Fast Track Riders

[Steve0]

GRW123 - now let me guess - you are a Stars fan - that explains your positivity about the new format! In the real world - it is a crock!

[Haza]

GRW123 - now let me guess - you are a Stars fan - that explains your positivity about the new format! In the real world - it is a crock!

and in the real world had you a 6/7 like Kerr and Rose and 10 points clear at the top of the league you'd be positive about it too .

[Steve0]

Aha ha, I remember you telling everyone how unfair the old system was when Gjedde scored 20 points from reserve at Belle Vue, clinching the win for an otherwise ordinary Swindon team and then McGowan copping a 15 point max from reserve the following season.

 

Glad to hear you are still singing the same tune even though the boot is on the other foot, NOT!

Not exactly the crappy foreigners you were talking about then

 

Even in your mind, I don't see how you could link the two situations - and what boot is on the other foot? We only won the league for the first time in an eternity in 2012 (without the reserve superstars scoring you mentioned above)

 

My point is about the continual watering down of the EL and the draft system being a step too far including the new format - that's my opinion and I won't lose any sleep knowing you disagree!

and in the real world had you a 6/7 like Kerr and Rose and 10 points clear at the top of the league you'd be positive about it too .

You might be right but I would think I would still see the imbalance of the draft system that cannot be rectified within the rules!

[Leicester Hunter]

 

6 out of seven is pretty good in my book. Why aren't you on the BSPA Committee ??

Fairly self explanatory really - anyone getting six out seven questions right on a BSPA test would be generally considered too bright to go on it.....

 

I'd make it mandatory that baring genuine injuries (not fake ones eh Matty?) no rider can be replaced until he has completed 3 home and 3 away meetings.

 

 

On the contrary, the wording I would have used with the rule would have been Barring genuine injury which would necessitate one month or more out of action, you stick by your chosen FT riders all season come what may. Some teams might have been more careful about their choices then.

[Haza]

Ok Kings Lynn have benefited but the club has run a NL team for some years when others hasn't also we assembled a team with 3 strong heat leaders though plenty of clubs wouldn't want Schlien he has his critics at other clubs also a 3 pointer in Lambert straight in to an EL team at 16 again plenty of people said he'd be out of his depth and we also included a young Dane Porsing that the season before hadn't set the league alight so this team had massive risks when it was put together , but going back to the draft riders isn't it all about trying to find new talent riders that progress to the very top if Kerr and Blackbird and Steve Worrell go on to ride at the highest level the draft will with out doubt benifit all clubs and British speedway

[superguest]

The reserves should be incorporated back into the overall points limit so you don't end up with a team having strong heatleaders & Reserves. I would use the averages the FTR have earnt, and divide it by 2.5, so for example Lewis Blackbird's 9.00pt average becomes 3.6 and then allow teams to sign riders like Nathan Greaves on a 0.00pt average. All new draft riders and 0.00pt, to go back into the draft that can be picked up by the lowest ranking team first, on a 0.00pt.

 

That said, teams still need to invest in British riders ala Kings Lynn for their to be a pool of riders for all teams to use, so that is where the real attention needs to be focused this winter.= A FTR Investment scheme for those who can't

 

As for the race format,

 

If heat 12 became the 2nd reserve race and heat 14 had the teams 3+4's, then the FTR were given two races against each other and two where they are up against 2nd Strings.

Edited June 1, 2014 by superguest

[Steve0]

You just can't help yourself can you?

In the infamous Gjedde meeting Swindon had the brilliant foreigner Tomasz Chrzanowski (2 points easily covered by Gjedde's 20) he should have been at reserve but his assessed average meant he was able to be replaced by a much better rider, we haven't got these crap foreigners this season have we?

In the McGowan meeting Pavlic fills the gap of useless foreigner with 1 point, not as bad as the pole but despite his dad building a track for him to ride from the age of 6 months he still isn't as good as Swindon thought.

What's even more funny about Pavlic is we had a look at him because we'd heard the hype and decided he wasn't good enough for the money he wanted, Swindon heard about our interest and just paid the ££££s ha ha!

Let's face it, there is probably only one other team with a fetish for rubbish foreigners as big as Swindon's, surely you must be grateful for the draft helping overcome that embarrassing problem? Or has it made it worse, lol!

