orion Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 From my experience the Brandon track has always held up well to a bit of rain, on many occasions after rain when its been thought it would be off its been on. I couldn`t believe it when I arrived today to see cars and vans on their way out. It does seem now even more so, that Mick is the innocent party in this pandemoneum. Theres NO excuses for todays call off, the stadium should pay compensation.... Not really any deal he should have done with the Staduim should include him being able to used his own track staff ... if he has not got that in place and then they muck up then the buck has to stop with him . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Why's he the inocent party?. He should have been at the track at some point during the morning to ensure all is in hand, if You lot are very quick to defend horton, why?I agree,Horton just wants to collect admission money and hope it covers his outlays,the man needs to get A grip instead of making excuses.Mind you there has to be doubts about this new track mans thinking , he is not in Poland now and has to adapt to the British climate. Edited March 28, 2014 by Fromafar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) I agree,Horton just wants to collect admission money and hope it covers his outlays,the man needs to get A grip instead of making excuses.Mind you there has to be doubts about this new track mans thinking , he is not in Poland now and has to adapt to the British climate. The problem is mate, there are to many on here defending him, the same way as they defended Sandhu, they are /were ultimately responsable for Coventry speedway now look where the club is...why is the club in such disaray? Edited March 28, 2014 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) To be honest there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between the conditions in summer in terms of rainfall and temperature between Bydogoszcz, for instance, and Coventry . It is not exactly like the difference between UK and Australia or suchlike. In fact Central Poland seems to get a few more mm in summer than Central UK. In other words the different climate excuse might not be explaining everything.[/size][/font][/color] It's not just any "different climate" I was wondering about earlier ... it's the different time of year that the British season starts compared to Poland and, therefore, Coventry's track curator isn't used to adapting March's weather conditions (in either Poland or the UK) towards producing a raceable track. His tactic of trying to blend dry shale into a damp surface has a much better chance of succeeding during April-to-September which is pretty much the full spell of a Polish season but only three-quarters of the UK-season. But in either March or October, the damp surface he's dealing with will almost certainly have a much heavier moisture level than it would have during any of the warmer months because there's far less natural evaporation of the moisture and that makes it much harder (if not impossible) to blend in any dry material. Realistically, the only way to remove heavy moisture in March or October is to do it by removing the track as well because Mother Nature won't separate the water from the shale as wonderfully as she does when it's warmer - in other words, blade everything off until you reach a dry-enough level of the track-base. Effectively, judging by the reports from those who've been at the track, he's trying a perfectly reasonable tactic as long as it's a warmer time of year but a totally stupid tactic given only slightly below-average temperatures for the end of March. And if no-one from the Bees (or any visiting riders & offcials) can get him (or Coventry Stadium) to understand it's not his overall ability that's in doubt, just the little aspect that this tactic doesn't make sense in March, then Brandon's going to remain unraceable until we get at least a week's warmer weather so that he can start his next track-prep with a much less sludgy surface. By the way, who's paying for all this dry shale that's being utterly wasted by getting turned into yet more damp sludge instead of any successful blending - is it the stadium or the Bees ? Edited March 28, 2014 by arthur cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhamboy66 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Coventry team manager Gary Havelock was left frustrated after his sides Elite League clash against local rivals Birmingham was called off – despite no rain falling in the local area throughout the entirety of the day. Havelock, based in Middlesbrough, arrived at the track shortly before the meeting was postponed, however the reason behind the postponement was blurred. Speaking exclusively to Speedway365 shortly after the confirmed postponement, Havelock said “It didn’t look like it had been raining, I spoke to Adam Roynon who said it hadn’t rained at all today. The track was a right old state. “Apparently Jason Garrity had been up the track since 12 o’clock cause he stopped over after racing at Ipswich last night and he said they need to get the big blade to blade it all off. However he (track curator) kept saying we should put some more dry shale on the track and try to pack it down on top of the surface. “From what I was seeing down at the track they’re going to have a problem as long as they keep employing this new track guy. I