steven101 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Anybody know when riders get their new averages? Be interesting to see how high the averages of some of the riders at 2 and 4 have raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 23rd of the month is usually the cut-off' date. New averages come into effect at the start of the following month! NB. Michelsen of Eastbourne gets a new rolling average this Friday which makes him a heat leader!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Nick Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 23rd of the month is usually the cut-off' date. New averages come into effect at the start of the following month! NB. Michelsen of Eastbourne gets a new rolling average this Friday which makes him a heat leader!!! Wouldn't be surprised if it makes him no1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Will be good for Poole when Milik gets his average to a level where KK can nip in as a replacement, Then KK can work his average up in the number 4 berth to a level where Holder can nip in just before the play-offs. Win Win For Poole and British Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Will be good for Poole when Milik gets his average to a level where KK can nip in as a replacement, Then KK can work his average up in the number 4 berth to a level where Holder can nip in just before the play-offs. Win Win For Poole and British Speedway. Milik has ridden 4 meetings so far (3H/1A), taking 16 rides and scoring 28+1 points - hardly 'world-beater' stats!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Milik has ridden 4 meetings so far (3H/1A), taking 16 rides and scoring 28+1 points - hardly 'world-beater' stats!!!!!! Its all about the timing. Dont want the Pirates to peek to early. Holder needs to be in situ around September time. Thats Months away. 7.25 average aint bad for a newcomer. Edited April 23, 2014 by semion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Will be good for Poole when Milik gets his average to a level where KK can nip in as a replacement, Then KK can work his average up in the number 4 berth to a level where Holder can nip in just before the play-offs. Win Win For Poole and British Speedway. This is true about the number 2 and 4 positions,not just for Poole (before Starman and Shovlar jump on me).I hope the BSPA have thought of something to stop this sort of scenario happening.No disrespect to the 2 and 4's out there but they get there averages inflated by not having the harder races as they did last year.When there averages go up you can replace them,and about 2 changes up the line you can have the likes of Holder,Hancock,Sayfutdinov and Pedersen if they wanted to do the end of the season and the play-offs. So let's hope the BSPA have thought of this and got something in place. Maybe if you wanted to replace a rider you can only replace them on their starting average or something.I don't know,it's a tricky situation really. Edited April 23, 2014 by tellboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Milik has ridden 4 meetings so far (3H/1A), taking 16 rides and scoring 28+1 points - hardly 'world-beater' stats!!!!!! Your stats are not exactly helping you. 28 pts from 16 rides gives him an average of 7.00. This is only likely to increase as he gets more dialled in, particularly at home. An example of a 4pt rider, potentially getting up to an 8pt average, at which point he could be replaced. I'm not saying he will be.. but it will become farcical if such situations occur. Edited April 23, 2014 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Your stats are not exactly helping you. 28 pts from 16 rides gives him an average of 7.00. This is only likely to increase as he gets more dialled in, particularly at home. An example of a 4pt rider, potentially getting up to an 8pt average, at which point he could be replaced. I'm not saying he will be.. but it will become farcical if such situations occur. But as I say that's from 3 home and 1 away so far. If he can't stay on the bike at home goodness knows how few he will score away - at least in the 'A' fixtures!! As far as the N0.2 riders are concerned, they are up against the opposing No 1 in heat 1 and also against the opposing 3 & 5 in heat 10 at home, so not all 'easy' rides!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Amazing really how the no 2 & 4 are easier slots yet both Swindon riders had lowered their average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) This is true about the number 2 positions,not just for Poole (before Starman and Shovlar jump on me).I hope the BSPA have thought of something to stop this sort of scenario happening.No disrespect to the 2 and 4's out there but they get there averages inflated by not having the harder races as they did last year.When there averages go up you can replace them,and about 2 changes up the line you can have the likes of Holder,Hancock,Sayfutdinov and Pedersen if they wanted to do the end of the season and the play-offs. So let's hope the BSPA have thought of this and got something in place. Maybe if you wanted to replace a rider you can only replace them on their starting average or something.I don't know,it's a tricky situation really. I'm not sure this system can be worked so far as to get a holder or emil in, but certainly the next tier rider e.g. kk. This potential issue has been flagged on numerous threads, and I don't believe bspa have anything in place to prevent it - certainly nothing in the rule book, and surely too late to amend that now. Situation is most extreme for riders like milik on an wssessed average, and therefore without