Fast Track Riders

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

I think there is a stronger correlation between improved track preparation and good crowds, than there is between the FTD system and poor crowds.

[Falcon Hammer]

It's a bit early to judge the crowd levels, with the recent poor weather - hopefully the summer sunshine is on it's way and attendances will rise

[Steve0]

Doubling down was already in existence before the EL dropped their bombshell with the draft system. To the credit of the PL, they have played a full part in trying to make the system work, as it is them that provide the riders, in addition to the handful from the NL.

Yes - but in fairness, previously the PL got priority on all D/U (or D/D) riders - leaving the EL to find replacements. Now we have the same situation except that the EL get priority for their own assets.

 

This shows the cooperation from the EL because why on earth would a second tier league get priority over a top tier? Only in speedway.

 

So its not the PL cooperation that is keeping the EL afloat!

[BluPanther]

Care to substantiate that claim? In only 2 of the first nine away victories were the reserve scores the deciding factor. I presume you must have the stats for home victories, or did you just make that clsim up with no factual basis?

Personally seen 8 Elite Lge meetings this year, and the team with a high scoring reserve has won every match. Trouble is, these high scoring reserves will not move into the 1-5 as in the past, but remain at reserve. The teams with the worst reserves are at the wrong end of the table, and that's where they will stay. Poole have a tremendous 1-5, but have lost their last two at home because they are limited at reserve. The draft was badly implemented, and has actually put some deserving British riders out of work in the Elite...

[stevebrum]

Doubling down was already in existence before the EL dropped their bombshell with the draft system. To the credit of the PL, they have played a full part in trying to make the system work, as it is them that provide the riders, in addition to the handful from the NL.

 

 

My point was in relation to the fact that more and more EL riders taking advantage of doubling down is enriching the PL over the past few years.

 

The other point you make i fail to see. How have the PL` played a full part in trying to make the system work, as it is them that provide the riders`?

 

Some EL clubs already own the draft riders so the PL and mostly NL provide the rest. Just like the EL provides extra riders for the PL and likewise the PL provides extra riders to double up.

Edited May 30, 2014 by stevebrum

[BluPanther]

 

The exception to that of course was when a team included a dodgy foreigner and his assessed average put him in the 1-5 but he was so crap he ended up not only at reserve but was crap at reserve as well.

And the team had the opportunity to sack him and sign a replacement. This season you cannot improve the side, the teams with a naff reserve pairing will win absolutely nothing, its game over for those teams already..Complete nonsense..

[T.N.T.]

There should be a strong link between the Elite and Premier League tracks but sadly each operates as their own business instead of one big organisation working together under one banner of BRITISH SPEEDWAY.

 

 

The BSPA Committee is made up of both EL and PL promoters but when it comes to setting limits, rules etc the EL vote for their league and the PL vote for theirs and I feel it should be the job of the BSPA Committee to work on a plan to promote the sport and riders together and not split into two.

 

 

Ideally there should also be a Committee set up of 5-7 former riders, referees and promoters that operate as a judicial board and rtubber stamp new proposals that will see the sport move forward and make it more cost effective for the tracks, riders and spectators.

 

 

There are a few big changes that in my opinion need doing as soon as possible.

 

Firstly the PL should only have British riders in the reserve berths and not under performing foreign riders that will never reach the standard of their assessed average they first appeaed under.

 

Secondly all foreign riders will keep their assessed average until they better it and they will never have an average lower than that figure. If a PL track still wants to use Johan Foringer on a 7.00 average when he is only really averaging 4.22 then let them but this will mean they are weaker than other teams for one but most second strings and ALL reserves in the PL are British.

 

Thirdly, regardless of what they are averaging in the PL, if a rider has a 28 rolling match average above 6.00 or 7.00 in the EL then they should not be allowed to double up or down and should decide which league they want to ride in and look for extra rides in Sweden, Poland, Germany, Czech Republic etc. It is crazy that riders are riding at #1 for both EL and PL tracks.

 

 

In my opinion I would like to see these bought in for next season and the EL reduced to just one draft rider and the format changed to be more balanced with the draft rider only going out against second strings.

Edited May 30, 2014 by T.N.T.

[E I Addio]

This season you cannot improve the side,

 

 

You can improve the side . You can get the senior riders to work with the draft riders. A lot of these NL riders a re very naïve on things like set ups and how to ride certain tracks. Its not always going to make a massive improvement but most of the time there will be usually isbe

a measurable improvement . The trouble is a lot of top riders are so obsessed with their own career and their next GP they have no interest in helping the young ones a long., but a fair number of the FTDR reserves are saying how much they have benefitted from riding with EL riders.

[waiheke1]

Personally seen 8 Elite Lge meetings this year, and the team with a high scoring reserve has won every match. Trouble is, these high scoring reserves will not move into the 1-5 as in the past, but remain at reserve. The teams with the worst reserves are at the wrong end of the table, and that's where they will stay. Poole have a tremendous 1-5, but have lost their last two at home because they are limited at reserve. The draft was badly implemented, and has actually put some deserving British riders out of work in the Elite...

