Scunthorpe V Cradley (national League) 13th April 2014

[hulvik]

the proof of whether Rob and Matt are doing is right will come at the end of the season when other promotors steal half their team as as in the past at Scunthorpe (Coventry and Cradley Heath to name 2)

[greyhoundp]

I just ask one question, my final one on the subject. Why doesnt Mr Godfrey run the NL meetings as single meetings, rather than as double headers ?. I believe the answer is because not many will come to watch them at the present time. Yet other people on here expect supporters of other NL Teams to pay hard earned cash, to watch the self same team that the majority of Scunthorpe supporters dont want to watch.

I say this with no disrespect to any riders or supporters on here, its for the NL to sort out, by bridging the gap that seems to have emerged this year between certain teams, it can be done, and has to be done for the future of the NL.

[scunny1]

 

I just ask one question, my final one on the subject. Why doesnt Mr Godfrey run the NL meetings as single meetings, rather than as double headers ?. I believe the answer is because not many will come to watch them at the present time. Yet other people on here expect supporters of other NL Teams to pay hard earned cash, to watch the self same team that the majority of Scunthorpe supporters dont want to watch.

I say this with no disrespect to any riders or supporters on here, its for the NL to sort out, by bridging the gap that seems to have emerged this year between certain teams, it can be done, and has to be done for the future of the NL.

Scunthorpe is a working town who's major employer has shed hundreds of jobs recently. Add in all the contracting firms who have also lost out locally because of the Steel Industry downturn and it is clear to see money is tight in the town.

Do you really expect the paying fans to pay out for Premier League meeting home and away and National League meetings home and away. The lucky few might be able to afford, but in reality most cannot. Premier League is not much of a lesser standard than Elite, however the gulf betwen Premier and National League is in my opinion huge. I will pay to watch Premier league because it is a better product and I have that choice. If I only had a National League side to watch locally then I would support them. You pays your money and takes your choice, double headers Prem and National league for us are good value.

[Ommer Mon]

On the Kings Lynn question, I think that Josh Bailey is well worth supporting this year. He showed promise in the second leg of the play off final last year and really got stuck in at Monmore Wood last week. Cockle, Hughes and Mallett all have a role to play in developing a young talent like that both on the track as well as in the pits.

 

That is the point that I am trying to make about Scunny. It was great that Sam Chapman rode so well yesterday but what did the other six learn and what did they feel like as they left the stadium. God forbid that any of them give up at this stage but if you have no role models to look to (on the track) how are they going to develop.

 

I'll be interested to see how many Scunny fans make the trip to Momnore. As Halifaxtiger said the promotion seem to have passed the financial risk of all of this to the other promoters.

 

To the Scunny lads I would say keep plugging away. The sport needs good British youngsters coming through but I feel it also owes them an obligation to try to provide the right support for that development.

[semion]

so stoke mildenhall ,cradley all move up because they all believe its about winning ,where does that leave the national league? 5 teams left =no national league. You can knock cradley all you like but the national league will be a much poorer place without them. I just dont get this fixation with young riders . I want to see good speedway at all levels and quite frankly i dont care if a rider is 15 or 50 as long as its entertaining cause thats what im paying admission for

So Scunny, Lynn and maybe Buxton decide they are not prepared to finance a team at this development level, so you are still left with 5 teams. I thought the idea of a points limit as to at least start with an even playing field. As in most walks of life Money talks and the bigger clubs can cheery pick the riders they want. I think I read in this weeks Star that Scunny and Lynn are paying a tenner a point, so thats the level playing field out of the window straight away.

 

Cradley ( Dudley) had a great team last season, How many of those riders are elft from last term ? Yet most expect them to knock 7 bells out of most teams again this season. The question I am asking is, is this really good for Speedway ? Maybe Cradley/Dudley fans like to watch that kind of Speedway, I saw it at Lynn a few years back in The Premier League, and it became a bore fest.

