April 26: European Fim Speedway Grand Prix (bydgoszcz, Poland)

[Humphrey Appleby]

BSI actually pay millions to the FIM for the World Championship.

They don't pay 'millions'. They pay around 1.5 million per year to the FIM, which the prize money comes out of.

 

If FIM Europe can afford to only charge 1.5K for inscription fees, then you have to question why the FIM needs to charge 20K. Although FIM Europe may well be getting some sort of contribution from the FIM towards their running costs.

[Ghostwalker]

SURELY a European Championship should always play second fiddle (junior event) to a World Championship?

 

ONE word answer: WRONG!

 

Believe what you like if it makes you feel better but the strings lay in the domain of the FIM and it is they who have doing the pulling. Incidentally, what makes you think that you speak for "most of us" or are you just limiting that to those who are anti-BSI on here?

 

So you say that Armando Castagna is lying?

 

 

 

 

There must be another forum somewhere where you can inflict your idiotic and immature opinions on.

 

 

Well Liam G have a valid point there, Philip R never ever seems to write anything negative about BSI

and always seems to take BSI's side even when the BSI is to blame (like Cardiff last year).

 

His posts sometimes looks more like a BSI press release then posts from an independent speedway writer.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Ghostwalker

[Humphrey Appleby]

WHICH is exactly what the FIM hierarchy as opposed to their FIM Europe cousins wanted...

How could you have European Championships being qualifiers for the *World* Championship? How would the Australians, Americans, Argentinians etc.. qualify?

 

OR you could hope that Polish speedway goes bust and all the riders flock back to Britain. Neither is a good idea and nether will happen...

The best option would be for the speedway as a whole to take back control of its premier competitions and run them for its own benefit. If that means a breakaway from the FIM then so be it, although I'd prefer an F1 constructors' style coup.

 

It would also be good to see some independent and critical journalistic opinion for a change, rather than the thinly disguised SGP and SEC party political spin.

[iris123]

BSI actually pay millions to the FIM for the World Championship. What do OneSport pay for the SEC rights? But that is a separate issue. Their concern is the difference in inscription fees (20,000 as against 1,500) for example.

But they are the deals agreed at the time.When the deal was done for the SEC the FIM would have been happy to get almost anything for the competition.The fact that it has been boosted beyond most peoples imagination shozuldn't be held against One Sport.Or do you and BSI think because it has been turned into a bit of a success the FIM should turn around and say "Ok you have done a good job now we want to go back on the deal and get 10 times the money agreed"? It all comes down to the fact an outside party has come into speedway,taken a low key competition and turned it around.BSI were happy to do their deal and the FIM were probably laughing all the way to the bank when One Sport wanted the SEC......

 

What is very worrying is that BSI seem to have milked the market and we are now at the stage when our major competition is being held in one of the major countries before a crowd below that of a lot of league meetings and like i said before a 1,000 people less than a relatively low key open meeting in germany the week before!!!!Blaming Basketball or the Pope isn't going to help much.Just as almost every time i see a rider comment about a poor performance he never blames himself it is almost always his set up or mechanical problems........

[PHILIPRISING]

They don't pay 'millions'. They pay around 1.5 million per year to the FIM, which the prize money comes out of.

 

If FIM Europe can afford to only charge 1.5K for inscription fees, then you have to question why the FIM needs to charge 20K. Although FIM Europe may well be getting some sort of contribution from the FIM towards their running costs.

OF course they pay millions... it's not a one year deal. But that's just semantics. The fact is BSI pay considerably more than OneSport and, within reason, so should they for a World as opposed European Championship.

 

However, the inscription fees which are supposedly to cover FIM costs should surely be the same or at least similar?

[iris123]

OF course they pay millions... it's not a one year deal. But that's just semantics. The fact is BSI pay considerably more than OneSport and, within reason, so should they for a World as opposed European Championship.

 

However, the inscription fees which are supposedly to cover FIM costs should surely be the same or at least similar?

You yourself have stated that BSI ask what they think the market can afford.There is no set price for all countries.They don't ask the same money from Italy that they do from Sweden and Poland,so why do they expect different from the FIM?

Edited April 28, 2014 by iris123

[PHILIPRISING]

But they are the deals agreed at the time.When the deal was done for the SEC the FIM would have been happy to get almost anything for the competition.The fact that it has been boosted beyond most peoples imagination shozuldn't be held against One Sport.Or do you and BSI think because it has been turned into a bit of a success the FIM should turn around and say "Ok you have done a good job now we want to go back on the deal and get 10 times the money agreed"? It all comes down to the fact an outside party has come into speedway,taken a low key competition and turned it around.BSI were happy to do their deal and the FIM were probably laughing all the way to the bank when One Sport wanted the SEC......

 

What is very worrying is that BSI seem to have milked the market and we are now at the stage when our major competition is being held in one of the major countries before a crowd below that of a lot of league meetings and like i said before a 1,000 people less than a relatively low key open meeting in germany the week before!!!!Blaming Basketball or the Pope isn't going to help much.Just as almost every time i see a rider comment about a poor performance he never blames himself it is almost always his set up or mechanical problems........

