New Costs Coming Fir Riders

[Sotonian]

For top riders, new silencers won't add to costs either as most of them throw out/sell equipment and replace with new every year - why I have no idea. Plenty of expense can be saved if they want to.

Fine for top riders but more of a hit for those further down the pecking order.

[Vince]

Armando lives across the road from a family who own a large leather company, I believe it is a family owned business and when I was last in Italy he did not own any of the company. Armando and most of his brothers own a hotel/restaurant.

 

You just ruined 100 pages of conspiracy theory by bringing up facts, should be ashamed of yourself

[Catabracadabra]

It is about time that they bring in some ruling regarding the race suits. if you look at most of the suits being used at the moment, you will be surprised as they are mostly made of nylon with very little Kevlar material, if Kevlar is included in the suits is of very thin quality. These suits come with a high price tag due to the graphic design and time taken to print onto the material, Plus the demand for them, they have become the norm. Though most wear under armour protection, this is not checked nor is it incorporated when the bikes and helmets are examined prior to a meeting. These current suits give as much protection as a set of pyjamas, slide off the bike once and the material is torn and ruined, speedway is a professional motor sport, which is highly dangerous and expensive, no matter what level you race at the risks are the same to some degree, but on the other hand speedway is a relatively cheap sport to take part in when compared to other motorcycle and motorsports, if you can't afford a decent set of leathers that give full protection then you shouldn't be doing a Motorsport, quite simple. The sooner it's brought in the better for everyone.

[Tsunami]

It is about time that they bring in some ruling regarding the race suits. if you look at most of the suits being used at the moment, you will be surprised as they are mostly made of nylon with very little Kevlar material, if Kevlar is included in the suits is of very thin quality. These suits come with a high price tag due to the graphic design and time taken to print onto the material, Plus the demand for them, they have become the norm. Though most wear under armour protection, this is not checked nor is it incorporated when the bikes and helmets are examined prior to a meeting. These current suits give as much protection as a set of pyjamas, slide off the bike once and the material is torn and ruined, speedway is a professional motor sport, which is highly dangerous and expensive, no matter what level you race at the risks are the same to some degree, but on the other hand speedway is a relatively cheap sport to take part in when compared to other motorcycle and motorsports, if you can't afford a decent set of leathers that give full protection then you shouldn't be doing a Motorsport, quite simple. The sooner it's brought in the better for everyone.

I thought there was or had been a move to ban all nylon from suits.

[f-s-p]

I thought there was or had been a move to ban all nylon from suits.

Thats exactly whats going on now.

 

I do believe that the opening post on this thread is just a misunderstanding, since as talked last year already, the aim of the rule change was/is not to go back to leather. The purpose is to get rid of nylon.

[Tsunami]

Thats exactly whats going on now.

 

I do believe that the opening post on this thread is just a misunderstanding, since as talked last year already, the aim of the rule change was/is not to go back to leather. The purpose is to get rid of nylon.

Many thanks for that. I wasn't sure if it was a total ban, or only a ban from the important areas. Looking at some suits, in particularly Nicki P, he seems to have Kevlar with ribbed leather, particularly on the shoulders. Can see that working with Leather patches on knees, elbows and side hips, to give extra protection to the slide areas, where burn and abrasions are more likely to occur.

[SPEEDY69]

It is about time that they bring in some ruling regarding the race suits. if you look at most of the suits being used at the moment, you will be surprised as they are mostly made of nylon with very little Kevlar material, if Kevlar is included in the suits is of very thin quality. These suits come with a high price tag due to the graphic design and time taken to print onto the material, Plus the demand for them, they have become the norm. Though most wear under armour protection, this is not checked nor is it incorporated when the bikes and helmets are examined prior to a meeting. These current suits give as much protection as a set of pyjamas, slide off the bike once and the material is torn and ruined, speedway is a professional motor sport, which is highly dangerous and expensive, no matter what level you race at the risks are the same to some degree, but on the other hand speedway is a relatively cheap sport to take part in when compared to other motorcycle and motorsports, if you can't afford a decent set of leathers that give full protection then you shouldn't be doing a Motorsport, quite simple. The sooner it's brought in the better for everyone.

Below is an extract from the 2014 regulations. Whilst everything is not checked thoroughly at each meeting, the riders have to abide by the rules and in this case it's in their interest!