[hulvik]

Double headers are nothing new at Scunthorpe and not just something that have been introduced for this season. Yes there is an increase in ther admission price but £2 for an extra 15 heats of racing as to be good value in anybodies book. As for the support I have been at double headers in the past and seen the ground empty as soon as the Premier league meeting as finished. Yet this season despite the results of the Stags more people do seem to be staying behind to watch the lads and seem to be getting behind them. Yes all but one of the team have stated the season with an assest avarge of 3 but these are lads who have raced in amature meetings and are not that far of the pace of the seasoned riders they are up against. Lets also not forget Scunthorpe as given chances in the past to less experianced riders only for other clubs to steal them once they have proved themselves. It looks to me than those promotors who are complaining would do well to give such youngsters a chance in their teams as opposed to waiting it they have gained some expriance and then poaching them

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

So Scunny, Lynn and maybe Buxton decide they are not prepared to finance a team at this development level, so you are still left with 5 teams. I thought the idea of a points limit as to at least start with an even playing field. As in most walks of life Money talks and the bigger clubs can cheery pick the riders they want. I think I read in this weeks Star that Scunny and Lynn are paying a tenner a point, so thats the level playing field out of the window straight away..

i agree i wish cradley and others would pay less so as buxton lynn and scunny would be on level playing field but that aside everything cradley do the do right .living where i do you just cant ignore them ,they are everywhere, even more than wolves. I would say that the point of mildenhall,s season is to beat and be better than cradley and so it should be .thats what there fans want and expect for their money and thats what makes speedway exciting and surely thats the point

[jim the whipper]

The entire conundrum very well summed up !

 

The two sides in this argument are at loggerheads but they should be able to see that they are mutually dependent. The stand alones have to have opposition to fill out a season and the second teams need to test themselves against a mixture of opposition.

 

When Scunthorpe made their late bid to enter the NL this year I would presume that their intentions on team building would have been discussed with the other clubs at the NL AGM. If it was going to be a problem then the other clubs should not have accepted their entry.

When Scunthorpe made their late bid into the Nl this year , Most other NL teams will have assumed that having been a standalone NL club as well as a multi level club , that Scunthorpe would have known what level of teambuilding would be expected and tried to field a competitive team and also welcomed the extra competition /fixtures as a boost to the National league and all the clubs in it , If they were made aware of the intention to run a team of raw novices , I doubt Scunthorpe would have received the open arms welcome and votes from the other clubs that they did , It's all very well messrs Godfrey and Ford feathering their nest for the future , but it's hardly fair that it should be done at the expense of the other national league clubs and their supporters , I can easily imagine the attitude of Godfrey if another team had brought a training school standard team to try and attract the paying public when Scunthorpe were standalone NL , Now that the boot is on the other it's a different story . supporters of this policy complaining about riders such as James Cockle being professional NL riders and wanting the points limit dropped to level the playing field to amateur level are simply taking a selfish view , First off , in the last few years the national league itself has become more professional and if riders are happy to compete at the top level of that league while maintaining a income from working as well good for them , secondly Dudley, Mildenahall , Stoke and Buxton Supporters dont see the national league as some sort of benevolent training scheme , NL is the level that their clubs can afford to race at and they support their teams in the same way as any supporter of premier and Elite league speedway , they pay their money to see competitive meetings and want to see their teams succeed in whatever competions they enter . If scunthorpe are so keen to give novices their chance in a team , then organise some full meetings against riders of their level, from the southern track and the dragons

[semion]

i agree i wish cradley and others would pay less so as buxton lynn and scunny would be on level playing field but that aside everything cradley do the do right .living where i do you just cant ignore them ,they are everywhere, even more than wolves. I would say that the point of mildenhall,s season is to beat and be better than cradley and so it should be .thats what there fans want and expect for their money and thats what makes speedway exciting and surely thats the point

Dean, so thats 4 meetings ( maybe 6) in a season. So the other 7 teams are fighting for the crumbs off the big boys table. Wouldnt it great if Cradleys top meeting were v Stoke, and Mildenhalls was v Lynn. Not just a battle for who is paying out the most to capture the trophys in the 3rd tier of British Speedway.

 

I saw that some of lads Scunthorpe have signed are travelling big big distances just a for a team place. All credit to these lads and their parents, but is it rather sad that a lad from Kent cant be found a team place in Kent etc.

[hulvik]

Anybody who saw last nights match (14/4/2014) between Poole and Coventry will have seen what standard of riders are in the national league with Kyle Newman a product of the draft system scoring well. But there was a telling comment in his tv interview from the reporter saying Kyle had invested heavily in his equipment. This was the differance between Kyle and the other Draft selections on show who all struggled. I believe this is also the main problem with the Stags. Anybody who as seen therm race knows the lads have the talent just not the speed and unfortantly in any form of motor sport speed costs money. With most of the team only riding at amature level before funding will have been limited. But it's the chicken and egg problem to get better funding you need a place in a team and you only get a place in a team if your good.