You were talking about crappy foreigners at reserve and then provide no evidence of this but instead talk about them in 1-5 positions which has no bearing on the discussion. You seem to have a massive potato on your shoulder (I would have said chip but it's more than one) and appear to have a memory of an elephant - making reference to the "infamous" Gjedde meeting - only to you maybe.

 

Anyway we managed to offload a spent Gjedde to BV so not much for you to laugh about there. Talking about infamous, the most memorable infamous situation was at BV last year with "bowser gate" so, if I were you, I would keep to the topic of discussion and not irrelevant memories

[g13webb]

The reserves should be incorporated back into the overall points limit so you don't end up with a team having strong heatleaders & Reserves. I would use the averages the FTR have earnt, and divide it by 2.5, so for example Lewis Blackbird's 9.00pt average becomes 3.6 and then allow teams to sign riders like Nathan Greaves on a 0.00pt average. All new draft riders and 0.00pt, to go back into the draft that can be picked up by the lowest ranking team first, on a 0.00pt.

Obviously I disagree with what you say. making the FTR a separate entity enables teams not be configured using their CMA. I notice you used 2 extremes in Blackbird and Greaves. 1 is a Class A draft and the other is a B draft listed rider. If you notice the revised list is updated each month, depending on their progression

 

That said, teams still need to invest in British riders ala Kings Lynn for their to be a pool of riders for all teams to use, so that is where the real attention needs to be focused this winter.= A FTR Investment scheme for those who can't

 

Good idea.

 

As for the race format,

 

If heat 12 became the 2nd reserve race and heat 14 had the teams 3+4's, then the FTR were given two races against each other and two where they are up against 2nd Strings.

 

The present format provides the FTR the same opportunity as you suggest.. They have 2 races against their opposite Nos, and 2 against the opposite 2nd strings. Having heats 12 and 14 for 2nd string and reserve races, it put those riders into the business end of the meetings and the results are not governed by top end riders all the time..

 

I like the idea of having a pool for FTR riders, but I believe this can only be achieved by each club investing into it. Obviously Lynn has benefited from the draft system, but we have invested in the National League for some time. Recently, when our FTR rider Lewis Rose got injured, instead of getting cover from others sources, we used Darren Mallett, another of Lynn's youngster. He wasn't up to the grade at the moment, but the experience he gained will benefit him and us in the years to come.. Hopefully next year....

These young riders don't just happen, They have to be taught, they need help and that's what Lynn and Buster are good at......... Probably your club should do something similar.

[E I Addio]

I think the majority of matches are more closely fought, and results are not so clear-cut than was usually the case.. Whether this new format was stumbled on by chance, or was designed specifically for this purpose, I believe this is the most positive move that has been made for years. Long may it continue.......)

.)

 

No , rather then always moaning about new ideas, probably best if we look at the positives, and this year there has been a lot........

 

 

Is this the same GRW123 that only 3 months ago was telling us all that the FTDR system was so poorly thought out it would have to be abandoned before the season was finished ?

[g13webb]

 

 

Is this the same GRW123 that only 3 months ago was telling us all that the FTDR system was so poorly thought out it would have to be abandoned before the season was finished ?

 

Do I sense some form of self righteousness here .

No doubt your referring to the time when we knew nothing, being kept in the dark, treated like mushrooms. Never have I say it would be abandoned, that's was your interpretation. All I wanted was to be kept informed of such a radical change. Nothing wrong in that. I was trying to keep people aware of some of the issues and the problems with implementing such an idea. We are still waiting on the 'Average loading' , to bring some form of equality to the CMA scores, But that can be done later...... No problem with that.

 

I still think the FTDR system has flaws, but given time it can be of great benefit to the sport, There're plenty of positives that's come from it.

[Steve0]

I still think the FTDR system has flaws, but given time it can be of great benefit to the sport, There're plenty of positives that's come from it.

 

KL walking the league?

[foreverblue]

 

I didn't see you doing much moaning when Swindon were second best in the league and only best in the pokc due to their advantage at reserve.[/quote

But when you had a absent reserve rider under the old system you could replace him with one of similar ability now you cant because there are so few to choose from.

