James Easter Tells It Like It Is

[BluPanther]

An interesting remark...actually I personally paid for Bill's air ticket to Ipswich that year. I never claimed that OR other monies owed from either the estate..such as it was..or the family. Similarly John Berry paid for absolutely EVERYTHING involved in that tragic incident. There are many, many other matters both financial and private, you know nothing about...and never will.You are trying to make a "Cheap point which has absolutely no basis in fact. Sadly JB is not around to defend himself. There are about 5 people who were close enough to fully involved..and you my friend were not one of them.

That is your opinion, but an inaccurate and misguided one..

[TonyMac]

Regarding the issue with Sanders, why shouldn't a rider get the best deal he can? That is typical of the mindset of some promoters - my way or the highway. If Billy wanted to negotiate a better deal, then he should have been able to. I am happy in my job, but if I felt a change was in my interests and could get a similar position elsewhere with more pay, why should I not try to? And should my employer be able to control what other potential employers would offer me? And we wonder why speedway is in a mess. Honestly.

Think you're missing the point here. The fact that promoters don't stick to a rigid and sensible maximum pay agreement across the board (history tells us they very rarely have) is one of the main reasons why many promoters are losing money and tracks are unsustainable at current attendance levels.

 

What John Berry was effectively saying to his fellow promoters at the time was, 'if you give in to Billy's demands, then it will open the floodgates for other top riders to demand more and more each season', and then we'll all be up s*** creek without a paddle.

 

Which is exactly what has continued to happen year on year, even though attendances have gone the other way. In fact, it's not only the top riders who are demanding far more than they will ever be worth in a commercial sense.

That is your opinion, but an inaccurate and misguided one..

With respect, no-one has done more to protect and preserve Billy's reputation since his tragic death than James and JB combined. You, and others who were not that close to the situation, will never know how much they did, and, indeed, continue to do.

 

It appears that too many individuals have taken James' comments out of context and, in many cases, too personally.

 

Of course, he would never deny any supporter the right to voice his or her opinion.

 

But the tone of much venomous and personal criticism of promoters and other officials on here has been OTT.

Edited February 18, 2014 by tmc

[oldace]

.

 

"I remember being with John Berry at one of the winter conferences at a time when he was having a lot of trouble trying to do a deal with Billy Sanders, who wanted a lot more money than Ipswich were offering him. So during one meeting of the general council, JB told them all exactly what was going on with Sanders and asked for everyones agreement not to approach his star rider or offer him more money under any circumstances. If they did, he warned them that he would never deal with them or do them any favours ever again. And they all stuck by that verbal agreement, it worked. No-one else came in for Billy and so he stayed with Ipswich on the same money as before. Promoters have got to stick together in this way."

 

 

 

 

Mmm. That is the exact story told by Ivan Mauger in the 1981 Lada yearbook. If memory serves Ivan didn't name Billy, merely referred to a top Australian international rider. The only slight difference is that in Ivans version two promoters got straight onto the phone to Billy and near doubled his salary

 

Are we to assume that the exact same situation happened twice with polar opposite outcomes or someone is getting their facts mixed up

[Grand Central]

Actually I think both Tony and James Easter are missing several points here.

 

First of all, the goings on over Billy Sanders were an attempt to operate a cartel.

To create a system where there is no free collective or individual bargaining; that the wages for all would be set at the dictat of the 'employer'.

There were times in the, now distant, past when this was acceptable. Those times were on their way out in the early eighties.

It is frankly bizarre to lament their passing in the way you both seem to be doing.

 

Wages for Journalists and Travel Agents are not set in such a fashion, so why Speedway Riders?

 

Speedway Promotions should have only paid riders what their own business could afford and have negoitiated with the riders accordingly.

The fact that the promoters have found that they have not been up to this is a seperate issue.

And one for which those poor, poor men deserve every criticism going.

 

Secondly, if the man's words have been taken out of context in any way, then who is to blame?

Possibly the man giving us the carefully selected segments of quotes?

 

It seems fairly clear from the snippets that you have given that Mr Easter definitely does think he has more entitlement to offfer criticism specifically because he briefly was a Promoter himself. And that others who have just paid at the turnstiles throughout the whole of their Speedway-attending life do not deserve to be heard with the same respect.