Give the lads a chance I say and if other promotors don't like this way of bringing new blood into the sport at the professional level I suggest they get thier hands in thier pockets and organise some training systems of their own

[jim the whipper]

Anybody who saw last nights match (14/4/2014) between Poole and Coventry will have seen what standard of riders are in the national league with Kyle Newman a product of the draft system scoring well. But there was a telling comment in his tv interview from the reporter saying Kyle had invested heavily in his equipment. This was the differance between Kyle and the other Draft selections on show who all struggled. I believe this is also the main problem with the Stags. Anybody who as seen therm race knows the lads have the talent just not the speed and unfortantly in any form of motor sport speed costs money. With most of the team only riding at amature level before funding will have been limited. But it's the chicken and egg problem to get better funding you need a place in a team and you only get a place in a team if your good.

Give the lads a chance I say and if other promotors don't like this way of bringing new blood into the sport at the professional level I suggest they get thier hands in thier pockets and organise some training systems of their own

I have no doubt that the Stags riders have not spent huge amounts on equipment , but to claim that Kyle Newman is the only draught rider to have invested heavily in his equipment (based entirely on what you heard on a tv interview ) not only demonstrates how little you actually know about speedway but is also insulting to the rest of the draught riders their parents and most natiional league riders , who have spent just as much on equipment , Kyle Newmans main advantage is his experience of riding at higher level ,2 seasons of premier league with somerset and half a season of Elite with Poole are his advantage . as for the promoters putting their hands in their pockets to provide a training Scheme, they already are , by making up the losses when Scunthorpe are the opposition .

Edited April 15, 2014 by jim the whipper

[scribbler]

I have no doubt that the Stags riders have not spent huge amounts on equipment , but to claim that Kyle Newman is the only draught rider to have invested heavily in his equipment (based entirely on what you heard on a tv interview ) not only demonstrates how little you actually know about speedway but is also insulting to the rest of the draught riders their parents and most natiional league riders , who have spent just as much on equipment , Kyle Newmans main advantage is his experience of riding at higher level ,2 seasons of premier league with somerset and half a season of Elite with Poole are his advantage .

 

IIRC Kyle has good sponsorship because he is riding for Poole. Sponsorship is the key to good equipment - but how often can riders get good sponsorship deals...

[montie]

, by making up the losses when Scunthorpe are the opposition .

So what about the thumping Lynn got -----you seem to forget that one

[Bagpuss]

Newman will excel as a draft rider as he is vastly experienced compared to many of them......its probably only because he still has a modest PL average that he is in the draft at all.

[montie]

I just ask one question, my final one on the subject. Why doesnt Mr Godfrey run the NL meetings as single meetings, rather than as double headers ?. I believe the answer is because not many will come to watch them at the present time. Yet other people on here expect supporters of other NL Teams to pay hard earned cash, to watch the self same team that the majority of Scunthorpe supporters dont want to watch.

I say this with no disrespect to any riders or supporters on here, its for the NL to sort out, by bridging the gap that seems to have emerged this year between certain teams, it can be done, and has to be done for the future of the NL.

Has it ever occured to you that we also maybe short on dates,Full PL season,12 stock car meet,7 Amateur meets,various tracks days etc

 

when could we actually run stand alone meetings? Running two meets in a week in financial suicide---Double headers work so that why it is

When Scunthorpe made their late bid into the Nl this year , Most other NL teams will have assumed that having been a standalone NL club as well as a multi level club , that Scunthorpe would have known what level of teambuilding would be expected and tried to field a competitive team and also welcomed the extra competition /fixtures as a boost to the National league and all the clubs in it , If they were made aware of the intention to run a team of raw novices , I doubt Scunthorpe would have received the open arms welcome and votes from the other clubs that they did , It's all very well messrs Godfrey and Ford feathering their nest for the future , but it's ns

What makes you think the Stags were given a open arms welcome???

[pete cc]

 

tell me....next year...where will you get your heat leaders from????

Scunthorpe !!

[Hunty]

First off , in the last few years the national league itself has become more professional and if riders are happy to compete at the top level of that league while maintaining a income from working as well good for them , secondly Dudley, Mildenahall , Stoke and Buxton Supporters dont see the national league as some sort of benevolent training scheme , NL is the level that their clubs can afford to race at and they support their teams in the same way as any supporter of premier and Elite league speedway , they pay their money to see competitive meetings and want to see their teams succeed in whatever competions they enter . If scunthorpe are so keen to give novices their chance in a team , then organise some full meetings against riders of their level, from the southern track and the dragons

 

Im a firm beliver in the National League is a development league, it has to have a competative edge to it otherwide you may aswell just have open meetings and practise nights.

