21st century heathen Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I haven't read every post but I've got the gist of it obviously. Trust speedway to make something so easy so long-winded. Bates has opted out of the draft so should not be included this season. It's not hard on the lad as some suggest and nor is it in any way unfair. He, and he alone, made a choice to back out having known full well what the rules are as he had to sign to that effect. No changes should be allowed unless a rider is out long-term, which we can perhaps define as being a full calendar month for the sake of this post, due to a speedway related injury. If he's dropped from the EL club he's not allowed to ride anywhere for a month. When fit he returns to the back-up list of draft riders as a grade A or B rider as he was originally or can be reinstated with his original club replacing his replacement only. An injured rider dropped can only be replaced by a rider A or B as relates to the injured rider. This will prevent clubs manipulating a situation whereby come PO time they suddenly line up with two grade A riders at reserve. With regard to Bates in general - The lad has some very fast kit but he does seem to think the throttle goes one way and then it has to stay there regardless of what's going on around him. If somebody can get his feet on the ground and channel his speed then he could be an asset if/when he does find his way in to the EL. Dan Greenwood was in the original draft because I recall many, myself included, being surprised that he was overlooked, particularly by Poole, as his late season form was as good as a heat leader in the NL. Going back to the original question raised by the thread author if I may - The obvious answer that most will trot out is Garrity or Newman. These two have similar PL averages. On paper the answer is Kerr as he was around half a point higher in the PL and improved a lot last season. I'll throw another name in the hat though. Lewis Blackbird had a cracking season last season in the NL and PL. His PL average was not too far short of Garrity and Newman and he topped the NL averages. I saw a lot of him with the Heathens, as you might have guessed. He was generally sharp from the starts, quick out front, fast when chasing and always willing to take half a chance when offered to force a pass on the inside or outside. He was good under pressure, as evidenced by his Fours winning ride for us when holding off Boxall under severe pressure, and his team riding skills were superb when riding with Ash Morris. He's at Eastie which, sadly, has become something of a gaters track in recent seasons so I fancy him to make good starts and score very well down there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Completely different situation. Sheffield would have been far too weak 😉 Are you saying that if Sheffield had signed 1 of these riders they would have been weaker than signing Bates ?!! Well I hope he lives ip to expectations because you have done him a grave miss service if not Edited March 14, 2014 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Are you saying that if Sheffield had signed 1 of these riders they would have been weaker than signing Bates ?!! Well I hope he lives ip to expectations because you have done him a grave miss service if not No not what I'm saying at all. No disservice intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 ...and there I was thinking that this new 'young British reserves' ruling was for the benefit of those 'young Brits', that had the ability and willingness to progress and improve???!! But no, its apparantly about 'being fair' or 'unfair' to clubs??! To be quite fair about it, if the PL clubs had played ball - we wouldn't be having these debates!! But that's the great thing, this can do both. It can be a great rule for our youngsters and it can be kept airtight so its one of the few rules which can't be manipulated. A win-win. You are right about the PL, it would have been good to have a pathway rule for this year which meant that NL clubs had to have three British 3 pointers, the PL two and EL clubs one, and then as development improves that could have been expanded in future years. The ideal would be for NL teams to have five or six rookies every year so there is a steady flow of new PL reserves and consequently EL draft riders each season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 But that's the great thing, this can do both. It can be a great rule for our youngsters and it can be kept airtight so its one of the few rules which can't be manipulated. A win-win. You are right about the PL, it would have been good to have a pathway rule for this year which meant that NL clubs had to have three British 3 pointers, the PL two and EL clubs one, and then as development improves that could have been expanded in future years. The ideal would be for NL teams to have five or six rookies every year so there is a steady flow of new PL reserves and consequently EL draft riders each season. What a pity common sense didn't prevail and the Premier league clubs joining the Draft system. Not only would it provide a MORE progressive route for the young brits to improve, but it would have also been a shot in the A.se for all those posters who think the BSPA only think of themselves and not the good of the sport. As it happened the action of the Premier Clubs confirmed just that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 What a pity common sense didn't prevail and the Premier league clubs joining