 

Frankly he made it personal right there.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Grand Central

[oldace]

 

 

Wages for Journalists and Travel Agents are not set in such a fashion, so why Speedway Riders?

 

Speedway Promotions should have only paid riders what their own business could afford and have negoitiated with the riders accordingly.

The fact that the promoters have found that they have not been up to this is a seperate issue.

And one for which those poor, poor men deserve every criticism going.

 

 

 

 

Like the business model that has 99% of all football clubs bankrupt with clubs forced to pay silly money to compete with the likes of City or Chelsea.

 

Such a policy can work in a normal business but with a sports club it is vital that all clubs are financially successful and an across the board pay policy would be the way to go for that to happen

[Grand Central]

Like the business model that has 99% of all football clubs bankrupt with clubs forced to pay silly money to compete with the likes of City or Chelsea.

Such a policy can work in a normal business but with a sports club it is vital that all clubs are financially successful and an across the board pay policy would be the way to go for that to happen

Professional Sport is a 'normal business'.

 

People can close their eyes, very tightly and make the biggest, bestest 'wish" they can, as they blow out the candles on their Birthday Cake.

But it won't turn back time to the days when a Pay policy would hold.

If it ever did.

[oldace]

Professional Sport is a 'normal business'.

 

People can close their eyes, very tightly and make the biggest, bestest 'wish" they can, as they blow out the candles on their Birthday Cake.

But it won't turn back time to the days when a Pay policy would hold.

If it ever did.

Professional sport is the total opposite to normal business, particularly sports like speedway. While in normal business you have little regard for your competitors financial well being, quite the opposite in fact, with sport you want (need) all your competitors to be successful financially. You can't be a sports club in isolation, you need others to play/race against.

 

For speedway competition starts and finishes on track, it doesn't continue beyond that.

 

In an ideal world every club would start with an equal chance, certainly they must be able to potentially win most home matches and be competitive away

 

Of course one team would win and one would be last but it shouldn't be a hopeless last, unable to win a match with crowds dropping through the floor

[Grand Central]

Professional sport is the total opposite to normal business, particularly sports like speedway. While in normal business you have little regard for your competitors financial well being, quite the opposite in fact, with sport you want (need) all your competitors to be successful financially. You can't be a sports club in isolation, you need others to play/race against.

For speedway competition starts and finishes on track, it doesn't continue beyond that.

In an ideal world every club would start with an equal chance, certainly they must be able to potentially win most home matches and be competitive away

Of course one team would win and one would be last but it shouldn't be a hopeless last, unable to win a match with crowds dropping through the floor

Clearly, we disagree on far, far more than just a pay policy..

[TonyMac]

Like the business model that has 99% of all football clubs bankrupt with clubs forced to pay silly money to compete with the likes of City or Chelsea.

 

Such a policy can work in a normal business but with a sports club it is vital that all clubs are financially successful and an across the board pay policy would be the way to go for that to happen

Well said, Oldace - you clearly get it.

[SCB]

Must admit, I'm missing the criticism of trying to keep wages down. Makes perfect sense to me. Ok I'd be annoyed if I was the rider but I'm annoyed that I dont think I get paid enough now.

[Grand Central]

Must admit, I'm missing the criticism of trying to keep wages down. Makes perfect sense to me. Ok I'd be annoyed if I was the rider but I'm annoyed that I dont think I get paid enough now.

But if your annoyance at how much your employer was paying you got too great I presume you may think about looking to pastures new.

I just don't think you would find it acceptable if all the employers had met up beforehand and set the pay for you in your job.

Leaving you with no options at all.

You may even get a little litigious.

 

Mind you if you were any good at your job I bet one of the other employers would find a way of paying you that little bit extra 'under the table' .

So why kid our selves that it would ever be different just because it's Speedway.

 

Keeping wages down by good negotiation is one thing.

The wild imagining of being able to maintain a 'maximum' pay scale is just fantasy.

[TonyMac]

Must admit, I'm missing the criticism of trying to keep wages down. Makes perfect sense to me. Ok I'd be annoyed if I was the rider but I'm annoyed that I dont think I get paid enough now.

Of course it makes good sense.

 

And if British promoters would stand up to riders who demand the earth (not just points money, but guarantees and extra cash for mechanics and transport), then it would now be in a much healthier state.

