chucks Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 When visiting Kings Lynn I paid concession rate as did the carer which is more than generous. The track with the free carer don't advertise it for fear it being abused. how can it be abused the law is the law., on this case was not a lawyer ,but a barrister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 As for the person who asked am I really comparing a disabled person to a child, then yes. I'll throw a question back at the same person, do you think it's a good idea to let kids go off to speedway on their own? Because I don't. What if it's a child thats disabled? Does being a child trump being disabled or vice-versa? Free entry for having a disabled kid or have to pay as you're a parent and "that's just parenthood"? Tbh, having a child is a choice.Having a disabled child or s disability is generally not. I think thats a fundamental difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) So is Star Lady going to be called names for saying careers should not get free entry? FWIW, I think shes spot on, some discount maybe but free? As for the person who asked am I really comparing a disabled person to a child, then yes. I'll throw a question back at the same person, do you think it's a good idea to let kids go off to speedway on their own? Because I don't. What if it's a child thats disabled? Does being a child trump being disabled or vice-versa? Free entry for having a disabled kid or have to pay as you're a parent and "that's just parenthood"? She not saying that though, she's just pointing out, based on here experience, the difficulties & possible options for dealing with the situation. And yes, comparing a child to a disabled person is ridiculous. Ever thought of applying to work at the DWP. Edited February 9, 2014 by Crump99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 google,posabilty.magazine. scroll down to the third item regarding the barbican theatre york. this is a fresh case only 3 days ago. look forward to any comment,s Tbh, having a child is a choice. Having a disabled child or s disability is generally not. I think thats a fundamental difference. You're all looking at this backwards. I've asked if a child goes to speedway, should the parents have to pay. Not if a parents goes to speedway should they pay for their child. Not if a disabled person goes should he pay. 5 year old Johnny rocks up to the York Barbican Theatre and says, "I'd like to pay for my ticket please, and my carer (mother) would like a free ticket because I can't go on my own I'm only 5". Will the Barbican Theatre agree to this? Because if not, little Johnny is being victimised as a child. Just one of the many ways the UKs equality and diversity laws are a load of bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) how can it be abused the law is the law., on this case was not a lawyer ,but a barrister.Of course it can be abused. Scenario - Johnny is disabled but can manage alone if necessary. Johnny has a mate who also likes speedway and pays to attend. Johnny says to his friend "come as my carer and get in free, we'll split the cost of my admission". Result 2 attendees but only one pays. Loser - the promoter and those disabled folk who genuinely need a carer. Don't say it doesn't happen, it does. If the law says a carer must always be admitted free then the law is an ass! Edited February 9, 2014 by Star Lady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 But if psrents take a child, they, not the child, are likely picking up the bill. With a disabled person, it is likely thst they and not the carer have to pick up the bill. That's a fundamental difference imho. I dont think that clubs should HAVE to offer carers or disabled people concession rate s. But I think it is morally the right thing to do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 As an aside one faciltiy that has been added at Foxhall is a wheelchair viewing platform between turns 1&2. There is a sign stating wheelchair users +1 carer which of course is no indication as to whether or how much they have to pay. You're all looking at this backwards. I've asked if a child goes to speedway, should the parents have to pay. Not if a parents goes to speedway should they pay for their child. Not if a disabled person goes should he pay. 5 year old Johnny rocks up to the York Barbican Theatre and says, "I'd like to pay for my ticket please, and my carer (mother) would like a free ticket because I can't go on my own I'm only 5". Will the Barbican Theatre agree to this? Because if not, little Johnny is being victimised as a child. Just one of the many ways the UKs equality and diversity laws are a load of bollocks. Taken literally your point seems valid but what is the likelyhood of little Johnny having interest in such a performance without the input of his parent/carer? There is also the world of difference between the legal responsibilty of a parent/guardian to that of a disability carer IMO. I have some recent experience here in that 2 weeks ago my 9 year little Johnny required a full price(£72) ticket to see Warhorse at the New London theatre Drury Lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 SCB kids go to speedway either because they want to go, or their parents take them because they haven't got a babysitter. The amount of kids kicking a football at the EOES suggests its the 2nd reason. The point you are missing, is that the disabled person has to pay for the carer which will result in them not going as they can't afford it.Trying to justify your point by asking if a child should go on their own is a very poor argument.The majority of carers go to various events for the person they are