the Draft system. Not only would it provide a MORE progressive route for the young brits to improve, but it would have also been a shot in the A.se for all those posters who think the BSPA only think of themselves and not the good of the sport. As it happened the action of the Premier Clubs confirmed just that. Its a shame but CVS confirmed PL clubs just aren't interested, they clearly love to use foreigners on ridiculously averages. Thank god the EL is doing something to help the next generation as the PL clearly only think of themselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 The Premier League is beginning to be exposed in all honesty. Charging prices almost the equivalent of EL, with much lower costs and showing absolutely no interest in the future of British Speedway. They haven't learned from the cock-ups of the EL at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Its a shame but CVS confirmed PL clubs just aren't interested, they clearly love to use foreigners on ridiculously averages. Thank god the EL is doing something to help the next generation as the PL clearly only think of themselves. . The Premier League is beginning to be exposed in all honesty. Charging prices almost the equivalent of EL, with much lower costs and showing absolutely no interest in the future of British Speedway. They haven't learned from the cock-ups of the EL at all. Some truth in both these posts but a little off the mark IMO. The vast majority of the draft riders are in the PL anyway and already been given their chance by that league. The PL therefore wouldnt be looking at this set of riders for a draft but perhaps the next 30 in line. I agree that the PL should also be offering more opportunities to Brits from the NL and a few more will be again this year eg Carr Crang Rose to follow the many before. With regard to costs yes PL points £ is lower but other fixed costs are the same. Just how much that extra points £ is offset by additional income for the EL is the question. If Sky money or extra sponsors fill that gap then you would expect admission to need to be similar although I agree in principle lower level should equal lower cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 EL prices would have been cheaper this season if the PL promoters hadn't kicked up such a fuss and s**t themselves!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 . Some truth in both these posts but a little off the mark IMO. The vast majority of the draft riders are in the PL anyway and already been given their chance by that league. The PL therefore wouldnt be looking at this set of riders for a draft but perhaps the next 30 in line. I agree that the PL should also be offering more opportunities to Brits from the NL and a few more will be again this year eg Carr Crang Rose to follow the many before. With regard to costs yes PL points £ is lower but other fixed costs are the same. Just how much that extra points £ is offset by additional income for the EL is the question. If Sky money or extra sponsors fill that gap then you would expect admission to need to be similar although I agree in principle lower level should equal lower cost. Not wide of the mark in the slightest. The Premier flat out refused to have any rule introduced that made them have a minimum number of UK riders. That's the be all and end all of it. The costs in the EL are way higher than in the PL, even taking the Sky money into account. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) EL prices would have been cheaper this season if the PL promoters hadn't kicked up such a fuss and s**t themselves!!! I can't see the prices in the Elite lge have to have anything to do with what the Premier clubs charge as it's irrelevant. I live closer to Swindon than I do Somerset so would go to Swindon as a result whether they were even in the same League & Swindon was dearer. The only time it matters is if a fan lives the equal distance from both & then would have to decide & how often does that happen. Elite lge promotors using Premier Lge promotors as an excuse for not dropping the price & that's all it is. Edited March 14, 2014 by Crazy robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIAMONDS Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 To add to this thread I was going to say we have the best pairing then I did some digging into some data and now I'm worried Kerr's NL performances in the crucial heats 13 & 15 were abysmal and he's going to be facing similar or better every race this season. In the PL he only really switch up a gear from about August with most the top performances being at home and spent all season in reserve. Looking at performances against other No'6's or A graders he has gone missing in the past Neilson Garrity Newman Blackbird Ellis Morris Hmmmmm, I just hope I've just over thought this I know this post is old but let me begin... 1.Kerr was great all season for the Diamonds being crucial for us home and away. 2.Kerr has beaten top riders at home and away such as Lasse Bjerre, Rene Bach, Richard Lawson and Ben Barker. 3.Kerr only stayed at reserve all season for the Diamonds because we had such strength in depth, He finished on a 6.09 average (Which is a lot for a reserve.) 