The Voice Of Reason Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) If Leicester paid off the paramedic then surely they would asked him to withdraw PK, Watt and Bridger. If anyone looks at the Individual Scorecard from last night's meeting, they'll possibly come to the conclusion that they had!!!! Edited April 13, 2014 by The Voice Of Reason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orderly Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 At the end of the day the rider, the riders team manager & the referee are each given the medical officers certificate of withdrawal and the reasons for withdrawal with a time scale of how long the rider should not consider racing, the riders copy must be presented at the next meeting the rider intends to compete in, the certificate should be signed by a Doctor prior to the meeting or be examined by the CMO at the track. I would assume that the CMO issued to the rider before he left the medical room and also gave the team manager a copy at the same time. I know from experience that the rider, and at times, the team manager think that they know better than the CMO and as I have told a good few over the years “I do not tell them how to ride a bike or manage their team. Then please do not tell me how to do my job”. In this scenario I would hazard a guess that the CMO saw something that gave him cause for concern hence the action taken. In my time as a CMO I would sooner take the flack for withdrawing him from a meeting than explaining to a coroner’s court why I didn’t take this action 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Can't wait for the day of reckoning when Lakeside miss out on play off's by 1 point. Can see the appeal being a non starter. Let's face it, Lakeside will get this overturned. Only Poole outrank the Hammers when decisions on dubious appeals are being handed out. Some disagreement among the forum "experts" apparently ! Edited April 13, 2014 by E I Addio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 At the end of the day the rider, the riders team manager & the referee are each given the medical officers certificate of withdrawal and the reasons for withdrawal with a time scale of how long the rider should not consider racing, the riders copy must be presented at the next meeting the rider intends to compete in, the certificate should be signed by a Doctor prior to the meeting or be examined by the CMO at the track. I would assume that the CMO issued to the rider before he left the medical room and also gave the team manager a copy at the same time. I know from experience that the rider, and at times, the team manager think that they know better than the CMO and as I have told a good few over the years “I do not tell them how to ride a bike or manage their team. Then please do not tell me how to do my job”. In this scenario I would hazard a guess that the CMO saw something that gave him cause for concern hence the action taken. In my time as a CMO I would sooner take the flack for withdrawing him from a meeting than explaining to a coroner’s court why I didn’t take this action Seems a perfectly sensible post to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionstigersnotbearsohmy Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 As most of the discussion seems to be about the decisions of two officials, I just wondered if anybody had any comments to make on the racing? Gave this one a miss but a decent win for the Lions. Was it an improvement on previous weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Yes it sounds as if Lakeside would have gained an away point, had those two factors been different. But they wern't, and unfortunately Lakeside will just have to accept that it's happened and if they are going to have an official moan, maybe it should be about the ref? The statement on the Lakeside website says that the complaint is against both the referee and the medical officer. I wasn't there to see it myself but from what I've heard / read, what really added salt to the wound was the fact that another ref might have put all 4 back in anyway (especially considering that it was the reserves race) which would have given us at least that extra point. Or was it not on the 1st bend? Regardless of whether anything comes of the complaint, well done to Leicester for a solid display and to Lawson and Bech who both scored well yet again. It's a shame that Lewis couldn't continue his previous night's form but at least it sounds like he had a bit more speed towards the end of the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Of course it's financial benefit, I was told recently that one EL boss refused to pay any more than last year for costs and his promoter then came up with this wonderful plan to save British Speedway plus he had already signed up Ellis. Of course, you are not prepared to tell us who divulged this "information" or how he came to know about it, or indeed when he supposedly came to know about it are you ?. Could have been the proverbial "bloke in the pub" for all we know according to that post. The old "I was told by someone but can't tell you who because I'm in the know and you are not" kind of approach never carries much weight on the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Nice one bob72.........you've surpassed yourself because they aren't allowed on the trsck till the redlight goes on yoi spoon. ya I know your not very bright but have you ever heard of people using common sense ? Had the track man been paying attention he would of used his common sense and helped the rider and bike safely onto the centre green. The red lights came on very late and could of caused another accident. No one has mentioned the idiots last night using cameras knowing it's dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) I know your not very bright but have you ever heard of people using common sense ? Had the track man been paying attention he would of used his common sense and helped the rider and bike safely onto the centre green. The red lights came on very late and could of caused another accident. No one has mentioned the idiots last night using cameras knowing it's dangerous I'll spell it out on words of 1 syllabal. They are not allowed until the red lights come on Common sense or no common sense. It'against the rules. Hope that's not to difficult for you Edited April 13, 2014 by TMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I know your not very bright but have you ever heard of people using common sense ? Had the track man been paying attention he would of used his common sense and helped the rider and bike safely onto the centre green. The red lights came on very late and could of caused another accident. No one has mentioned the idiots last night using cameras knowing it's dangerous Any club worth their salt makes sure their centre green staff are fully aware of the safety regulations before they let them out on centre green - they even have an additional exclusion zone introduced a few years back. Its because most people realise its a dangerous sport. IF centre green staff were to 'use his common sense' as you see it not only could he be putting others in danger but at very best it would probably be his last appearance - if