Of course the fact that the team that won had the highest scoring reserves does not necessarily mean that they won BECAUSE of those reserves. Anyway, I checked and out of 62 matches this season, in only 14 would the winner have been different had both teams reserves scored the same amount of points. So your claim that most meetings are being decided by the reserves is frankly bollocks.

I'll have a look at previous seasons, but id imagine that ratio will if anything be higher in previous seasons.

And yes, the likes of birks and auty have possibly missed out on el spots due to the draft, but there arr clearly more british riders in the el this year than last.

[BluPanther]

Of course the fact that the team that won had the highest scoring reserves does not necessarily mean that they won BECAUSE of those reserves. Anyway, I checked and out of 62 matches this season, in only 14 would the winner have been different had both teams reserves scored the same amount of points. So your claim that most meetings are being decided by the reserves is frankly bollocks.

I'll have a look at previous seasons, but id imagine that ratio will if anything be higher in previous seasons.

And yes, the likes of birks and auty have possibly missed out on el spots due to the draft, but there arr clearly more british riders in the el this year than last.

Half of them are not even close to being ready for the Elite Lge. Belle Vue will not make the play offs because they have poor reserves, and the statistics are open to debate. However, i guarantee the top four teams at the end of this season will not have a weak pair at reserve. A hamster could have organised this draft better..

[waiheke1]

Half of them are not even close to being ready for the Elite Lge. Belle Vue will not make the play offs because they have poor reserves, and the statistics are open to debate. However, i guarantee the top four teams at the end of this season will not have a weak pair at reserve. A hamster could have organised this draft better..

How exactly are the statistics open to debate? Surely thatd the points sbout FACTS - they prove or disprove an argument.

[TMW]

Half of them are not even close to being ready for the Elite Lge. Belle Vue will not make the play offs because they have poor reserves, and the statistics are open to debate. However, i guarantee the top four teams at the end of this season will not have a weak pair at reserve. A hamster could have organised this draft better..

You can still win a meeting if reserves aren't up to speed. It's not up to reserves to win meetings. It'sup to Heatleaders to actually win heats. Edinburgh made mince meat of Glasgow today with a reserve scoring 2. Yes if you have good reserves it will help but shouldn't be vital

Edited May 30, 2014 by TMW

[g13webb]

There should be a strong link between the Elite and Premier League tracks but sadly each operates as their own business instead of one big organisation working together under one banner of BRITISH SPEEDWAY. Agree

 

 

The BSPA Committee is made up of both EL and PL promoters but when it comes to setting limits, rules etc the EL vote for their league and the PL vote for theirs and I feel it should be the job of the BSPA Committee to work on a plan to promote the sport and riders together and not split into two. Agree

 

 

Ideally there should also be a Committee set up of 5-7 former riders, referees and promoters that operate as a judicial board and rtubber stamp new proposals that will see the sport move forward and make it more cost effective for the tracks, riders and spectators. Agree

 

 

There are a few big changes that in my opinion need doing as soon as possible.

 

Firstly the PL should only have British riders in the reserve berths and not under performing foreign riders that will never reach the standard of their assessed average they first appeaed under. Agree

 

Secondly all foreign riders will keep their assessed average until they better it and they will never have an average lower than that figure. If a PL track still wants to use Johan Foringer on a 7.00 average when he is only really averaging 4.22 then let them but this will mean they are weaker than other teams for one but most second strings and ALL reserves in the PL are British.Agree

 

Thirdly, regardless of what they are averaging in the PL, if a rider has a 28 rolling match average above 6.00 or 7.00 in the EL then they should not be allowed to double up or down and should decide which league they want to ride in and look for extra rides in Sweden, Poland, Germany, Czech Republic etc. It is crazy that riders are riding at #1 for both EL and PL tracks. Agree

 

 

In my opinion I would like to see these bought in for next season and the EL reduced to just one draft rider and the format changed to be more balanced with the draft rider only going out against second strings. Disagree

 

6 out of seven is pretty good in my book. Why aren't you on the BSPA Committee ??

Edited May 31, 2014 by GRW123

[T.N.T.]

 

6 out of seven is pretty good in my book. Why aren't you on the BSPA Committee ??

 

 

Because getting 6/7 makes me too highly qualified for the position

[TMW]

It seems to me that the only credible argument against the fast track is the difficulty teams face when one or both of their FT riders are struggling.

 

I think we can all agree that a rider struggling week in week out isn't good for anyone and will probably cause more harm than good to the FT rider concerned. Therefore a framework needs to be in place to give teams the opportunity to replace a rider. (edit some riders do ride through a long rough patch, like Lahti did for example so it may be worth sticking with the lad if he is keen)

 

Pretty simple really.

