LagutaRacingFan Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Bizarre twist to all this according to speedway Star. Neil Vatcher is quoted as saying that the medic declared Adam was unfit to race before he had even examined him. As Ales would say, "Curiouser and curiouser " Sometimes, You can judge a rider by the impact of their crash and how long they are down for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Bizarre twist to all this according to speedway Star. Neil Vatcher is quoted as saying that the medic declared Adam was unfit to race before he had even examined him. As Ales would say, "Curiouser and curiouser " Sounds to me like Vatcher had been sniffing too many fumes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Sounds to me like Vatcher had been sniffing too many fumes I guess you must be as bad a the medic then, making diagnosis without speaking to the person concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Sometimes, You can judge a rider by the impact of their crash and how long they are down for. In the same way that you can establish someone is an utter cretin, by the garbage he types on a Speedway forum? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Thank god the medic concerned wasn't at the U21 finals. With all of those re-starts the winner would be the only rider who hadn't fallen off. Adam himself was taken out in the first heat, I suppose the medic would have again stopped him from riding / earning his wages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Thank god the medic concerned wasn't at the U21 finals. With all of those re-starts the winner would be the only rider who hadn't fallen off. Adam himself was taken out in the first heat, I suppose the medic would have again stopped him from riding / earning his wages. Better safe than sorry, As somebody within the medical profession, the 2nd impact syndrome is on the rise and Ive seen an alarming amount of cases recently. Edited April 17, 2014 by KingKennyBjerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 What about 3rd impact syndrome, he was taken out in the second re run of the final too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 What about 3rd impact syndrome, he was taken out in the second re run of the final too ? Mandatory one month sick leave at least.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 The world's going mad. It will not be long before speedway has to be scrapped due to over-cautious medics. Was the medic's decision anything to do with Leicester being sponsored by that personal injury compensation-chasing legal company, by any chance? I can imagine riders getting pestered to sue their promoters after having had an "accident at work" !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Interesting programme notes from Neil Vatcher. After explaining to the referee that he excluded the wrong rider from Ht9, he goes on to say: "By this time Adam had made his way back to the pit area unaided. And was preparing to get his bike ready for the re-run. The Leicester paramedic was talking to Adam, and advising him not to continue due to a shoulder injury. I must stress at NO time did the paramedic examine Adam at all, never asked him to take his race-suit off, never offered him any pain relief, just presumed that he was unfit to continue. Adam said he was fit to continue, and I was happy for him to at least give it a go. We both spoke to the referee and asked him to come down to the pit area, but he refused. Adam then put his own helmet back on, got on his bike, did a practice start, and went full gas around the 3rd and 4th bend on the way to the start line for the re-run of heat 9. As Adam went on to the track, the Paramedic and Clerk of the Course approached me, saying that the referee wanted to speak to me. When I spoke to the referee he told me that the paramedic was to withdraw Adam from the remaining of the meeting, and was not allowed to compete in the re-run of heat 9. At that point I had no option but to call Adam back to the pits, and therefore we had no Hammers rider competing in the re-run of heat 9!!" Seems Adam was withdrawn without having been examined! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 It certainly sounds like Morley's exclusion in the first place was a bit bizarre and the series of events leading up to Ellis' forced withdrawal isn't what I would expect! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Lion Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 We're only hearing one side of the story. It would be interesting to hear the other, and, as often happens, the truth may well be somewhere in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 We're only hearing one side of the story. It would be interesting to hear the other, and, as often happens, the truth may well be somewhere in between.What you say about hearing one side of the story is very true. That said, I have never known Neil Vatcher to lie. Moreover, surely he would have not made such a statement publicly unless he was certain of his facts; in the same way I really can't imagine why we'd fork out a monkey for an appeal if the correct procedures had been followed. Neil's points about what happened on track are as I stated earlier. Firstly, the ref unquestionably excluded the wrong rider. Secondly, Adam was clearly ready to race - flying out of the pits and hitting the 3rd/4th bends at speed as he made his way to the tapes. And as for the comment about the MO making an assessment without any examination - that truly beggars belief in many ways. Maybe he'd like to give me 6 numbers for next Saturday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 In the same way that you can establish someone is an utter cretin, by the garbage he types on a Speedway forum? How very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 We're only hearing one side of the story. It would be interesting to hear the other, and, as often happens, the truth may well be somewhere in between. There is no mid point of truth in this case. Either the correct procedures were followed and the correct forms were completed or they were not. It is as simple as that.. The Clerk of Course and medical officer are required to be familiar with the Aide Memoire issued by the SCB which gives guidance on how their jobs must be done. The Aide Memoir to Clerks of the Course makes it clear that they have a proper supply of Injured Riders Certificates in the pits, and that they receive a copy when a rider is withdrawn from the meeting. The Aide Memoire also gives the Clerk of the Course the specific responsibility to ensure that the Medical Officer is experienced in dealing with motor cycle injuries. The Aide Memoir to Medical Officers gives clear guidance on the medical code to be followed and contains a copy of the injured riders certificate so he knows what he has to fill in. There has been mention of the fact that the medic said he knew nothing about speedway, if that is correct and if no Injured riders certificate was completed then the buck stops with the Clerk of the Course and IF there is no Injured riders Certificate then ultimately it is incompetence on his part. On the other hand if there was an examination of Adam Ellis and an Injured riders certificate was completed then its difficult to see where Lakeside can go with this. My guess that Jon Cook would have asked to see an Injured Riders Certificate before lodging his complaint and Adam Ellis must know whether the medic examined him or not.. I doubt that the SCB will alter the result but if the proper procedures were not followed the Clerk of The Course has some serious questions to answer if he is going to keep his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Time this was resolved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 It probably has but I doubt if we mere fans will get to hear anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagrag Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am not sure how Ellis and Lakeside can not say that he was not examined by the medic. He was down a good 5mins on the track and had his helmet, neck brace and kevlars undone so was examined on the track. The medic may not have taken him into the ambulance but had already determined that he had any injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I am not sure how Ellis and Lakeside can not say that he was not examined by the medic. He was down a good 5mins on the track and had his helmet, neck brace and kevlars undone so was examined on the track. The medic may not have taken him into the ambulance but had already determined that he had any injury. The requirement is for an injured rider report form to be completed by the medic and sent immediately to the referee. It is the responsibility of the Clerk of the Course to see that this is done. If a. Contemporaneous Injured Rider Form is produced it seems that Lakeside have nowhere to go on this but if there is no form(which implies the Clerk of the Course didn't know what he was doing) then serious questions have to be asked of the medic, the CoC and the ref . I doubt whether anything will come of it but Injured Rider Forms are there for a reason, not least because it may mean the rider needs another medical before he can ride in his next meeting, and if there was no form (and therefore no evidence of injury) then the CoC needs to be removed from his job, the ref needs to re-sit the refs exam and hopefully nobody in speedway will employ the medic again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just one point. Having sat, and passed, the CoC exam at Rugby, I do not remember any questions whatsoever relating to medical certification. That doesn't obviously exclude a CoC from knowing the Regulations - but it does perhaps highlight shortfalls within the SCB's examination process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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