the club didnt remove him the referee would. I have seen a track man removed from position during a meeting for exactly that - not following the basic safety instructions. Its not about helping riders or otherwise, its about preventing unpreventable injury or - as some of us refer to it - proper common sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'll spell it out on words of 1 syllabal. They are not allowed until the red lights come on Common sense or no common sense. It'against the rules. Hope that's not to difficult for you So your telling me if a rider came off a few feet away from you and the exhaust was burning his leg and he was yelling you would stand still and wait till the ref put on the red lights ? I know for sure I wouldn't wait. I also think some paramedics take an age to get to a fallen rider. I know your knowledge of the sport is limited but rules in speedway are regularly broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Of course, you are not prepared to tell us who divulged this "information" or how he came to know about it, or indeed when he supposedly came to know about it are you ?. Could have been the proverbial "bloke in the pub" for all we know according to that post. The old "I was told by someone but can't tell you who because I'm in the know and you are not" kind of approach never carries much weight on the forum. I think most on this forum know how reliable most of my information is, also a lot know what I used to do and my identity despite my user name, you of course hide behind yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I think most on this forum know how reliable most of my information is, also a lot know what I used to do and my identity despite my user name, you of course hide behind yours.As the kids would say you are ITK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I think most on this forum know how reliable most of my information is, also a lot know what I used to do and my identity despite my user name, you of course hide behind yours. "Most " on the forum ? 15000 or whatever it is members know your information is reliable ? I doubt it. Usually your "information" consists of some little snippet that supposedly goes on behind the scenes that the average forum member has no way of checking or knowing whether its true or false. So you are asking us to believe that you were told by someone that this was a plan to "save British Speedway " (your words ) conceived by Jon Cook or Stuart Douglas (hence the reference to signing Adam Ellis) but you only have this persons word on this and we only have yours. You therefore are prepared to make a snide comment against an identifiable promotion while at the same time protecting the identity of whoever supposedly gave the information to you (assuming you didn't just make it up or possibly put a little bit of spin on it to spice it up a bit.). For someone who comes on here preaching to us all about how much you are a firm believer in fair play and following the rules one would imagine that you could see that acting as gossip or mouthpiece on behalf of someone willing to spread gossip about one party while concealing identity of the person who is source of the alleged information is in itself contrary to fair play especially as you are not able to say from your own first hand knowledge whether the information is true or false. Has it not occurred to you that whoever gave you this information (assuming someone did) might themselves have an axe to grind or chip on their shoulder ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 As the kids would say you are ITK In the know baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice Of Reason Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I think most on this forum know how reliable most of my information is. Okay, oh great font of knowledge, we give up. Where exactly is flight MH370? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 The voice of Reason- PK,Bridger,Lawson,Eliis,Wattand Morley have all rode at Leicester before so only Bech that hasn't and am sure he will be well suited to the track Can I just point out that last night's "Matchday Magazine" stated that as well as Mikkel Bech it was also the track debut for skipper Davey Watt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 So your telling me if a rider came off a few feet away from you and the exhaust was burning his leg and he was yelling you would stand still and wait till the ref put on the red lights ? I know for sure I wouldn't wait. I also think some paramedics take an age to get to a fallen rider. I know your knowledge of the sport is limited but rules in speedway are regularly broken. I'm not quite sure what to say to that. Have you been at the Jamaican woodbine's? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orderly Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I was stunned when the lad went to the start & the red lights went on,that was bad refereeing and lakeside are right to complain. Not sure how a paramedic can stop you racing,they can only advice you,was a doctor not there yesterday ? Thought the track was shocking again,no grip. Pleased the lions got there first win How can you be stunned that was not bad refereeing in fact it was good refereeing because the CMO had advised the referee that Ellis had been withdrawn by a fully qualified Paramedic who is registered with the Health Professions Council and has gone through a lot of training before, during & after his/her Paramedic qualifications. If a paramedic is in charge of the medical side of a meeting then the paramedic assumes the roll of the Chief Medical Officer, if a Doctor is also contracted to attend the meeting then that Doctor must be B A S I C S (British Association for Immediate Care) trained and not just a GP from the surgery down the road You forgot the bit where the home promoter handsover a brown envelope containing 30 pieces of silver in exchange for the certificate That is a comment that could attract litigation both from the promoter and the paramedic concerned and not the sort of comment needed on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) How can you be stunned that was not bad refereeing in fact it was good refereeing because the CMO had advised the referee that Ellis had been withdrawn by a fully qualified Paramedic who is registered with the Health Professions Council and has gone through a lot of training before, during & after his/her Paramedic qualifications. If a paramedic is in charge of the medical side of a meeting then the paramedic assumes the roll of the Chief Medical Officer, if a Doctor is also contracted to attend the meeting then that Doctor must be B A S I C S (British Association for Immediate Care) trained and not just a GP from the surgery down the road That is a comment that could attract litigation both from the promoter and the paramedic concerned and not the sort of comment needed on this forum It was sarcasticundertone toward the Lakeside fans who on this thread had implied that the paramedic was biased towards Leicester. In other words payed.....clearly not a very good one Edited April 14, 2014 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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