YOU are still missing the point. It was the FIM itself who were unhappy with the contract agreed between OneSport and FIM Europe. It was the FIM who wanted to stop riders competing in both. It is the FIM who wanted the Euros to be qualifiers for the World Championship.

[iris123]

YOU are still missing the point. It was the FIM itself who were unhappy with the contract agreed between OneSport and FIM Europe. It was the FIM who wanted to stop riders competing in both. It is the FIM who wanted the Euros to be qualifiers for the World Championship.

But nothing much was said at the time the deal was made and nothing was done at the time.Just after the SEC took off and got on Eurosport and looked like a bit of a challenge to the SGP.....only then was a fuss made.And why?It does seem that Armando has confirmed some peoples suspicions that it was because of BSI

 

 

Now i am not one of those that want to see BSI or the SGP suffer as like i said on one of the previous threads it is in the end speedway that suffers.

[f-s-p]

How could you have European Championships being qualifiers for the *World* Championship? How would the Australians, Americans, Argentinians etc.. qualify?

It would be the european part of the qualifying system, not THE qualifying system.

[PHILIPRISING]

How could you have European Championships being qualifiers for the *World* Championship? How would the Australians, Americans, Argentinians etc.. qualify?

 

 

The best option would be for the speedway as a whole to take back control of its premier competitions and run them for its own benefit. If that means a breakaway from the FIM then so be it, although I'd prefer an F1 constructors' style coup.

 

It would also be good to see some independent and critical journalistic opinion for a change, rather than the thinly disguised SGP and SEC party political spin.

I WOULDN'T disagree with your first point about qualifiers but that is what the FIM had (and still do) in mind.

 

Who is 'speedway as a whole'? Love or loathe BSI even you should at least acknowledge the huge year long operation they mount to run these events. They don't just turn up on Friday afternoon and expect everything to work like clockwork.

 

As to your last sentence... just another dig at me? I come on here not as a journalist but as poster just like you to voice my own opinions.

[Humphrey Appleby]

When the deal was done for the SEC the FIM would have been happy to get almost anything for the competition.The fact that it has been boosted beyond most peoples imagination shozuldn't be held against One Sport.

The problem is that the situation should never have arisen where two competitions ostensibly administered by the same organisation essentially end-up in competition for riders, venues and revenue with each other. Perhaps the FIM or FIM Europe didn't initially have any great expectations from selling off SEC, but I can well understand why BSI are miffed after shelling out for presumably what they thought were exclusive rights to a GP series.

 

If there's unhappiness over prize money, staging fees or how the SGP is promoted, that should be addressed with the SGP organisers or replacement promoters found. That said, the FIM are stuck with something like a 20-year deal, which was surely ridiculous for such a low-key sport that rents rather than builds stadia.

 

Commercial competition is generally good in most industries, but not in sport. All it does is bankrupt the protagonists because there always needs to be a clearly established hierarchy of competition (although boxing is maybe an exception).

 

What is very worrying is that BSI seem to have milked the market and we are now at the stage when our major competition is being held in one of the major countries before a crowd below that of a lot of league meetings

I've been pointing out for a long time that crowds beyond a handful of prestige meetings and Poland were actually never very good, and clearly it's proved difficult to sustain GPs at the smaller venues for very long. There are those with far closer connections to the SGP then myself who've consistently pointed out over many years that BSI's promotional abilities are over-rated, but speedway is generally so poorly promoted that it's not as obvious as it might be.

 

I'm maybe more circumspect these days about the realities of what can be achieved with speedway, and it may just simply be that it's just its reached limits. However, questioning where all the money has been going and how speedway benefits is a different matter, and one that Poles are starting to ask.

[iris123]

 

 

Who is 'speedway as a whole'? Love or loathe BSI even you should at least acknowledge the huge year long operation they mount to run these events. They don't just turn up on Friday afternoon and expect everything to work like clockwork.

 

 

I certainly do acknowledge the fact.Just like i do acknowledge the fact that they did bring the series on to a new level.But even one of the major sponsors has stated here that he thinks the whole thing went a bit stale a few years back and it is a fact that we are now at the point where the latest GP was held in one of, if not the major speedway country before a paltry crowd.The ticket sales were poor before the weather was known.

 

Houston,we have a problem!!!!

Edited April 28, 2014 by iris123

[PHILIPRISING]

But nothing much was said at the time the deal was made and nothing was done at the time.Just after the SEC took off and got on Eurosport and looked like a bit of a challenge to the SGP.....only then was a fuss made.And why?It does seem that Armando has confirmed some peoples suspicions that it was because of BSI

 

 

Now i am not one of those that want to see BSI or the SGP suffer as like i said on one of the previous threads it is in the end speedway that suffers.

CARE to provide me with Armando's exact words? Believe me or believe me not but I spoke to Armando on several occasions last year and he and the FIM did not want riders competing in both competitions. He used to text me after numerous meetings between the various parties saying "still no white smoke." In other words, still no resolution.