 

Give the reserves their own points limit (groan from the anti draft brigade who would prefer wobbly foreigners) of say 10 points and if the pairing total is below that figure a replacement can be signed from any willing current NL rider using his current NL average. (FT riders mainly face other FT riders who are, or should be at least, NL standard so the averages should be reasonably transferable.)

 

I'd make it mandatory that baring genuine injuries (not fake ones eh Matty?) no rider can be replaced until he has completed 3 home and 3 away meetings.

 

That's the basic premise, it's up to the clever people involved in running speedway to come up with the actual system.

 

Once we have a framework for dealing with the ONLY credible argument against the draft the whingers and those who want to see crappy foreigners return to British speedway can toddle off to find something else to whinge about.

You've got some good ideas there. Similarly for injured aswell as the rider has to replaced by same or below but the next one down could be weakish

[mdmc82]

Coventry have Garrity who is 4th on draft but due to the fact most of the riders below him all ride for a Friday track, it means they would have to use a guest 17th or below when hes missing.

That shows how the draft is faulted

[stevebrum]

Coventry have Garrity who is 4th on draft but due to the fact most of the riders below him all ride for a Friday track, it means they would have to use a guest 17th or below when hes missing.

That shows how the draft is faulted

 

 

Fail to see that is any different to injuries for your number one for example and having to use a rider with a much lower CMA because of other meetings going on.

[Crazy robin]

Nah, that's bollox I'm afraid.

 

There are teams in false positions due to riding significantly more home than away and vice versa but basically the teams at the top have the best 1-5 and the teams at the bottom have the worst 1-5.

 

The main reason poole lost at home to Coventry is the invisible man getting five extra points, man for man points earned poole were the better team and the reserves were pretty much equal.

 

The reserves probably made the difference in the KL meeting but as has been mentioned a gazillion times strong reserves have been winning matches for teams since for ever! The advantage of a strong reserve this season is much less than in previous seasons.

 

Strong reserves moving into the 1-5 were just replaced by another rider who usually did well in the easier reserve races. The exception to that of course was when a team included a dodgy foreigner and his assessed average put him in the 1-5 but he was so crap he ended up not only at reserve but was crap at reserve as well.

What a load of rubbish as at least in previous seasons it was a points limit for 1-7 so if you wanted to make sure of at least one strong reserve then you did your top 5 accordingly.

 

This season the reserves are more important than ever with 2 reserve races that can have an 8 point swing let alone what they do in the rest of their rides.

[Crazy robin]

Lol!

 

One extra reserves race makes the reserves 'more important than ever'?

 

I've yet to see a reserve score a 21 point max this season, never mind 15+ which was a regular feature under the old system.

A poor pair of reserves & you're screwed & yes I can remember a lot of 21 maximums before from reserve so lord knows what that has to do with it!!.

 

Don't think regular scores of 15 were that common either.

[g13webb]

I actually posted this on another thread, but feel it should have been posted here instead.:

 

(Dated 27:05:14:- Firstly, I think it is best to forget about last year and the riders averages. This year is a whole new ball-game. You say the new format calls for 3 heatleaders, but it also calls for good 2nd strings and good reserves.

 

I think this new heat format is like a breath of fresh air. It puts more importance into all the heats. Whether you be a top rider, a decent 2nd string or a draft riders from a lower league, they are all of the same importance when getting points for the team. Gone are the days when a team with the top riders would win all the meetings, now you need to be strong in all 3 sections. Bearing in mind the points limits, if the promoter went for a strong top 3, then the points left for 2nd strings will be minimal, and the chances of decent riders will be jeopardised. It made it into a more balanced team. The heats are so designed that heat leaders only appear in 9 of them, leaving 6 races solely for 2nd strings and reserves, (A total of 30 pts on offer, that the top riders cant win.)

 

I think the majority of matches are more closely fought, and results are not so clear-cut than was usually the case.. Whether this new format was stumbled on by chance, or was designed specifically for this purpose, I believe this is the most positive move that has been made for years. Long may it continue.......)

 

(Carrying on from that:--)

 

Of cause there needs to be some tinkering here and there, but the concept has got to be far better then we had before. Gone are the day when a cash book could buy the league and that has to benefit the sport big-time. Yeah I understand that some teams have weak drafts and that those teams have the biggest gripe, but this is the first year of the scheme and all the teams will be better dialled in come next year. No doubt, them Clubs are putting plans in place now, to acquire decent FTR 's for next year.

 

There's still some way to go before it is perfect, The loading of the various CMA's has to be determined, but that can wait till the end of the season when all the score are known. The Premier League needs to come on board, and limit riders to two leagues only. ( See post 121 for some bright progressive ideas.)

 

No , rather then always moaning about new ideas, probably best if we look at the positives, and this year there has been a lot........

Edited June 1, 2014 by GRW123