looking after, not for personal gain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) SCB kids go to speedway either because they want to go, or their parents take them because they haven't got a babysitter. The amount of kids kicking a football at the EOES suggests its the 2nd reason. The point you are missing, is that the disabled person has to pay for the carer which will result in them not going as they can't afford it.Trying to justify your point by asking if a child should go on their own is a very poor argument.The majority of carers go to various events for the person they are looking after, not for personal gain. pointless really, scb knows full well what we are saying but tends to post to be controversial .... Just like his opinions in other threads about pensioners etc..... At the end of the day... Why should someone disabled pay nearly double to watch speedway or anything else. Edited February 9, 2014 by Arson fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Been the father of a severely autistic with severe learning difficulties of a son who is on the the highest disability components, the one thing that my son does have is a pass to use on public transport throughout the county that enables him and his carer to travel free. The reason he gets this is because he needs someone to care for him at all times, and would be a danger to himself or others if out on his own. As far as I am aware this a National scheme (but don't quote me on that), so surely this are the types of disabled people that should qualify for their carer to enter for free, because they are unable to go without the assistance of a carer. I disappointed to hear comments to suggest that maybe disabled people been used by carers to get in somewhere for free deeply crass and offensive, the vast majority of carers are family members and I think you would find that 99.9% would not or would not be allow the people that they are caring for to be exploited into doing something that they were not wanting to do. Carers save this country millions of pounds in tax payers money looking after their disabled relatives, so why not give them a bit of a discount. And before any asks my disabled son does not have the slightest interest in speedway, is never likely to as well and while ever he is of that opinion he never will. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 But if psrents take a child, they, not the child, are likely picking up the bill. With a disabled person, it is likely thst they and not the carer have to pick up the bill. That's a fundamental difference imho. I dont think that clubs should HAVE to offer carers or disabled people concession rate s. But I think it is morally the right thing to do. MORALITY isn't big in Speedway. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Been the father of a severely autistic with severe learning difficulties of a son who is on the the highest disability components, the one thing that my son does have is a pass to use on public transport throughout the county that enables him and his carer to travel free. The reason he gets this is because he needs someone to care for him at all times, and would be a danger to himself or others if out on his own. As far as I am aware this a National scheme (but don't quote me on that), so surely this are the types of disabled people that should qualify for their carer to enter for free, because they are unable to go without the assistance of a carer. Which is only right. I often see references to registered carers, in 20+ years of caring I've never found this mystical register unless they mean someone who gets a carers allowance (I don't) I disappointed to hear comments to suggest that maybe disabled people been used by carers to get in somewhere for free deeply crass and offensive, the vast majority of carers are family members and I think you would find that 99.9% would not or would not be allow the people that they are caring for to be exploited into doing something that they were not wanting to do. Not sure if that was aimed at me, I've not taken offence cos everyone is entitled to their view. I know of one person, who yes does have a disablility but quite happily wanders around town alone most days but when it comes to a Wednesday evening suddenly needs a carer to enable him to attend speedway. Does that person pay - well not when I observed them at the ticket office! There are others. As I said before they do the disabled and genuine carers a great disservice by abusing the system. Carers save this country millions of pounds in tax payers money looking after their disabled relatives, so why not give them a bit of a discount. Quite agree, my only quibble would be it does not necessarily HAVE to be free admission, Each case is different, each track is different. I've no idea how it should be done fairly tho. And before any asks my disabled son does not have the slightest interest in speedway, is never likely to as well and while ever he is of that opinion he never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Which is only right. I often see references to registered carers, in 20+ years of caring I've never found this mystical register unless they mean someone who gets a carers allowance (I don't) Not a lot different to registered disabled, what does that mean? Green cards are long gone. Not sure if that was aimed at me, I've not taken offence cos everyone is entitled to their view. I know of one person, who yes does have a disablility but quite happily wanders around town alone most days but when it comes to a Wednesday evening suddenly needs a carer to enable him to attend speedway. Does that person pay - well not when I observed them at the ticket