don’t personally know him but apparently his credentials are to be challenged. All I can say is to go by what Jason Garrity was telling me. “They could’ve gone round and round for the next 20 hours and it wouldn’t of been raceable – that’s how bad it was. To me it’s simple; last year the guy we had doing the track would say number one problem, meet on the first and second corner. After that problem the track was good, smooth and raceable – 95% of the time I was there the track was good. The week before press day they brought in some Polish guy who was the Bydgoszcz track curator – the guy doesn’t speak a word of English and he certainly doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing. “I think this can be an on going issue. Mick is in a difficult situation, he’s the one who puts the money in and signs the riders but he isn’t in charge of track preparation. The stadium seem to be the guys who are working on the track which puts Mick in a difficult situation.” Despite the negativity surrounding the track issues, Havelock does believe Coventry has a strong side and the playoffs are the first target to meet. Said Havelock “Compared to last years team the side looks great. Everybody is raring to go and stuff like this happens. It’s difficult at this point for everybody but thankfully the travelling fans wouldn’t of travelled too far as it was Coventry vs Birmingham. If it’d been Coventry vs Poole or something like that then you’ve got to think of the poor fans that have spent their hard earned money to be turned away with no wheels being turned.” Id be grateful if the Mods do not remove this post, it has not been made up, but copied from Speedway365, so deserves to be read. I have to laugh about Jason Garrity said they should blade it. Without taking sides jason has been riding how long? He is how old? His experience of track prep work is? If there is a debate about track prep and lets face it every rider,team manager and fan is an expert lets actually have some input from someone who has been there and done it for many years. I would suggest only Sandhu and Horton really know the truth about their agreement so i don't see how anyone can have real knowledge either way. Sadly this could be RIP Coventry Speedway which I'm sure even their most bitter rivals would agree is a great shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 It's not just any "different climate" I was wondering about earlier ... it's the different time of year that the British season starts compared to Poland and, therefore, Coventry's track curator isn't used to adapting March's weather conditions (in either Poland or the UK) towards producing a raceable track. Different time ? when I tuned into eurosport tonight they were showing speedway from Poland ? maybe it was a highlights show ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 After the fiasco of the weekend, why on earth would you defend Horton this time - surely the onus was on him to ensure someone was there to sort out the track ... it beggars belief that this has happened again. To be fair to Horton and Coventry Speedway, it appears the new track guy was employed by the Stadium, so its hardly anything to do with Coventry Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Different time ? when I tuned into eurosport tonight they were showing speedway from Poland ? maybe it was a highlights show ? I can understand you pointing out it was live action from Poland tonight but that meeting marked a very early start to the Polish season (especially in a year when Easter's so late) because the Poles usually make a big thing of combining their opening fixtures with the Easter holiday. Coventry's problem tonight appears to be the stubborn continuation of a track-prep tactic that didn't work for either of last weekend's two Brandon meetings on March 21st & 23rd ... you'll do well to find much speedway that's ever taken place in Poland on both those dates. I have to laugh about Jason Garrity said they should blade it. Without taking sides jason has been riding how long? He is how old? His experience of track prep work is? If there is a debate about track prep and lets face it every rider,team manager and fan is an expert lets actually have some input from someone who has been there and done it for many years. Havvy was only referring to Jason Garrity in the respect that Jason had been there for much of today and, therefore, had a good view of what had or hadn't happened with the track-prep (Garrity's based in North-West England but rode for Rye House at Ipswich last night so went straight from Foxhall to Brandon, presumably to use Coventry's pit facilities for cleaning up his machinery from last night). Yes, Jason's still relatively young but his recommendation of blading the track echoes what most riders/officials have been crying out for whether it was at National League level last Friday or the Elite Championship last Sunday or the Bees-&-Brummies tonight. Yet one track curator plus the stadium management seem to know better than the overwhelming view of everyone else !! Edited March 28, 2014 by arthur cross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 To be fair to Horton and Coventry Speedway, it appears the new track guy was employed by the Stadium, so its hardly anything to do with Coventry Speedway. How long can Coventry speedway play that card though? Administration... closure... court case... in that order means no speedway. Something isn't sitting right somewhere, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobee Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Surely it is now incumbent upon Coventry Stadium ( Sandhu & Heaver et co ) to act given this latest fiasco concerning Track Prep at Brandon Stadium - clearly the Curator does not know what he is doing ... the pictures say so, the riders say so, the team manager and ex world champion rider says so ... COME ON GUYS - SORT IT OUT OR COVENTRY SPEEDWAY WILL NOT SURVIVE THIS SEASON !!! Off to Leicester speedway tomorrow night - at least we will see some track action ... