to do likewise

 

Have King's Lynn got a better 1-5 than most of the teams? Yes. Quite clearly yes. 2 GP riders, and a 2 time EL riders champion backed up with the Danish U21 champion and then there's the best young talent in British Speedway for a long long time. Kerr has been fantastic but to pin all of Lynn's success on him at reserve is ludicrous.

[Leicester Lion]

 

 

But what is that going to cost ? If a rider like Garritty is no in the draft and open to the highest bidder on a lowish average whose cheque-book will secure his services will get him , Poole or Eastbourne ? The thing that we mustn't loose sight of is that the whole thing was brought in primarily to save money because some clubs were suffering eye -watering losses and more would have gone the way of Peterborough if drastic measures weren't taken. Costs are going to be the watch-word for the short-term future and whatever is done is going to have to be within strict financial limits, but I don't think we will get a better bloke to be driving it than Phil Morris.

You've said Phil Morris is driving it. What exactly does he do to drive it?