New Science Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 "The FIM decision is also an obvious attack on the One Sport company, whose conflict with the organizer Grand Prix - BSI has been known for a long time." Typical Sportowefakty propoganda.... FIM and BSI are bad boys bla bla blaaa. I'm not to sure about this, does anyone have an official FIM statement? Not sure what good the F.I.M has ever done for speedway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 When you buy a license from your federation, you at the same time promise to act according to the rules. In this case, Svemo should/could have revoked their license in Svemo. That would have meant (unless swedish folk speedway is a member of UEM or FIm, which I seriously doubt) that the riders in question would not have been allowed to ride in any outside SFS meetings. I doubt it. It's anti-competitive to ban competitors who want to ride in a competition authorised by another body, and any governing body trying to do so will leave themselves open to legal action. The motor sport authorities in the UK have long given up on this, and MSA/ACU-licensed competitors and venues can freely compete in and host non-MSA/ACU events. Or is this a direct attack on FIM Europe who sold more to to One Sport than was in their right? If European Championships fell within FIM Europe's remit, then presumably they can sell the commercial rights the same as the FIM proper can sell the commercial rights for World Championship events. I'd imagine when the FIM endorsed the creation of the Continental Unions, they assumed the regional competitions would supplement or act as feeder competitions to their world championships. Unfortunately though, the problem in speedway is that most/all professional events already take place in Europe, so any European Championship is invariably going to parallel existing World Championships. Unless there was some sort of agreement between the FIM and FIM Europe (or the forerunner UEM) to demarcate who could ride in what from the outset, then they're trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. However, this at least highlights the high costs of running under the FIM, and perhaps shines a bit of light on its business practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I doubt it. It's anti-competitive to ban competitors who want to ride in a competition authorised by another body, and any governing body trying to do so will leave themselves open to legal action.The motor sport authorities in the UK have long given up on this, and MSA/ACU-licensed competitors and venues can freely compete in and host non-MSA/ACU events.This might have something to do with a different insurance policy systems in the UK, then lets say Finland. If the two federations have made a deal inside UK, that it's ok to ride in both, then thats great. And with the insurance system I mean, that (I'm told by bsf people in the past) that when you go and practise in a UK speedway track, you always need to buy insurance for that session... Over here I need to belong to a club that belongs to SML so I can buy a national level license. With that license comes insurance for all my practise and competitions during the year, anywhere. Then i can buy an international license on top of that, so I can ride abroad. Thanks to a system between the international federations, to ride in a meeting abroad, I only need a starting permit issued by SML and the appropriate license. With the permit SML states that all my insurance and other mandatory stuff has been dealt with and in case of an injury the SML license covers it and the local organizer is "off the hook". This is how the FIM system works. Only one club, one nation for a rider per year, only from the country that you have a passport to. And in Finlands case, we only have one reqocnised federation... And I'm quite confident, that Svemo is the only recoqnised Swedish fed when it comes to Fim and fim europe. So in my example, the riders that would have ridden for SFS, would have broken the svemo rules having ridden in a meeting without a svemo permit. Revoke their licenses for breaking the rules, deny them a starting permit for riding abroad... Nobody would touch them after that. EDIT: and when you buy a license, it says that at that moment you have read the rules and promise to act accordingly. So how can any Eu court touch that agreement, since you have given up that right to "freedom between federations". Edited February 13, 2014 by f-s-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 EDIT: and when you buy a license, it says that at that moment you have read the rules and promise to act accordingly. So how can any Eu court touch that agreement, since you have given up that right to "freedom between federations". All of this looks good,but surely if what Ghostwalker said about the Swedish court case is correct then we have a proven case in law.......nuff said Sometimes it can be the case that certain agreements can be unlawful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 All of this looks good,but surely if what Ghostwalker said about the Swedish court case is correct then we have a proven case in law.......nuff said Sometimes it can be the case that certain agreements can be unlawful. Dont remember If I said it correctly the first time, but they shouldn't have tried to forbid them from riding for SFS. Let them ride, then revoke their svemo license and the season is done (apart from SFS). Nothing much came from SFS in the end??