the "smoothing" impact of rolling averages. Porsing at kl or palm toft at bv are prime examples of other riders who could be replaced later in the season with vastly superior riders. Milik with a 7 average I believe would become a hl atvpoole once he has an official average, and that would be the optimum time to replace him i.e. before his average drops from riding as a hl. Would the "best interests of speedway" principle stop teams doing such rider swaps? Edited April 23, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 If a rider like Michael palm toft does a year in the el and gets an average of 5 but next year wants to move back to pl will he keep his pl average or will it be his converted el average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) wouldnt any replacements still have to be within a total team figure of 35 points for the top five throughout the season?? Edited April 23, 2014 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 wouldnt any replacements still have to be within a total team figure of 35 points for the top five?? 32......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 32......... cheers.... would replacements still need to be within this figure?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Not if they replace a rider with a higher average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 cheers.... would replacements still need to be within this figure?? SR 17.4 TEAM COMPOSITION 17.4.1 A Team’s initial Declaration must include 5 Riders whose combined MA does not exceed 32.00 points. This Declaration may include a maximum of 2 x “A” grade Riders and up to 2 Doubling-Up Riders who must at the time of declaration: a) be in a Premier League’s currently declared 1 – 7, have a PL MA established prior to the start of the season and c) give absolute priority to all British Speedway fixtures. The Team is completed with 2 Riders for the 6th & 7th positions as drafted from the British Speedway FTDP List. 17.4.2 A Teams combined MA for the top 5 positions must not exceed 32.00 points nor include more than 2 x “A” grade Riders or 2 Doubling-Up Riders (satisfying the same conditions as for the initial Team Declaration) when re-declared, either permanently or temporarily, except where the MA of the introduced Rider is equal to, or lower than the Rider being replaced. Similarly only Riders with the same or lower FTDP Grading may be re-declared for the 6th or 7th positions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 SR 17.4 TEAM COMPOSITION 17.4.1 A Teams initial Declaration must include 5 Riders whose combined MA does not exceed 32.00 points. This Declaration may include a maximum of 2 x A grade Riders and up to 2 Doubling-Up Riders who must at the time of declaration: a) be in a Premier Leagues currently declared 1 7, have a PL MA established prior to the start of the season and c) give absolute priority to all British Speedway fixtures. The Team is completed with 2 Riders for the 6th & 7th positions as drafted from the British Speedway FTDP List. 17.4.2 A Teams combined MA for the top 5 positions must not exceed 32.00 points nor include more than 2 x A grade Riders or 2 Doubling-Up Riders (satisfying the same conditions as for the initial Team Declaration) when re-declared, either permanently or temporarily, except where the MA of the introduced Rider is equal to, or lower than the Rider being replaced. Similarly only Riders with the same or lower FTDP Grading may be re-declared for the 6th or 7th positions. The grading issue is where a side may be prevented from manipulating the replacement of an over performing second string with a 'genuine'heat leader.Eg (sorry Poole!!) bringing in KK for a second string wouldnt be allowed. (assuming the top 2 are already graded A and KK would be also) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 What is the definition of an "a grade" rider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) SR 17.4 TEAM COMPOSITION 17.4.1 A Team’s initial Declaration must include 5 Riders whose combined MA does not exceed 32.00 points. This Declaration may include a maximum of 2 x “A” grade Riders and up to 2 Doubling-Up Riders who must at the time of declaration: a) be in a Premier League’s currently declared 1 – 7, have a PL MA established prior to the start of the season and c) give absolute priority to all British Speedway fixtures. The Team is completed with 2 Riders for the 6th & 7th positions as drafted from the British Speedway FTDP List. 17.4.2 A Teams combined MA for the top 5 positions must not exceed 32.00 points nor include more than 2 x “A” grade Riders or 2 Doubling-Up Riders (satisfying the same conditions as for the initial Team Declaration) when re-declared, either permanently or temporarily, except where the MA of the introduced Rider is equal to, or lower than the Rider being replaced. Similarly only Riders with the same or lower FTDP Grading may be re-declared for the 6th or 7th positions. words such as 'must not' lean you into believing that the rule is, as a rule should be, ie water tight and fit for purpose, until... you then see the word 'except'..... and you then also read about 'rider grading', and start to wonder 'when did that start'? and 'who are the 'A' grade riders'? and more importantly maybe 'who within the bspa has agreed who they actually are'? as always with british speedway administration, crystal clear.... let battle commence for the winner of 'ambiguous rule manipulator of the year award'...... (I know who my money's on).... Edited April 24, 2014 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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