When have BSI actually said anything about the dispute? They insisted all along that it was for the FIM to resolve and they should keep out of it, other than trying to get their inscription fees in line with those of the SEC. BSI/IMG's lawyers (and they have plenty) also agreed that the FIM would be on very precarious ground if they went ahead with the ban.

Evebntually the FIM backed down and will doubtless do so again. When OneSport come to negotiate a new deal for 2016 onwards it might be a different story. Time will tell.

[severnsider]

The article with Armando said BSI were unhappy with situation but didn't say anything about BSI wanting a ban on riders so for it to be said that they did & using article makes no sense.

It did say that they didn't want situation as in boxing where there are a number of championships

[Humphrey Appleby]

OF course they pay millions... it's not a one year deal.

Yes, over the 18-year period of the agreement, but these payments are linked to revenues.

 

However, the inscription fees which are supposedly to cover FIM costs should surely be the same or at least similar?

Without knowing the financial structure of the FIM, it's impossible to comment. There might be more officials needed at GPs, there could be cross-subsidisation of the costs of less prestigious meetings, and the running costs of the FIM may be higher in Geneva than those of FIM Europe in Italy.

 

Whatever the reasons, it's a matter between BSI and the FIM.

It would be the european part of the qualifying system, not THE qualifying system.

How many riders would be coming from the non-European part of the qualifying system, and more to the point, how many wouldn't be based in Europe anyway? Would it be economical to run non-European qualifying rounds, as even in the heyday of the sport they were few and far between?

[iris123]

The article with Armando said BSI were unhappy with situation but didn't say anything about BSI wanting a ban on riders so for it to be said that they did & using article makes no sense.

 

But if Bellamy states he thinks the SEC should be a junior event what conclusions are to be made from that?What he isn't saying is riders should be banned.What he is saying is some riders shouldn't be allowed to enter.Same thing in the end,just he is trying to be cleverer than the FIM

[PHILIPRISING]

The problem is that the situation should never have arisen where two competitions ostensibly administered by the same organisation essentially end-up in competition for riders, venues and revenue with each other. Perhaps the FIM or FIM Europe didn't initially have any great expectations from selling off SEC, but I can well understand why BSI are miffed after shelling out for presumably what they thought were exclusive rights to a GP series.

 

If there's unhappiness over prize money, staging fees or how the SGP is promoted, that should be addressed with the SGP organisers or replacement promoters found. That said, the FIM are stuck with something like a 20-year deal, which was surely ridiculous for such a low-key sport that rents rather than builds stadia.

 

Commercial competition is generally good in most industries, but not in sport. All it does is bankrupt the protagonists because there always needs to be a clearly established hierarchy of competition (although boxing is maybe an exception).

 

 

I've been pointing out for a long time that crowds beyond a handful of prestige meetings and Poland were actually never very good, and clearly it's proved difficult to sustain GPs at the smaller venues for very long. There are those with far closer connections to the SGP then myself who've consistently pointed out over many years that BSI's promotional abilities are over-rated, but speedway is generally so poorly promoted that it's not as obvious as it might be.

 

I'm maybe more circumspect these days about the realities of what can be achieved with speedway, and it may just simply be that it's just its reached limits. However, questioning where all the money has been going and how speedway benefits is a different matter, and one that Poles are starting to ask.

ACTUALLY agree with a lot of that. And I do fear that riders like Tomasz Gollob and Greg Hancock will never actually be replaced. Just as Sweden has never replaced Tony Rickardsson. They were one-offs for different reasons and while the first two SGP rounds this year have been excellent in racing terms, on an individual basis one can hardly put the likes of Jonsson, Lindgren, Harris, Batchelor and Bjerre in the same category. They don't set the pulses pounding.

 

For either or both the SGP and the SEC to survive and prosper the sport desperately needs new blood from right across the speedway spectrum.

 

However, I do find it odd that some on here lay all the blame for Saturday's poor attendance at the door of BSI. What did they do wrong? Bydgoszcz would be a popular choice of venue for most people and the track produced some fantastic racing. To suggest that a number of factors didn't have any affect is disingenuous.

 

Apparently there is a big story in one of the local Bydgoszcz papers quoting the Mayor (who didn't even attend until the last minute) as saying he is going to launch an investigation into why the figure was so low. Maybe he should look on his own doorstep first...

But if Bellamy states he thinks the SEC should be a junior event what conclusions are to be made from that?What he isn't saying is riders should be banned.What he is saying is some riders shouldn't be allowed to enter.Same thing in the end,just he is trying to be cleverer than the FIM

ON what basis are you quoting Paul Bellamy? He has said no such thing... point me in the direction of where he has ever said that riders shouldn't be allowed to compete in both the SGP and the SEC.

Edited April 28, 2014 by PHILIPRISING

[Trees]

Economical with the truth ...

[PHILIPRISING]

Economical with the truth ...

WHO?

[pandorum]

Edited April 28, 2014 by pandorum