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 And with the insurance system I mean, that (I'm told by bsf people in the past) that when you go and practise in a UK speedway track, you always need to buy insurance for that session... I don't know 100% how it works in UK speedway, but I believe the ACU operates along similar lines to the MSA. When racing under an MSA permit you do get public liability insurance amongst other things, but that doesn't preclude unlicensed (or alternatively licensed) events from obtaining their own insurance. Obviously there are reciprocal agreements between official national federations and the world governing body with respect to the licensing system, but as far as I know there are no sanctions if you compete in an unlicensed event (and rightly so). That's the decision (and risk) of the competitor, and to insist on exclusivity with a single governing body would be anti-competitive. I can see that in professional sport it might be possible to insist on a exclusive contract with one competition, but if speedway riders are riding in several national leagues as well as the SGP, then I think it would be hard to argue why they shouldn't be allowed to ride in the SEC as well. EDIT: and when you buy a license, it says that at that moment you have read the rules and promise to act accordingly. So how can any Eu court touch that agreement, since you have given up that right to "freedom between federations". Organisations still can't make anti-competitive rules, especially where it involves international movement of labour. I'd be very surprised if it were any different in Finland or Sweden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't know 100% how it works in UK speedway, but I believe the ACU operates along similar lines to the MSA. When racing under an MSA permit you do get public liability insurance amongst other things, but that doesn't preclude unlicensed (or alternatively licensed) events from obtaining their own insurance.Obviously there are reciprocal agreements between official national federations and the world governing body with respect to the licensing system, but as far as I know there are no sanctions if you compete in an unlicensed event (and rightly so). That's the decision (and risk) of the competitor, and to insist on exclusivity with a single governing body would be anti-competitive.I can see that in professional sport it might be possible to insist on a exclusive contract with one competition, but if speedway riders are riding in several national leagues as well as the SGP, then I think it would be hard to argue why they shouldn't be allowed to ride in the SEC as well.Organisations still can't make anti-competitive rules, especially where it involves international movement of labour. I'd be very surprised if it were any different in Finland or Sweden. Just for the last bit, I havent checked since I'm not that interesfed. But I had to dig deep in to this license business last season, so unless they changed the lot last weekend, I'm pretty confident I'm right on how the system works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Dont remember If I said it correctly the first time, but they shouldn't have tried to forbid them from riding for SFS. Let them ride, then revoke their svemo license and the season is done (apart from SFS). Nothing much came from SFS in the end??? Just can't see that standing up to a court case.We are talking about top riders.So they go to court and it has to be stated why a licence was revoked.........The SFS is or maybe was if it no longer exists very small time.It looks like this new adventure with One Sport has a bit more backing,so might not just go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Dont remember If I said it correctly the first time, but they shouldn't have tried to forbid them from riding for SFS. Let them ride, then revoke their svemo license and the season is done (apart from SFS). Nothing much came from SFS in the end??? Initially in Sweden this was a case between SBF (Swedish car sports federation) and an alternative new motorsport federation called Motorsportalliansen (MA). The situation was the same, SBF considered themselves to have the right to implement loyalty clauses that would mean a ban on drivers and staff from entering events organized by other competing Swedish motorsport federations such as MA and a very heavy fine if they still would ignore the ban. This was brought to court by SBF and marknadsdomstolen (MD). SBF wanted MD to get an advance ruling from the EU-court in Brussels which MD agreed on since they considered it their obligation as last instance to get such a ruling from the EU-court if there were questions regarding the EU-rules for such matters if they could be decided by guidance of principles that had been set as praxis. The ruling was that even if some of the claims from SBF that they provided sports for all, that they supported child and youth sport, that SBF made sure that competition was held under equal and fair forms wouldn't be helped by the ban asked by SBF. MD considered that even if these claims were legitimate, a test was needed to determine if the rules that SBF wanted to use, was necessary and proportional to fulfil the purposes mentioned above (aka the claims). MD found that even if the rules/loyalty clauses that SBF wanted to use could be considered to have a good purpose, MD ruled that total ban would to be to go to far and the purposes that SBF claimed that SBF needed the rules (ban) for could not justify the competition preventing rules. MD also found/ruled that neither could SBF rules be considered to be justified by the exception in the 2 chapter § 2 in KL (konkurrenslagen (KL) / antitrust law) and article 101.3 FEU (not sure what that is), The SBF rules could also not be justified by chapter 1, § 2 in KL which relegates agreements between employers and employees. Since MD is the highest instance for these types of matters this ruling could not be appealed further. For the latest part regarding employers and employees, I would assume that it means that drivers (riders) should be considered as self-employed freelancers that can work for anyone anywhere at anytime. The FIM hires them for the SGPs but that does not means that they have exclusive right to the riders and these are free to take up other offers on work when/where/however they like without anyone give them bans or fines for doings o. As I said and as it says, this ruling was based on the laws of the Europeans Union and an advanced ruling from the EU-court. You can read the ruling here: http://www.notisum.se/rnp/domar/md/MD012016.htm http://www.marknadsdomstolen.se/Filer/Avg%C3%B6randen/Dom2012-16.pdf A couple of articles: http://www.delphi.se/$-1/file/nyhetsbrev/svenska-artiklar/1303-eklundlundgrennielsen-konkurrensrattsliga.pdf