[mikebv]

 

I didn't see you doing much moaning when Swindon were second best in the league and only best in the pokc due to their advantage at reserve.[/quote

But when you had a absent reserve rider under the old system you could replace him with one of similar ability now you cant because there are so few to choose from.

I don't know steve worrall and charlie wright have been quite busy so far.....

[g13webb]

GRW123 - now let me guess - you are a Stars fan - that explains your positivity about the new format! In the real world - it is a crock!

 

They say 'some can't see the wood for the trees', You seem to have a massive problem with Kings Lynn at the moment. I do hope that isn't born out of jealously, of where we are in the league, or for what Buster and Rob Lyon have achieved, and is more about problems within the sport..........

 

When decisions were made at the AGM about the points limits and restrictions, all the promoters knew the score. Each went their own way to assemble a team within these restraints and hoped it would be a success. Buster and Rob were no different. They took a gamble, a big gamble to use untried 2nd strings, which enabled Lynn to use the points available on 3 strong Heatleaders. Before the season started, there were many poster who thought this would be our undoing, but it's been proved successful.

 

As for the FTR, I appreciate your team was let down over the Josh Bates problem, but that doesn't make the system wrong. There was always going to be some clubs who moaned about weak riders, that's the way it is sometimes. I'm sure if Kerr and Rose were your assets you would have been well satisfied with the new system.

 

Kings Lynn is not just about Kerr and Rose, They have complimented the ideal team set up, that Buster and Rob have assembled. Sure, they've made a difference to any team and Lynn knows that. But what's going to happen next year? Is your team doing anything to invest in new talent, have they got any assets ready to use.

 

It may surprise you, but Kings Lynn have all them bases covered already....... Probably other clubs should take a leaf out of Lynn's book.........

[stevebrum]

 

I didn't see you doing much moaning when Swindon were second best in the league and only best in the pokc due to their advantage at reserve.[/quote

But when you had a absent reserve rider under the old system you could replace him with one of similar ability now you cant because there are so few to choose from.

 

 

Under the old system is was hardly any different. If other teams were riding then you would often have guests well below the similar ability standard.

[stevebrum]

Absobloodyexactly!

 

Everything the draft whingers have been going on about has been part of speedway since Johnnie Hoskins (who I was lucky enough to meet at Canterbury one afternoon) was involved.

 

 

Seems some are determined to grind it down instead of embracing it, all in the name of hating anything that further weakens the EL product.

Id much rather have British kids fighting for their future than hopeless over rated foreigners who use our league and do more harm than good.

 

Perhaps in 5 years time if we have a team worthy of a World Cup challenge only then some will finally see the bigger picture.

Its the best thing the promoters have done in a long time (albeit out of necessity to save money).

 

Its the PL that is now causing more harm to British speedway by there own stubborn stance to not change.

[Steve0]

 

They say 'some can't see the wood for the trees', You seem to have a massive problem with Kings Lynn at the moment. I do hope that isn't born out of jealously, of where we are in the league, or for what Buster and Rob Lyon have achieved, and is more about problems within the sport..........

 

When decisions were made at the AGM about the points limits and restrictions, all the promoters knew the score. Each went their own way to assemble a team within these restraints and hoped it would be a success. Buster and Rob were no different. They took a gamble, a big gamble to use untried 2nd strings, which enabled Lynn to use the points available on 3 strong Heatleaders. Before the season started, there were many poster who thought this would be our undoing, but it's been proved successful.

 

As for the FTR, I appreciate your team was let down over the Josh Bates problem, but that doesn't make the system wrong. There was always going to be some clubs who moaned about weak riders, that's the way it is sometimes. I'm sure if Kerr and Rose were your assets you would have been well satisfied with the new system.

 

Kings Lynn is not just about Kerr and Rose, They have complimented the ideal team set up, that Buster and Rob have assembled. Sure, they've made a difference to any team and Lynn knows that. But what's going to happen next year? Is your team doing anything to invest in new talent, have they got any assets ready to use.

 

It may surprise you, but Kings Lynn have all them bases covered already....... Probably other clubs should take a leaf out of Lynn's book.........

I do not have any problems with KL at all - they deserve their success and I will be very surprised if they don't win the league this year (assuming injuries don't hit like they did last year when KL were my tip to win it too). The issues I have is primarily with the draft - the way it was arranged, the further dilution of the league and the inability for a team to strengthen to compete with other teams where reserves are going well.

