Triple.H. Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 why should he get a ban?? Surely in a free country he can make that choice. Not saying he should get a ban but he's been seeded through to the final so is possibly in breach of some ruling by refusing to ride.How for instance do the ACU look upon refusal to ride in a British championship which at the end of the day comes under their jurisdiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Really ? Can you point out where I said that ? If you can't show us all where I said that (and I know you can't because I never said it ) then once again we can all see that dear old Iris, when short of facts resorts to making them up No i made a mistake it wasn't you it was SCB that stated it.Doesn't change the fact that if he is right then the law states you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc. As for the rest,well i pulled you up about a comment you atributed to me.Unlike myself or like i said before credit to BWitcher he also admitted he was wrong,you never came up with the evidence or an apology.Say's all i need to know about you as i guess neither the evidence or a retraction/apology will be forthcoming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 No i made a mistake it wasn't you it was SCB that stated it.Doesn't change the fact that if he is right then the law states you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc. No, he didn't say that. Have another go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 No, he didn't say that. Have another go. Go find me the evidence or give an apology and then you can make demands.Until that time you will be labelled a "liar" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 No i made a mistake it wasn't you it was SCB that stated it.Doesn't change the fact that if he is right then the law states you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc. As for the rest,well i pulled you up about a comment you atributed to me.Unlike myself or like i said before credit to BWitcher he also admitted he was wrong,you never came up with the evidence or an apology.Say's all i need to know about you as i guess neither the evidence or a retraction/apology will be forthcoming It's staggering how you resort to arguing over points that actually go totally against what you are arguing for. Case 1: You have a pop at me for bringing up Australia as having the same restrictions as the UK.. when in actual fact they are more severe. Case 2: You are having a pop about the law in the UK stating you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc motorbike. Both of these things go totally against your argument that a 14 year old should be allowed to race competitively on a 500 cc machine. You wouldn't be much use in a debate, here's a tip, you need to look for things to support your argument ... not fight for those that destroy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 It's staggering how you resort to arguing over points that actually go totally against what you are arguing for. Case 1: You have a pop at me for bringing up Australia as having the same restrictions as the UK.. when in actual fact they are more severe. Case 2: You are having a pop about the law in the UK stating you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc motorbike. Both of these things go totally against your argument that a 14 year old should be allowed to race competitively on a 500 cc machine. You wouldn't be much use in a debate, here's a tip, you need to look for things to support your argument ... not fight for those that destroy it! My point on which i have subsequently had a few decent contributions from the likes of "Vince" was i am more of the opinion that ability rather than age should be the vital factor.So Germany,GB and Australia all have differeing age restrictions and as was pointed out even the speedway age limit doesn't coincide with the limit set by law,whether that be 18,19,20 or 21 doesn't matter.It isn't the same as on a speedway track But as i concede to Vinces point,how other older riders react to youngsters is also an important factor.But that is the case whether they be 14,15,16 etc or as i pointed out female.Like i pointed out i did actually see Lambert ride against older guys without problem. So again you come out and shoot yourself in the foot.Must have quite a few holes in them by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Go find me the evidence or give an apology and then you can make demands.Until that time you will be labelled a "liar" I am simply highlighting your inability to read and/or digest facts. First you accuse me of saying you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc machine, then you say it wasn't me it was SCB, but he didn't say anything about a 500cc machine. You are the one specifically mentioning a 500cc machine but now, it seems you can't tell us where he said it. Take a long look at Bwitchers previous post and take a long look at some of the things you have posted. if you want to post some accurate information we can move forward but when you shoot from the hip with inaccurate comments, not to mention comments that undermine the points you are attempting to make, as Bwitcher says, we can't take the discussion any further on a sensible level. I think everyone can see whats going on except you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 I am simply highlighting your inability to read and/or digest facts. First you accuse me of