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) I can understand you pointing out it was live action from Poland tonight but that meeting marked a very early start to the Polish season (especially in a year when Easter's so late) because the Poles usually make a big thing of combining their opening fixtures with the Easter holiday. Coventry's problem tonight appears to be the stubborn continuation of a track-prep tactic that didn't work for either of last weekend's two Brandon meetings on March 21st & 23rd ... you'll do well to find much speedway that's ever taken place in Poland on both those dates. Been a few meetings in Poland this week and the tracks have been fine ..if you used your logic then they should have been crap as would no idea how to get a track ready in March ..The bottom line whoever is doing the track is not very good at it . Edited March 28, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirateandi Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Bspa will be running out of patience with the shambles being created and can see them being kicked out if this debacle continues any longer and would be thoroughly deserved IMO !! #coventryspeedwayshamblesandembarrasment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 It's not just any "different climate" I was wondering about earlier ... it's the different time of year that the British season starts compared to Poland and, therefore, Coventry's track curator isn't used to adapting March's weather conditions (in either Poland or the UK) towards producing a raceable track. His tactic of trying to blend dry shale into a damp surface has a much better chance of succeeding during April-to-September which is pretty much the full spell of a Polish season but only three-quarters of the UK-season. But in either March or October, the damp surface he's dealing with will almost certainly have a much heavier moisture level than it would have during any of the warmer months because there's far less natural evaporation of the moisture and that makes it much harder (if not impossible) to blend in any dry material. Realistically, the only way to remove heavy moisture in March or October is to do it by removing the track as well because Mother Nature won't separate the water from the shale as wonderfully as she does when it's warmer - in other words, blade everything off until you reach a dry-enough level of the track-base. Effectively, judging by the reports from those who've been at the track, he's trying a perfectly reasonable tactic as long as it's a warmer time of year but a totally stupid tactic given only slightly below-average temperatures for the end of March. And if no-one from the Bees (or any visiting riders & offcials) can get him (or Coventry Stadium) to understand it's not his overall ability that's in doubt, just the little aspect that this tactic doesn't make sense in March, then Brandon's going to remain unraceable until we get at least a week's warmer weather so that he can start his next track-prep with a much less sludgy surface. By the way, who's paying for all this dry shale that's being utterly wasted by getting turned into yet more damp sludge instead of any successful blending - is it the stadium or the Bees ? The material used for British tracks now seems to contain a higher proportion of clay, as compared with seasons gone by. This is possibly down to a combination of cost, and riders preference for having more clay in the material. When clay gets wet, it is a devil of a job for it to dry when the air temperature is below a certain level, such as in (but not exclusively) March and October. That's why the answer is to blade it off. In Poland, they could well use a material with lower clay content, and as you say, don't prepare racing tracks at such extreme ends of the season. So it could be that this guy, although experienced in terms of number of years, is relatively inexperienced in other ways and just doesn't know how to cope with circumstances beyond his knowledge. And doesn't seem able to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTM Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 After the fiasco of the weekend, why on earth would you defend Horton this time ...surely the onus was on him to ensure someone was there to sort out the track ...it beggars belief that this has happened again I have not picked out your post vindictively just as one of many who either will not or cannot understand the position Mick Horton is in as regards track prep.He is the promoter of the Bees as you all accept but he is not got any say in the employment of Stadium staff .The new trackman is employed by Coventry Stadium under the ownership of Avtar Sandhu .Mick only rents the track for bees meetings and he can obviously complain