 

When run of the mill riders, who don't put 'bums on seats' but just bleed their club dry, are getting £200 per point in the Elite League, it can only end in tears.

 

If riders are not earning what they think they are worth, then they are free to go and seek employment elsewhere, like any other working man or woman. That doesn't mean it would be wrong of promoters to try and impose a wage ceiling across the board. The trouble is, there is always someone prepared to break ranks in their foolish pursuit of glory.

 

Promoters who lack John Berry's business acumen don't have the balls or the nous, or both, to call the riders' bluff in this way, which is one of the main reasons the sport is in such a mess. How can anyone be 'earning' £100-£200 per point when there are less than 1,000 people in the stadium paying to watch them?

 

Bewildering.

Edited February 18, 2014 by tmc

[Grand Central]

Of course it makes good sense.

 

And if British promoters would stand up to riders who demand the earth (not just points money, but guarantees and extra cash for mechanics and transport), then it would now be in a much healthier state.

 

When run of the mill riders, who don't put 'bums on seats' but just bleed their club dry, are getting £200 per point in the Elite League, it can only end in tears.

 

If riders are not earning what they think they are worth, then they are free to go and seek employment elsewhere, like any other working man or woman. That doesn't mean it would be wrong of promoters to try and impose a wage ceiling across the board. The trouble is, there is always someone prepared to break ranks in their foolish pursuit of glory.

 

Promoters who lack John Berry's business acumen don't have the balls or the nous, or both, to call the riders' bluff in this way, which is one of the main reasons the sport is in such a mess. How can anyone be 'earning' £100-£200 per point when there are less than 1,000 people in the stadium paying to watch them?

 

Bewildering.

 

So we completely agree.

The Promoters are totally mental not to keep their payments to riders within the limitations of their own business.

And year after year they continue the insanity.

 

And we also agree that a maximum wage scale would never work as they would always break it.

 

But isn't it good that two people who have never been promoters can still criticise them.

And don't feel inhibited by Mr Easters rather different view.

[orion]

So we completely agree.

The Promoters are totally mental not to keep their payments to riders within the limitations of their own business.

But you don't the limitations as don't know what sort of crowds you are going to get . Every time you have to weight up what you might pay a rider in the hope that the extra numbers will make it pay . Little point putting out a cheap team then no one turning up as you can lose more money doing it that way

[Grand Central]

But you don't the limitations as don't know what sort of crowds you are going to get . Every time you have to weight up what you might pay a rider in the hope that the extra numbers will make it pay . Little point putting out a cheap team then no one turning up as you can lose more money doing it that way

.

Absolutely right,

That's why it's not easy running any business, I can tell you.

As these are the decisions we face each year, each week and each day..

Get it right and you prosper; wrong and you fail.

 

Stock decisions, whether to pay for 'talent' or take on new sales people.

Businesses constantly have to take decisions without KNOWING that they will bear fruit.

It's what we do!

Edited February 18, 2014 by Grand Central

[spiegal]

Of course everyone has, and should always have the absolute right to express their opinion...that is democracy. Indeed If you are in any profession or sport you must accept the praise and brickbats which go hand in hand with the job.It was always my dream to promote Speedway, but eventually the time ratio against my own business, and the distances involved, meant that it was not possible and so I departed Peterborough. BUT I had a go...and more so with a bankrupt club on a sound financial footing and at the same time having achieved some success. I wasn't that good at promoting..but I tried..and to an extent I achieved something for the club and its fans.

 

On the matters of wages..I stand corrected but I think that USA BASEBALL has a wage cap..possibly also Ice Hockey. BUT again i accept that it is almost impossible to legislate for that in Europe...BUT just think of the numbers of perfectly good young English riders who have been lost to the sport.Look at CRADLEY...MILDENHALL...they are at least trying to look at the sport in a new light. But .If you actually READ the whole interview in BACKTRACK..I did come up with at least 1 idea of looking at the structure in a different way.

 

I totally agree that it is absolute insanity that any sporting venture has expenditure in excess of income...the list of people/tracks doing this is long and the list of perfectly able Promoters who have entered the Sport convinced that they could "Turn around a club" makes disturbing reading....The 2013 losses at my old track, well they must have been horrendous...and yet currently still new people come in convinced they have "The answer". If something major is not attempted shortly then the only result however near/far would be the extinction of the club, and eventually the sport. Always remember that you need opposition to actually stage any event....that is where the 1970/80 promoters had it right. ...