 

The points limit needs to be addressed first and formost, from 40 to around 37.5. The two reserves should be 3.00 and the rest of the team has to be over 34 points. There should be a top end and a lower end limit as then you will have that level playing field that so many on this thread seem to be craving. If you build a team of 3.00's then what to people expect to happen when a full pointed side turns up, I understand what Scunthrope are trying to do but it actually hinders the league as for clubs like Cradley Mildenhall have to pay top points money on night when you will gaurentee a lower attendance.

 

As for which Cradley are already planning somthing extra to keep the crowd up when Scunthorpe come to Monmore, not sure what it but this is why Cradley are sucsessful because they understand that its important to be well drilled on and off the track...A to be honest we get a bit to big for our boots in the National League as we seem to have a way with getting what we want and thats something that bothers me a little as the example of us being down to race good friday but we wouldnt have had a full strength team and swapped with Mildenhall who miss three heat leaders!

 

No doubting even with a reduced points limit Cradley would still be very strong, and this is down to it being a sucsessful well run and supported club. Sponsership is key to any speedway rider and you are going to get those deals of you a riding for a club that is going to be seen and mentioned alot more than others. That is part and parcel to Cradleys sucsess, and if you look at tonights British under 21 final there are a third of the riders who have worn a Dudley or Cradley bib. We have developed riders, not to the extent of Scunthorpe who find these kids at grass roots but without the stand alone teams in the NL I dont think there would be one and certainly enough riders to form the fast track draft.

[jim the whipper]

So what about the thumping Lynn got -----you seem to forget that one

No what I did was to actually post a comment on the subject in hand instead of cherry picking an odd ocacasion and trying to score points , having to second guess every patheitic loophole someone will find in every post makes posting on the BSF hard work rather than an amusing pastime , and getting embroiled in sidetrack arguments with cretins is no lopnger my bag I' m afraid . so I'll just say , Kings Lynn did not turn up with a training school team , and no one would have been put off attending because they were the opposition . so your weak point is completlely irrelevant and wasted here .

[Baldy]

 

Im a firm beliver in the National League is a development league, it has to have a competative edge to it otherwide you may aswell just have open meetings and practise nights.

 

The points limit needs to be addressed first and formost, from 40 to around 37.5. The two reserves should be 3.00 and the rest of the team has to be over 34 points. There should be a top end and a lower end limit as then you will have that level playing field that so many on this thread seem to be craving. If you build a team of 3.00's then what to people expect to happen when a full pointed side turns up, I understand what Scunthrope are trying to do but it actually hinders the league as for clubs like Cradley Mildenhall have to pay top points money on night when you will gaurentee a lower attendance.

 

As for which Cradley are already planning somthing extra to keep the crowd up when Scunthorpe come to Monmore, not sure what it but this is why Cradley are sucsessful because they understand that its important to be well drilled on and off the track...A to be honest we get a bit to big for our boots in the National League as we seem to have a way with getting what we want and thats something that bothers me a little as the example of us being down to race good friday but we wouldnt have had a full strength team and swapped with Mildenhall who miss three heat leaders!

 

No doubting even with a reduced points limit Cradley would still be very strong, and this is down to it being a sucsessful well run and supported club. Sponsership is key to any speedway rider and you are going to get those deals of you a riding for a club that is going to be seen and mentioned alot more than others. That is part and parcel to Cradleys sucsess, and if you look at tonights British under 21 final there are a third of the riders who have worn a Dudley or Cradley bib. We have developed riders, not to the extent of Scunthorpe who find these kids at grass roots but without the stand alone teams in the NL I dont think there would be one and certainly enough riders to form the fast track draft.

A lot of sense spoken there but the league has to decide what it wants to be. The main reason I have stopped watching league speedway is that they are all full of a miss mash of riding abilities regardless of the team the riders ride for. The individual averages of quite a few riders are false to their riding ability; in golfing terms there are riders playing off 20 handicaps that are really single figure players. It's an old chestnut but why can't leagues be filled with riders of the same or similar ability from one to seven and as they get better move up through the leagues. This draft has in some eyes been a success but to me there are a few riders who are really struggling to live up to the Elite league badge. All the best for the season.

[hulvik]

May I suggest some people read the artical in the speedway star on this subject. I'd also like to remind people one of the reasons that scunthorpe didn't run a team in the national league last year was having built a team in the 2012 season that was capable of challenging for the title majority of the team were then poached by teams who are now complaining. all I can say comes around goes around