saying you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc machine, then you say it wasn't me it was SCB, but he didn't say anything about a 500cc machine. You are the one specifically mentioning a 500cc machine but now, it seems you can't tell us where he said it. Take a long look at Bwitchers previous post and take a long look at some of the things you have posted. if you want to post some accurate information we can move forward but when you shoot from the hip with inaccurate comments, not to mention comments that undermine the points you are attempting to make, as Bwitcher says, we can't take the discussion any further on a sensible level. I think everyone can see whats going on except you. Do give up.He mentioned 398cc and 598cc or something around there.In between those two comes 498cc or 500cc.Is that any easier for you.Shall i give you a shovel as i am sure yours is well used by now As for any further debate with you.....i refer you to the previous post.Put up or shut up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Do give up.He mentioned 398cc and 598cc or something around there.In between those two comes 498cc or 500cc.Is that any easier for you.Shall i give you a shovel as i am sure yours is well used by now As for any further debate with you.....i refer you to the previous post.Put up or shut up So he didn't mention 500cc as you claimed? Good lad. Admits his error but still claims he is right.. Marvelous. Even if he had, how does it aid your argument that riders aged 14 should be allowed? Now again, despite you trying to rewrite history and squirm out of another of your 'errors'.. the conversation regarding Australia had nothing to do with you proposing competency tests.. it came about because YOU made a direct attack on the UK system of making them wait till they are 15.. as below:- You don't often see those words associated with speedway seeing as they change them or ignore them at the drop of a hat.All a matter of opinion.You have yours and it seems the Lamberts have a differing one.Someone has to convince them that theirs is wrong it seems If we had a youth system that had produced much talent we could say this works,but we don't.We have a world champ that is the product of the Aussie youth system and was a talented rider before he came to our shores.That is about the sum of our international talent.How many other riders do we have that have qualified for the Gps through riding ability?Guess at the moment the Germans have more As can clearly be seen, you have dismissed Woffinden because he is a product of the 'Aussie' system, attempting to use their 'system' as a way of saying that our system of making them wait till they are 15 doesn't work. Of course it totally escaped you that the Aussies make them wait till they are 16, which was completely counter productive to your own argument. A sensible discussion could certainly be had regarding the pipeline of British youngsters and the lack of real successful riders brought through, but the 'age' at which they are allowed to race professionally would have zero effect on that. In actual fact, most experts in this area across all sports would tell you, exposing 14 year olds to competitive professional action is not generally a good thing. The chances of them burning out are far far higher. Edited April 7, 2014 by BWitcher 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Do give up.He mentioned 398cc and 598cc or something around there.In between those two comes 498cc or 500cc.Is that any easier for you.Shall i give you a shovel as i am sure yours is well used by now As for any further debate with you.....i refer you to the previous post.Put up or shut up Are you dyslexic or something ? The figure he actually mentioned was 595 cc. Even when I practically led you to it you still manage to come up with "598cc or something" . The whole point is to illustrate the way you constantly fail to read posts properly then shoot from the hip with all kinds of inaccurate information. The age of 21 is the age you have to be to apply for a licence to drive a machine up to that capacity on the road. It doesn't support your argument that the law of the land doesn't apply to speedway or other sports. If you were riding a machine of that capacity in a road trial or rally on public roads you would still need a licence. The fact that it was a sporting event does not give exemption from legal requirements. However, the context of your post was about possible violence or assaults on the track . What you said was:- But i guess you just have to wonder about the incident last night and if a rider had have kicked Lambert when he was on the track that could well have caused a major incident.You can't compare speedway with driving on the roads,because if that incident last night had happened on a street then someone might....should have ended up in prison.In speedway or in many other sports the law of the land doesn't apply The "incident last night" you are referring to was clearly the Richrd Hall / Josh Auty affair and you talk about if it happened in the street someone would have ended up in prison. The fact of the matter is that the law of the land does apply to such an incident on the sports field /arena but like anywhere else it depends on someone reporting it to the police and them then having enough evidence to prosecute. In the real world these relatively minor incidents don't usually get reported (and I presume Auty is not reporting it) so it will go no further but