office! There are others. As I said before they do the disabled and genuine carers a great disservice by abusing the system. What criteria are they using for disabled to allow a carer? Someone will always test the length of a piece of string if allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 What criteria are they using for disabled to allow a carer? Someone will always test the length of a piece of string if allowed. This is the root of the problem isn't it. For example Spin Kings son needs a carer no question, but quite possibly by merely looking at him he would not appear to do so. Someone in a wheelchair on the other hand would probably be deemed to need a carer but I've observed several wheelchair users who quite happily attend speedway alone. Not all disabilities are visible. If the promoter, or their staff, question anyone as to their need for a carer I can just imagine the uproar - headlines in the papers discrimination against the disabled. This is one area where promoters have my sympathy, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. All I will say is well done to those promoters who do care and try to do their utmost to address the issue, whether it by concessions or providing facilites for the disabled. On a footnote and its merely an observation of mine, Lynn has pretty good facilites for the disabled fan and their carers. On looking around tho it seems the majority of wheelchair users do not use the parts of the stadium that have been adapted (when I've been there were 4-5 W/C users on the 3/4 bends where there is no ramp). the reason perhaps is because the section that is ramped (2nd bend) is populated by able bodied people who have a tendency (nah they always ) manage to move in front of the wheelchairs and block the view, despite being asked politely not to. So maybe it takes a bit of effort and thought from ALL of us to make life a bit more comfortable for all fans. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) This is the root of the problem isn't it. For example Spin Kings son needs a carer no question, but quite possibly by merely looking at him he would not appear to do so. Someone in a wheelchair on the other hand would probably be deemed to need a carer but I've observed several wheelchair users who quite happily attend speedway alone. Not all disabilities are visible. If the promoter, or their staff, question anyone as to their need for a carer I can just imagine the uproar - headlines in the papers discrimination against the disabled. This is one area where promoters have my sympathy, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. All I will say is well done to those promoters who do care and try to do their utmost to address the issue, whether it by concessions or providing facilites for the disabled. Not really a problem though is it? From the Posh website: "A person has a "disability" if he/she has a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his/her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. Peterborough United Football Club reserves the right to request "proof of a disability" `Such proof shall include: Receipt of the middle or higher rate of the Disability Living Allowance (mobility or care component). Receipt of either the Severe Disablement Allowance or Attendance Allowance" That's a good point starting for now until PIP is in full swing under the ConDems when anything but the severest disability is a figment of the imagination. Edited February 10, 2014 by Crump99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I thought I might try to cheer this Thread up a bit. http://www.youtube.com/embed/G0PekTUmBdY?feature=player_embedded I thought it was funny anyway...................................... :rofl: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) pointless really, scb knows full well what we are saying but tends to post to be controversial .... Just like his opinions in other threads about pensioners etc..... Again, equality and diversity law says that we should all be treated equal regardless of age. Yet George and Margret get into speedway for less because they're old. You can't force a person to retire due to their age, thats illegal but the same people can get into speedway for less. Age is a one of the protected characteristics, yet promoters charge people of different age a different price. Imagine they took one of the other protected characteristics (religion, disability,gender, race, sexual orientation, pregnancy, gender reassignment or marital status) and let people in for more or less based on one of them characteristics. I'm going to open a speedway club and give anyone with one of them characteristics a 10% reduction for each of the following, being a Catholic, in a wheel chair, male, black, bi-sexual, pregnant, man who was a woman and unmarried. I'd be up in court pretty quickly, so why is it ok to discriminate because you're not an OAP?! Yet you wouldn't get away with charging OAPs more would you? Would you believe I was asked about 3 weeks ago to be on the company I work fors "Equality and diversity" committee? Why do you think that was? I'll go with because Im gay. Yeah, thats equal!! I guess it would make the committee diverse, except it has two other gays guys already!!! Really representative. Edited February 10, 2014 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Again, equality and diversity law says that we should all be treated equal regardless of age. Yet George and Margret get into speedway for less because they're old. You can't force a person to retire due to their age, thats illegal but the same people can get into speedway for less. Age is a one of the protected characteristics, yet promoters charge people