http://www.svd.se/sport/privat-bilsportforbund-fick-ratt_7770950.svd http://rod.se/marknadsdom-hot-mot-den-ideella-sektorn http://www.kkv.se/t/Page____7981.aspx http://www.bilsport.se/artikel/motorsporten-riskerarfalla-samman-efter-dom/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Honestly don't see any riders opting for the SEC over the SGP now that riders can choose their own numbers .It's what they have wanted for ages now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy jimmy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Is it just me that feels the whole Euroean Championship is just a series of open meetings? Vaculik won it, lets be honest, who really cares? The whole event really was around the Russian round, the 2 Polish rounds were long and drawn out and about half full. If the Euros are to get credibility outside Russia, they need to be on the inside looking out, not the outside looking in. Edited February 13, 2014 by jimmy jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy jimmy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Honestly don't see any riders opting for the SEC over the SGP now that riders can choose their own numbers .It's what they have wanted for ages now Ha ha, it doesn't take much then to buy loyalty in this sport! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Honestly don't see any riders opting for the SEC over the SGP now that riders can choose their own numbers .It's what they have wanted for ages now However and I certainly didn`t see this coming-SEC also can have their own numbers !!! Mr G is 20 as a tribute to the Polish football legend Zbigniew Boniek.Grigory Laguta is 111 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Is it just me that feels the whole Euroean Championship is just a series of open meetings? Vaculik won it, lets be honest, who really cares? The whole event really was around the Russian round, the 2 Polish rounds were long and drawn out and about half full. If the Euros are to get credibility outside Russia, they need to be on the inside looking out, not the outside looking in. Agree wholeheartedly and voiced as such last season - but was generally shot down by those with the opinion that 'any speedway is better than no speedway at all'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Agree wholeheartedly and voiced as such last season - but was generally shot down by those with the opinion that 'any speedway is better than no speedway at all'!! One shouldn`t forget that apart from the seeded GP riders in the SEC last season not many of the others took part in qualifying-that could be different this season and it could end up very much a mini (GP)series-obviously riders excluded are Holder,Ward and Hancock plus the Brits ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunichMassive Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 If this decision by the FIM will not be withdrawn i will cancel my UK Trip, i will not go to the Stockholm GP and i will also stay at home when they host the Prague GP. And so do many others. Polish Fans have their loyalty with ONE Sport and they will also stay away from the GPs.If the FIM and BSI want to bury SGP then go on. This is a very childish act, instead of working against each other they should try to work together in a way. We all want the sport to move forward, why do those people always act against the will of the riders, fans and so on? Basically the riders and the fans keep this sport alive. If the fans stay away from the racing, there wont be speedway no more as we know it. I think even BSI would benefit from a successfull SEC Series, there will be more people watching, maybe attracting new companies to jump in as a sponsor and so on. This is such a shame so i really hope when One Sport going to court, they will be successfull and the guys from FIM will be getting a fat kick in their lazy asses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Polish Fans have their loyalty with ONE Sport Why? Do you think One Sport are doing it for the benefit of speedway? BSI are a British company (albeit ultimately owned by a US corporation), but I hold no candle for them whatsoever. People have to move beyond national interests and not listen to propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskiZuzel Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 ... Do you think One Sport are doing it for the benefit of speedway? For a start OneSport events are beamed to more viewers that BSI ones. They pay more to riders for their efforts so that alone is beneficial to speedway. Perhaps you think that the latest FIM's decision will bring greater benefits to speedway, do you ? and as we are on the subject - what benefit to speedway brings BSI ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 For a start OneSport events are beamed to more viewers that BSI ones. They pay more to riders for their efforts so that alone is beneficial to speedway. Perhaps you think that the latest FIM's decision will bring greater benefits to speedway, do you ? and as we are on the subject - what benefit to speedway brings BSI ? On your first paragraph the first claim is questionable and the second is just crap. Your posts on the other hand have recently been beneficial for the the forum regarding your views, and insight. IMHO, if anyone cares = ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunichMassive Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Why? Do you think One Sport are doing it for the benefit of speedway? BSI are a British company (albeit ultimately owned by a US corporation), but I hold no candle for them whatsoever. People have to move beyond national interests and not listen to propaganda. Yes why not? Those people love the sport just like us. Of course they want to earn money and have to look at themselves, that is business, but Speedway does benefit from their work. I dont see any reason why not? tell me bout it. they bring in new venues, put it on free tv and so on. If you disagree tell my why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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