 

Riders must wear appropriate clothing; a one-piece suit or a combination of racing trousers,

shirt or jacket and footwear; all made of materials designed to protect Riders with leather

being of a minimum 1.0mm thickness or non-leather materials with equivalent protective

properties to leather.

12.6 Extra body protection must be worn; either incorporated within the clothing or worn separately

over appropriate undergarments.

12.6.1 If incorporated within the clothing it must include the use of padding made of leather, or

enclosed plastic foam of at least 8mm thickness covering the following areas: shoulders,

elbows, both sides of the torso (chest & back), hip joints and knees.

12.6.2 If not incorporated within the clothing, “body armour” may comprise ribbed panels of moulded

plastic with a minimum thickness of 2mm. covering the following areas: shoulders, elbows,

both sides of the torso (chest & back), hip joints and knees.

12.6.3 Undergarments, if used, may be either of the "Nomex" type, silk or cotton but not Synthetic

materials which may melt and could cause damage to a Rider’s skin in an accident.

12.6.4 Riding Suit repairs must be such that it provides protection to the same standard as the

original garment. Temporary repairs must be approved by the Machine Examiner.

12.7 Footwear, in a good state of repair, made of leather or an approved substitute and be of a

minimum height of 200mm to provide together with the suit, complete protection.

12.8 Gloves must be worn that provide suitable protection.

12.9 Goggles must be worn and together with spectacles if worn, must be shatter resistant.

12.10 Hand, face or body jewellery should be removed or covered and dentures must be removed.

Hope this helps.

[f-s-p]

That rule has been the standard for a few years and actually does not help, since the mentioned nylon suits have been aporoved worldwide. For this year the FIM put their foot down and go by the book regrding nylon-> not ok.

 

Out of interest, was that a direct copypaste from the fim book? Havent been able to do it on my own pc since the end of 2012.

[SPEEDY69]

That rule has been the standard for a few years and actually does not help, since the mentioned nylon suits have been aporoved worldwide. For this year the FIM put their foot down and go by the book regrding nylon-> not ok.

 

Out of interest, was that a direct copypaste from the fim book? Havent been able to do it on my own pc since the end of 2012.

No, this is from the 2014 British Speedway regulations. Every rider wants to be protected when racing but clubs buy their race suits here. The real issue for me is that a rider has no choice in that they can't wear leathers even if they want to - unless they have their team suit over the top, which with underclothes may make them feel a bit constrained or like michelin man!!

[f-s-p]

No, this is from the 2014 British Speedway regulations. Every rider wants to be protected when racing but clubs buy their race suits here. The real issue for me is that a rider has no choice in that they can't wear leathers even if they want to - unless they have their team suit over the top, which with underclothes may make them feel

a bit constrained or like michelin man!!

Actually the riders do have a choice... Like Timo Lahti for Eastbourne. Eastie wanted kw suits, lahti cw and he got it. Looks different to the rest of the team, not so pro IMO.

[Tsunami]

No, this is from the 2014 British Speedway regulations. Every rider wants to be protected when racing but clubs buy their race suits here. The real issue for me is that a rider has no choice in that they can't wear leathers even if they want to - unless they have their team suit over the top, which with underclothes may make them feel a bit constrained or like michelin man!!

 

Not true.

[SPEEDY69]

Actually the riders do have a choice... Like Timo Lahti for Eastbourne. Eastie wanted kw suits, lahti cw and he got it. Looks different to the rest of the team, not so pro IMO.

 

 

 

Not true.

 

f-s-p can you elaborate as I don't understand the codes - are cw leather and kw polyester/nylon/kevlar? what's the difference between cw and kw in terms of material? If the rider has the choice then if it were me, I'd be wearing a leather suit with all my sponsors logos everywhere and just the old fashioned race jacket!! Depends what you mean by having a choice - contracts can be complex things.

[f-s-p]

f-s-p can you elaborate as I don't understand the codes - are cw leather and kw polyester/nylon/kevlar? what's the difference between cw and kw in terms of material? If the rider has the choice then if it were me, I'd be wearing a leather suit with all my sponsors logos everywhere and just the old fashioned race jacket!! Depends what you mean by having a choice - contracts can be complex things.

They are manufacturers, not materials. My main point was that some riders will wear only one type of suit. Even if a team has made a deal with a manufacturer for all 7-10 riders, that doesn't mean every rider will wear that suit.