 

 

Seems some are determined to grind it down instead of embracing it, all in the name of hating anything that further weakens the EL product.

Id much rather have British kids fighting for their future than hopeless over rated foreigners who use our league and do more harm than good.

 

Perhaps in 5 years time if we have a team worthy of a World Cup challenge only then some will finally see the bigger picture.

Its the best thing the promoters have done in a long time (albeit out of necessity to save money).

 

Its the PL that is now causing more harm to British speedway by there own stubborn stance to not change.

I can see the bigger picture and can see what they are trying to do - but they can equally get that experience in the PL. It IS a watering down of the EL as a way of saving money and no matter how you wrap it up that is how I see it.

 

Perhaps in 5 years time there won't be enough supporters to sustain EL speedway in this country - and will you still be saying how great this idea is?

 

In my opinion, this is one of the worst things that the promoters have done in recent times - the idea may be a good one but the execution has been poor. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and it is different from mine. In 5 years time we will see if we were looking at the right bigger picture or not.

[g13webb]

I can see the bigger picture and can see what they are trying to do - but they can equally get that experience in the PL. It IS a watering down of the EL as a way of saving money and no matter how you wrap it up that is how I see it.

 

Perhaps in 5 years time there won't be enough supporters to sustain EL speedway in this country - and will you still be saying how great this idea is?

 

In my opinion, this is one of the worst things that the promoters have done in recent times - the idea may be a good one but the execution has been poor. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and it is different from mine. In 5 years time we will see if we were looking at the right bigger picture or not.

 

I believe the biggest problem British Speedway has, is trying to compete with other countries like Poland, Sweden and Denmark. We ( UK) cannot sustain that level of finance. It is well known the difference in earning potential a rider can earn abroad so we will always be at the bottom of most riders priorities. I also feel it be best to promote a product that we can afford.

We have about half a dozen top riders of the world in our league, and I feel we should be grateful for that. If you call that dilution then so be it. We need to get real and appreciate speedway will never be the force it once was, where all the top riders rode in our league. Now we have to make do with what can be achieved. If that is to incorporate draft riders, into our league, then so be it.

It is possible to get good racing and thoroughly enjoy a speedway meeting without the necessity of all top riders. What this new format has done, is bring lesser riders into the limelight. and that has to be beneficial in the long run.....

 

Appreciate your opinions....

[stevebrum]

 

I can see the bigger picture and can see what they are trying to do - but they can equally get that experience in the PL. It IS a watering down of the EL as a way of saving money and no matter how you wrap it up that is how I see it.

 

Perhaps in 5 years time there won't be enough supporters to sustain EL speedway in this country - and will you still be saying how great this idea is?

 

In my opinion, this is one of the worst things that the promoters have done in recent times - the idea may be a good one but the execution has been poor. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and it is different from mine. In 5 years time we will see if we were looking at the right bigger picture or not.

 

 

I don't disagree with you on the issue of a poor execution. It should have implemented by ALL leagues with only 1 Draft rider per team. Rightly so some of the lesser experienced riders need the PL experience far more than the EL. In saying that some of the `lesser` lights like Morley as an example are beating EL standard riders, fact.

 

We all know the EL is being watered down further with each passing season and is contributing to more and more supporters not believing the standard is worth the money - i fully understand and see why some feel that way.

 

If you had a team in the top 4 with a pick of the reserves like Kings Lynn have i wonder if you're stance would be the same??

Wolves are performing mediocre at present and we have a decent couple of reserves so i am hardly coming from a bias or blinkered perspective.

 

Anything that helps the FUTURE of British riders is always going to get my support and i fully endorse it.

We have seen some excellent youngsters make a name for themselves in the EL because of the draft system, so yes i believe its working well but i do hope the PL will join in the development of ALL our future. I doubt they will however.

[foreverblue]

 

 

Under the old system is was hardly any different. If other teams were riding then you would often have guests well below the similar ability standard.

There are far less options open to teams if a reserve rider is absent and because of the emphasis put on the reserves it will become more and more difficult to cover them, especially when there better reserve is absent. I agree with the idea of getting British riders to rider at a higher level but there doesn't seem to be enough of them.