there have been criminal and civil prosecutions in the past as a result of assaults between sporting competitors. That is the point being made, and that is the point you are wrong about. Auty could, if he was so minded, and if he was hurt and if there was sufficient evidence press charges. However, all the waffle you are bringing up is not relevant to the matter under discussion, which is whether Lambert was justified in his strop by saying he won't ride for team GB because the "authorities"(as he calls them") won't waive the rules for him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Not saying he should get a ban but he's been seeded through to the final so is possibly in breach of some ruling by refusing to ride.How for instance do the ACU look upon refusal to ride in a British championship which at the end of the day comes under their jurisdiction. I think every rider has to sign to say he will ride in certain competitions, when signing for a UK speedway licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 I think every rider has to sign to say he will ride in certain competitions, when signing for a UK speedway licence. Weren't Mark Loram and I think Joe Screen banned early this century for not riding in the British Final? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Haven't we already established that Lambert is riding on a German licence? Hence why he won't do under 21's, Great Britain, British Final's etc or have I misunderstood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Haven't we already established that Lambert is riding on a German licence? Hence why he won't do under 21's, Great Britain, British Final's etc or have I misunderstood? No. I don't think thats be said or is the case. He must be riding on a British license to have been invited by the BSPA/SCB/Whoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I have seen Robert Lambert practice quite a lot and he is definitely a talented lad. Quite possibly he was fast enough to ride against adults at 13 or maybe even 12 so just where do you draw the line? As soon as there is any flexibility there will be parents arguing their kid is a special case. Just suppose Robert had only ridden Speedway and never been in competitive races then I bring my lad along who at 14 has only just started Speedway and isn't as quick as Robert but has 7 years of racing Motocross against 39 other riders at a time. I argue that my lad is safer because he is used to being in a race situation although he's not actually as good on a bike, difficult to argue against and with pushy parents where there's a queue they will be looking to jump it. I still fail to see that one year later on a 500cc is very detrimental to a career, if you need racing there is an U15's Championship, win it easily get some experience and when you are just 16 you can be up against some of the Worlds best every week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Slightly off topic ,but if Germany was so good and helpful to young talent where are all these German "superstar"young kids.Who was Robert competing against to get this vital expieriance that could not be gained at NL level.the odd race against Smolinslki and Schlien was hardly worth mentioning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Slightly off topic ,but if Germany was so good and helpful to young talent where are all these German "superstar"young kids.Who was Robert competing against to get this vital expieriance that could not be gained at NL level.the odd race against Smolinslki and Schlien was hardly worth mentioning. TBF, he rode a few higher level meetings against some good riders. I don't see why there any need to knock his/his parents commitment to go and race in Germany at what is, despite your claims, a higher level than NL racing. Good for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Officially pulled out of the British U21 Final but says he wants to be considered for 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 TBF, he rode a few higher level meetings against some good riders. I don't see why there any need to knock his/his parents commitment to go and race in Germany at what is, despite your claims, a higher level than NL racing. Good for them. It is true, no need to knock them. Although most research and past examples show the chances of the kid becoming disillusioned and burning out are far higher by pushing them so much at an early age. Not talking speedway here per se, but across all sports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Officially pulled out of the British U21 Final but says he wants to be considered for 2015. I take it, he doesnt feel ready to win the British Under 21 final . I really dont know who is advising Robert, doesnt want to do NL bcuz he is to good, well not at Monmore he aint. Doesnt want to do PL, i dont know why, but wants to do EL where i think he will struggle away from The Norfolk arena, especially on Tracks such as Lakeside, and Monmore. Compare Bridger & Tai one took the fast Track route ie direct into the EL, and barely made any progress whatsoever, the other took time to progress through the Leagues, and ended up as World Champ. Robert has plenty of time to take in the EL, personally i would have advised him to do NL & PL for 2014, then PL & EL in 2015 after all he will still be only what 17? in 2015 plenty of time on his side. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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