 

I've been dealing (as a middleman) with KW (top Polish company) since 2006 and all the time we have been ordering suits that have the plastic-based materials (nylon and astro nylon). It's been no secret, no one has tried to cover up any details about the fabrics used and they have been OK to use in FIM meetings. Havent done as much co-operation with CW, but we've been dealing only with the printed nylon suits that are now forbidden to use in FIM meetings. Both manufacturers have added stronger materials in important places, like shins for example to avoid burn damage from the silencer. But like said, no secrets, not By the FIM rulebook but perfectly accepted world wide in any competitions, including the World Championships and SGP.

 

Both companies will now sell you a FIM2014 approved suit. KW charges around 900 euros + extra for every logo. I dont know CW's price, since I've never seen any invoices.

 

I've said it before that leather is not the answer. I confronted Ilkka Teromaa (then CCP member) a year ago about this and he was very PRO regarding this latest rule amendment to ban nylon. But he also described in close enough detail how he himself use to get ässburns when he was sliding the track with his leather suit in the 70's...

 

I still think that you need something in between to take away the heat and friction. Changing just the top material is not the answer.

[jenga]

I wonder why Moto GP has stuck with leather? And I have asked this question before, Moto GP riders have a big back protector 'hump' in their leathers, why don't speedway riders? Didn't receive an answer, previously.

 

moto gp boys use leathers now because when you have fallen off and are travelling across the tarmac.. KEVLARS MELT TO TOUR SKIN AND THATS NOT GOOD, REMEMBER KEVLARS MELT. LEATHERS OFFER FAR MORE PROTECTION.

[SCB]

 

moto gp boys use leathers now because when you have fallen off and are travelling across the tarmac.. KEVLARS MELT TO TOUR SKIN AND THATS NOT GOOD, REMEMBER KEVLARS MELT. LEATHERS OFFER FAR MORE PROTECTION.

Kevlar does NOT melt. Nylon melts. Proper kevlar will not melt.

[XTC38L]

Road racers use leather as it doesn't transfer as much heat when sliding along the ground at 100+ mph. Kevlar does not melt but sliding along the tar a high speed would leave you with 3rd degree burns. Kevlar is fine for speedway the speeds are low enough that heat transfer isn't a problem. Nylon is a major problem it does melt and can melt into the skin. The new rules have been brought in to stop this. Forcing everyone back to leathers is not the answer but banning nylon is the right thing to do

[SCB]

Again, not true. If you are wearing proper kevlar protection. The issue is "kevlars" (as worn by speedway riders) as not kevlar but nylon. That has all the protective qualities of a t-shirt and less than that of a pair of jeans.

 

You can buy kevlar gloves that provide protection form 500C heat for 30 seconds HERE. Thats more than good enough for any speedway rider.

[XTC38L]

Again, not true. If you are wearing proper kevlar protection. The issue is "kevlars" (as worn by speedway riders) as not kevlar but nylon. That has all the protective qualities of a t-shirt and less than that of a pair of jeans.

 

You can buy kevlar gloves that provide protection form 500C heat for 30 seconds HERE. Thats more than good enough for any speedway rider.

what's not true?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Kevlar is ok for speedway because of the type of crash that happens. In road race they slide along on the tarmac when they crash so leather is needed but in speedway like motocross the crash tends to be an impact crash and no suit be it leather or nylon makes a real difference to protection .a kevlar set with a good leather peice to cover the backside bit is the perfect set for speedway. But as usual men in suits no better

[The White Knight]

Kevlar is ok for speedway because of the type of crash that happens. In road race they slide along on the tarmac when they crash so leather is needed but in speedway like motocross the crash tends to be an impact crash and no suit be it leather or nylon makes a real difference to protection .a kevlar set with a good leather peice to cover the backside bit is the perfect set for speedway. But as usual men in suits no better

What about the Jason Crump arm injury Dean?

 

It was stated at the time that his Kevlars were not up to the job. It was actually stated that he would not have been so badly hurt had he been wearing Leathers. Anything that makes things safer for Riders is OK by me.

 

I freely admit I don't know a lot about the difference between Kevlars and Leathers just that Leathers being that much thicker would, to my mind, offer better protection.

 

If you could tell me where I am wrong in my thinking - I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks Dean.

 

Ian.