 

Football is an even more diabolical example of money ruining the sport. How many kids can afford to go the Premier league......TV runs the game...but at least with the "Fair Play" scheme they are trying to address the problem.The FA has invested in St George's Park..using the TV money....Sadly Speedway for whatever reason has not utilised TV money to actually INVEST in anything..merely to keep an uneconomic track afloat and also pay Riders more and more money...Speedway is a truly great sport, It has everything,but it has lost its way with the entry paying public.

[Grand Central]

Great post by Mr Easter, I do not argue with any part.

Thanks

[The White Knight]

Of course it makes good sense.

 

And if British promoters would stand up to riders who demand the earth (not just points money, but guarantees and extra cash for mechanics and transport), then it would now be in a much healthier state.

 

When run of the mill riders, who don't put 'bums on seats' but just bleed their club dry, are getting £200 per point in the Elite League, it can only end in tears.

 

If riders are not earning what they think they are worth, then they are free to go and seek employment elsewhere, like any other working man or woman. That doesn't mean it would be wrong of promoters to try and impose a wage ceiling across the board. The trouble is, there is always someone prepared to break ranks in their foolish pursuit of glory.

 

Promoters who lack John Berry's business acumen don't have the balls or the nous, or both, to call the riders' bluff in this way, which is one of the main reasons the sport is in such a mess. How can anyone be 'earning' £100-£200 per point when there are less than 1,000 people in the stadium paying to watch them?

 

Bewildering.

 

Great Post.

 

Particularly the last paragraph.

[Dave the Mic]

Think you're missing the point here. The fact that promoters don't stick to a rigid and sensible maximum pay agreement across the board (history tells us they very rarely have) is one of the main reasons why many promoters are losing money and tracks are unsustainable at current attendance levels.What John Berry was effectively saying to his fellow promoters at the time was, 'if you give in to Billy's demands, then it will open the floodgates for other top riders to demand more and more each season', and then we'll all be up s*** creek without a paddle.Which is exactly what has continued to happen year on year, even though attendances have gone the other way. In fact, it's not only the top riders who are demanding far more than they will ever be worth in a commercial sense.With respect, no-one has done more to protect and preserve Billy's reputation since his tragic death than James and JB combined. You, and others who were not that close to the situation, will never know how much they did, and, indeed, continue to do.It appears that too many individuals have taken James' comments out of context and, in many cases, too personally.Of course, he would never deny any supporter the right to voice his or her opinion.But the tone of much venomous and personal criticism of promoters and other officials on here has been OTT.

Tony, with the greatest of respect, I'm not missing anything. What was attempted was a cartel. Whichever way you look at it, it stinks. John Berry wanted to keep,his star rider "in his place" and attempted to do so by trying to ensure no one else would offer him a better deal. At the time Bill was one of THE top men in speedway. Why would he not try to get a better deal?

 

I agree that many lesser riders, particularly in the sport today, are trying to get paid more than their ability would suggest they are worth and that may well also have been the case then. However, Sanders was a star and genuine draw card and should not have been prevented from obtaining a deal commensurate with his status.

 

I'm not suggesting that James or JB didn't do a lot for Billy, but preventing him from getting paid what he was worth was not to his benefit, regardless of how you may see it.

 

Finally, the financial situation then in speedway was a "little" different to the situation now and based on your comment, riders should not have been able to negotiate a better deal if they could get it. Really? Was John Berry not saying in fact "i want to keep my star rider on what I want to pay him, as I want to keep him on my terms"?

 

I doubt many, if any of the top line riders then, or now, would accept or have accepted this kind of going on, why should Billy?

Edited February 18, 2014 by Dave the Mic

[Humphrey Appleby]

Speedway Promotions should have only paid riders what their own business could afford and have negoitiated with the riders accordingly.

The fact that the promoters have found that they have not been up to this is a seperate issue.

 

Yes, but what happens when one team can afford all the best riders, or a team happens to need a particular rider to fit the points limit and there's no-one else available? Whilst a level playing field is never going to be entirely achievable, most teams at least need to start out competitive.

 

Whilst on the one hand I can see the riders point about being able to get what they can, the practical reality is absurd wages being paid compared to the revenue coming in. There's surely got to be a balance somewhere.