to the management over the state of the track but as I see it Marek( the trackman) needs educating on the different ways of the English weather but unfortunately he seems very anti any help or advice offered.IMO someone needs to try to alleviate this problem from the Stadium or ,Sorry to say for the fans including me , Coventry Bees will be gone forever very soon ...We never had this problem before as in the beginning the Bees were owned and promoted by the Ochiltree family then the same situation carried on when Sandhu bought the Stadium with track staff working for Owner/promoter being the same person. With the change of Bees promotion to M.H he now has no equipment involved with his tenure,all.machinery still being the property of the Stadium.Hope someone can sort it soon the track is one of the best in British speedway if its looked after lovingly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I have not picked out your post vindictively just as one of many who either will not or cannot understand the position Mick Horton is in as regards track prep.He is the promoter of the Bees as you all accept but he is not got any say in the employment of Stadium staff .The new trackman is employed by Coventry Stadium under the ownership of Avtar Sandhu .Mick only rents the track for bees meetings and he can obviously complain to the management over the state of the track but as I see it Marek( the trackman) needs educating on the different ways of the English weather but unfortunately he seems very anti any help or advice offered.IMO someone needs to try to alleviate this problem from the Stadium or ,Sorry to say for the fans including me , Coventry Bees will be gone forever very soon ...We never had this problem before as in the beginning the Bees were owned and promoted by the Ochiltree family then the same situation carried on when Sandhu bought the Stadium with track staff working for Owner/promoter being the same person. With the change of Bees promotion to M.H he now has no equipment involved with his tenure,all.machinery still being the property of the Stadium.Hope someone can sort it soon the track is one of the best in British speedway if its looked after lovingly So Sandhu is to blame, the man who wants the Bees shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 No Rain but the meeting is OFF Just Not good enough and shows clearly why speedway is no longer popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbo Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I did try to convey what the trackman told me the other day that the main source of shale for tracks was from the Leeds are for some reason not available now, come back the good old days of cinders. It appears that the problem is the clay content that has caused the rainoffs. I agree that it not satisfactory but MH has now 4 failed meetings, no home Elite for 2 weeks, he is a businessman who needs revenue, without him we would be like CCFC no home, no team, no future. If you want Speedway we have to see beyond this, difficult I know but's that the state of play at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirl Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Got to feel sorry for all you bees fans. It was a lovely day down the road in the east midlands yesterday and having seen the photo of the track that havvy posted, it looked fantastic! Apparently your track man was the Polish ploughing champion 10 years running and is being replaced by the local Chinese entrepreneur who intends to grow rice on it! Food for thought,what the hell went WONG?? Edited March 29, 2014 by Shirl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Bspa will be running out of patience with the shambles being created and can see them being kicked out if this debacle continues any longer and would be thoroughly deserved IMO !! #coventryspeedwayshamblesandembarrasment Well - we're lucky you aren't running the sport because we cannot afford to lose ANY teams - although this situation needs to be resolved quickly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Is it as simple as: # The stadium owners telling Horton that if he wanted to use the facility in 2014 the track prep must be done by stadium themselves? # If you don't agree then no Coventry Speedway? # Horton agreed to the former to avoid the latter? # If the stadium can't/won't deliver the stadium in a fit state then surely the burden of costs lies with the owners providing the rental contract is fitter for purpose than the track curator? If that's the situation then it's clear where the blame for a unfit track lies, however a bloke as experienced as Horton could surely see a situation like this arising. 'They screw up, I'll get blamed' sort of thing. Where Horton is to blame is in the way he has handled the fall out from an unfit track and how that affects his customers/fans. Questions would of course have been asked why the meetings in question had to be scrapped for the reason they were but the big beef is surely why people were allowed to travel not once but twice to a meeting that had no chance of being on. That that's been allowed to happen is firmly in Horton's court. He's took the stadium owners word for it, not bothered to get his ar$e to Brandon to see the situation for himself, twice. Edited March 29, 2014 by Wolfsbane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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