4.He took of well before August, I'd say he took of after about 3 meetings. As I agree the new system putting NL riders in the EL is stupid I question weather Lewis would have been in the King's Lynn team if last years rules continued anyway. I don't think King's Lynn's fans and as a club they don't have a thing to worry about having Lewis in the team, He is a Diamond performer. I wish him and everyone else who is brave enough to put their legs over a speedway bike a safe and successful year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I can't see the prices in the Elite lge have to have anything to do with what the Premier clubs charge as it's irrelevant. I live closer to Swindon than I do Somerset so would go to Swindon as a result whether they were even in the same League & Swindon was dearer. The only time it matters is if a fan lives the equal distance from both & then would have to decide & how often does that happen. Elite lge promotors using Premier Lge promotors as an excuse for not dropping the price & that's all it is. Of course it's relevant. If the stronger league is charging equal to or less than a weaker league, questions are going to be asked about the weaker league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 The Premier League is beginning to be exposed in all honesty. Charging prices almost the equivalent of EL, with much lower costs and showing absolutely no interest in the future of British Speedway. They haven't learned from the cock-ups of the EL at all. The last 4 British World Champions all came up through the PL. A former PL rider has finished on the rostrum for the last 14 years bar 2011. The majority of next seasons EL riders started in the PL. The price delta between the 2 leagues isn't a result of a less valued PL product. I have said all along the draft system should have started at PL level, like the 3 2 1 idea - but you can hardly blame them for not wanting to follow a group renowned for rash decisions and 'cock ups'. Would you volunteer to jump aboard a sinking ship. Would be great if they all worked together but too many have their own personal agenda. Until that changes....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Kerr's PL form did't fully transfer to the NL last season though. Saw Cov's P&P today. Garrity was on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIAMONDS Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Kerr's PL form did't fully transfer to the NL last season though. Saw Cov's P&P today. Garrity was on it. I realise that he wasn't taht good in the NL but he proved that he had the class by exploding in the PL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Of course it's relevant. If the stronger league is charging equal to or less than a weaker league, questions are going to be asked about the weaker league. You mis-understand what I'm saying though as I wouldn't stop watching my local team if I lived nearer a Premier Lge team if they were charging the same price as a Elite lge team 50 miles away. You support your local club regardless of what league they are in or what they're charging. Edited March 14, 2014 by Crazy robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I realise that he wasn't taht good in the NL but he proved that he had the class by exploding in the PL I realise that he wasn't taht good in the NL but he proved that he had the class by exploding in the PL He tested alot of thing in the Nl which is what its about also but there is alot of talent in the Nl aswell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I realise that he wasn't taht good in the NL but he proved that he had the class by exploding in the PL I don't disagree but based on what you saw at PL level you can understand if the NL fans at KL were a tad disappointed at times. He tested alot of thing in the Nl which is what its about also but there is alot of talent in the Nl aswell. Both points are fair comment. There were some strong riders at the top end of the NL last season which is what is going to make this EL season so fascinating. The draft riders are going to have a huge impact on how a club's season pans out and there's little to choose between many of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 . Some truth in both these posts but a little off the mark IMO. The vast majority of the draft riders are in the PL anyway and already been given their chance by that league. The PL therefore wouldnt be looking at this set of riders for a draft but perhaps the next 30 in line. I agree that the PL should also be offering more opportunities to Brits from the NL and a few more will be again this year eg Carr Crang Rose to follow the many before. With regard to costs yes PL points £ is lower but other fixed costs are the same. Just how much that extra points £ is offset by additional income for the EL is the question. If Sky money or extra sponsors fill that gap then you would expect admission to need to be similar although I agree in principle lower level should equal lower cost. Not wide of the mark in the slightest. The Premier flat out refused to have any rule introduced that made them have a minimum number of UK riders. That's the be all and end all of it. The costs in the EL are way higher than in the PL, even taking the Sky money into account. I agree with Bwitcher (had to lie down to type that!) it isnt far off the mark at all. That is precisely what the PL should be doing for the NEXT generation of NL youngsters. Anyway despite the EL getting lots of grief and deservedly so at times, at least they are the league that is looking towards the future. Some will no doubt argue that it is `only a cost cutting exercise` so they dont care. At least me know that the PL lot care even less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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