of different age a different price. Imagine they took one of the other protected characteristics (religion, disability,gender, race, sexual orientation, pregnancy, gender reassignment or marital status) and let people in for more or less based on one of them characteristics. I'm going to open a speedway club and give anyone with one of them characteristics a 10% reduction for each of the following, being a Catholic, in a wheel chair, male, black, bi-sexual, pregnant, man who was a woman and unmarried. I'd be up in court pretty quickly, so why is it ok to discriminate because you're not an OAP?! Yet you wouldn't get away with charging OAPs more would you? Would you believe I was asked about 3 weeks ago to be on the company I work fors "Equality and diversity" committee? Why do you think that was? I'll go with because Im gay. Yeah, thats equal!! I guess it would make the committee diverse, except it has two other gays guys already!!! Really representative. i couldn't give a monkeys if youre white yellow purple or dark blue with pink spots, I couldn't give a rats arse if you're bent, straight, zig zagged or striped.., I couldn't care a less if you go to church every 3rd Sunday, how many sugars you take or what tog quilt you have in the summer...I'm botherd about looking after, protecting and involving those vulnerable in our society, such as pensioners, disabled and the like.... Bollox to your equality and self righteous selfishness... Look after those that need it, give help and support those less fortunate... Put others before ourselves... Is it too much to ask??... Is it too much to drag ourselves away from literal thinking in this day and age?? Surely not??.... Maybe I'm just different to you? Is this really about equality or is it about you feeling hard done too? Because you're treat different by someone paying a few quid less?? Sorry state of affairs if so. We should be embracing the vulnerable and needy in society not adopting the I'm alright jack, youre not, look at me on my pedestal bollox. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pedaler Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Will BSkyB be offering discounted subscriptions for their SkySports packages that include speedway for the next 5 years to the elderly, disabled, disadvantaged or vulnerable? It seems from reading their web site that their pricing policy is somewhat different to the York Barbican Theatre. Is anyone going to criticise them for the morality of their position on the matter? As for the matter of free travel on buses, that's a matter of Government policy, paid for out of taxation, because they think that getting around is one of life's essentials. Speedway isn't one of life's essentials, it's a choice that the individual makes. It's very sad if the price of admission stops people from going as often as they would like, however it's also very sad for the people who work night shifts that they can't go either. Whilst arguing vociferously over who the compassion king is on here amongst people who can't do much to change the situation, has anyone written to Len Silver, Matt Ford, Jon Cook, Terry Russell, Alex Harkess, Alan Philips, David Gordon, etc etc, asking them to dig deeper into their pockets to subsidise the disadvantaged more...because they can afford it, can't they? Speedway is flush with cash, just waiting to be spent on spectators subsidies, isn't it? On another thread people are arguing that speedway is only worth a tenner, and that's for the able bodied adults. God knows where the clubs that have a 40%-50% aged and infirm supporter base will get their income from if everyone and their carers are supposed to get in on free or discounted admissions below that £10 mark. I'd love to know how some fans think that speedway will ever be made to pay with these ideas. Sad fact of life is that in these harsh times, it's not just the disadvantaged that can't afford everything that they want, but those who are trying to make a business out of speedway can't afford to hand out the subsidies that maybe in an ideal world they would want to. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Been the father of a severely autistic with severe learning difficulties of a son who is on the the highest disability components, the one thing that my son does have is a pass to use on public transport throughout the county that enables him and his carer to travel free. The reason he gets this is because he needs someone to care for him at all times, and would be a danger to himself or others if out on his own. As far as I am aware this a National scheme (but don't quote me on that), so surely this are the types of disabled people that should qualify for their carer to enter for free, because they are unable to go without the assistance of a carer. I disappointed to hear comments to suggest that maybe disabled people been used by carers to get in somewhere for free deeply crass and offensive, the vast majority of carers are family members and I think you would find that 99.9% would not or would not be allow the people that they are caring for to be exploited into doing something that they were not wanting to do. Carers save this country millions of pounds in tax payers money looking after their disabled relatives, so why not give them a bit of a discount. And before any asks my disabled son does not have the slightest interest in speedway, is never likely to as well and while ever he is of that opinion he never will. totally agree, its not as though speedway grounds are choc a bloc, yet people wanna deprive these people. what a society this is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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