arthur cross Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) http://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/sport/10985194.SPEEDWAY__Terry_Russell_sets_up_live_streaming_link_with_At_The_Races/?ref=var_0 Russell insists that all Elite (10) and Premier (13) league clubs will benefit eventually from the new revenue stream although at the moment, he says no money is guaranteed. Russell told the Standard: I have been working hard on this project with At The Races, who are partly-owned by Sky, for more than a year. In the first season it will be Bet To Watch'. Speedway fans will need to place a bet in order to gain access to the live streaming of races they are interested in. But in 2015 we could see speedway action live every night in betting shops and there are 10,000 of those around the country. Russell envisages the shows being up and running when the two leagues begin at the end of March. With almost 650 fixtures to choose from, in addition to those covered by Sky, there should be regular opportunities for Swindons speedway fans to watch and punt on their heroes. One meeting a night will be featured. The line-ups of teams are known two days in advance which gives the bookies ample time to set up their odds, and the results will be supplied by the Press Association, said Russell. I cant say betting is something that interests me personally. I can spend a week in Las Vegas without betting a dollar. But this is a great opportunity for speedway to monetise and raise its profile. It should prove a huge boost to awareness of the sport." Matthew Imi, chief executive of At The Races, said: "There is a lot of depth to the sport (speedway), performance data, tactics and scoring systems that we think all serve to make it an exciting prospect as a betting product. "Through our Sport Mediastream division we look forward to developing this and other opportunities directly with our many bookmaker partners." The only thing not yet clear is whether the coverage will appear on the 'At The Races' channels on Sky and/or Virgin?? I am pretty certain that there is zero chance of it appearing on those channels. This will be more geared towards betting sites whom At the Races will provide the stream too. They are usually viewed in a smallish box in a corner of the screen, with the rest of the screen consisting of the various live odds and bets available. You will firstly need to be a member of that site and secondly it seems have placed an active bet on the event to view it. There will likely be a minimum bet amount too I would expect. You can view live events across a number of sports in this way already on many bookmakers sites, although in most cases you don't need to have actually placed a bet to see it. I agree with BWitcher that you're unlikely to see speedway in among the evening racing on the main At The Races channel on the Sky/Virgin platforms as ATR has long had enough American tracks (plus the top Canadian track Woodbine) to complement its UK/Irish floodlit or spring/summer-daylit evening action ... instead, ATR will offer its betting partners the option of the speedway coverage for them to stream on their individual websites. But this looks to me like a deal that far more benefits ATR than British speedway, especially given Terry Russell's admittance that no revenue is initially guaranteed for the Elite/Premier clubs whose meetings will sometimes be streamed ... ATR simply wants cheap access through its Sport Mediastream division to different sporting action that it can then offer to its betting partners but whether that will generate worthwhile income for British speedway is much harder to prove, Not for the first time, British speedway is chasing betting-related income that I simply doubt exists on anything like the scale it's hoping for. Remember the green helmet colour (instead of white) was introduced about a decade ago to match all 4 speedway riders' helmets to the colour buttons of a Sky remote-control which could then be used to create a split-screen on your tv between the live action and a range of betting options. It was a great idea in theory ... but in practice, the delays transferring from full-screen action to split-screen action-&-odds infuriated punters (regardless of which sport they wanted to bet on) who soon abandoned betting via their tv-screen in favour of keeping that tv-screen fully devoted to the action while also using a laptop (and now often these days, a tablet or mobile) fully devoted to their betting, thus rendering the switch to a green helmet pointless. It's all very well saying that the speedway line-ups will be known two days in advance to help punters work out their bets ... yes, that's the case in terms of teams declaring their 1-to-7 for each meeting but we all know there are plenty of occasions when a crash from the previous night affect those pre-declared line-ups ... what's more, once the meeting's underway, heat line-ups can be changed at just a couple of minutes' notice, radically altering any previously-advertised odds for that race if a hot reserve comes in for a struggling middle-order rider ... and I defy anyone to accurately explain the effect of rider-replacement on betting activity !! In comparison, any reserves coming into Irish horse racing or British greyhound racing are confirmed at the start of a meeting so (unless they affect the first race on the card) those alterations are always available to the bookies and their punters with much more notice than news of a speedway change just as the referee fires the 2-minute warning. But the 2 biggest concerns I'd have are as follows ... firstly, speedway is way down the list of the most profitable sports for bookmakers because most of the betting it generates comes from "shrewd money" (keen followers of it) rather than "mug money" (the general public just wanting the buzz of having a bet to add to their enjoyment of something they'd be watching anyway) ... hence if Terry Russell's right about no betting-revenue for speedway being guaranteed from this project, good luck to the clubs waiting for their share of any handsome profits from the bookies. And secondly, potentially disastrously for some clubs whose attendances are already borderline, it's unlikely these betting websites will require you to bet more than £5 at a time to view the live action (and as Grand Central has pointed out, it can be as little as 50p for other sports). I appreciate some folk may not want to attach any of their bank cards to an account on a betting website for fear of affecting their credit rating for their everyday life ... but if you're ok about that dilemma, picture the scene on a drizzly day a couple of hours before your team's home meeting is due to start and you know it's being live-streamed. Until now, you've had to gamble on whether it's worth any transport/parking costs plus the admission fee against the risk of a wasted journey or an abandoned/farcical meeting ... now, incredibly, a gambling company will let you avoid all the stress of that previous gamble for just a few quid (maybe as little as 50p) so that's ridiculously cheap insurance against the dodgy weather compared to those transport/parking/admission costs !! Unless you can't help betting badly on every race, you end up spending a lot less than you would've done by going to the track while ATR and its betting partners have the chance to share their costs/profits of any betting money you've lost before finally sending a slice of any of their profits towards British speedway. Can you see that slice being enough compensation for the clubs to set against the turnstile-income they've lost from those who've now been given such a cheap and easy alternative to setting-off for a meeting amid dodgy weather ? !! - - - - - - - - - - Since I started writing this post, Reliant Robin has posted that speedway is only "playing catch up with other sports" in terms of streaming its live action ... to a large degree that's correct but, crucially, very few of those other sports (maybe only cricket) are quite as weather-dependent as speedway and therefore at such serious risk from its stadium-spectators making a late decision not to turn up when conditions are bad. It's also the case that most live-streaming on betting websites (or live-pictures in betting shops) is either foreign action (to allow almost 24/7 betting to suit punters' own spare time) whose crowds we wouldn't be joining anyway or domestic action that's long since stopped relying on needing live-spectator income because it gets a guaranteed fee from the bookies (like mundane midweek horse-racing and all greyhound action). But British speedway appears happy to chase unguaranteed betting-revenue while agreeing to give its more weather-fickle supporters a staggeringly easy incentive to stay at home ... even by its usual standards, this looks to me to be a crazily stupid route to take. Edited February 4, 2014 by arthur cross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josietoms Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 It won't be 50p for the whole meeting to be streamed. 50p per heat. Still cheaper then attending the meeting I know. On betfair exchange it's £2 bet to watch the stream of that race on the iPhone app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) It won't be 50p for the whole meeting to be streamed. 50p per heat. Still cheaper then attending the meeting I know. On betfair exchange it's £2 bet to watch the stream of that race on the iPhone app. Yes, at 50p per heat as a minimum bet would be the sort of thing I would expect. But I would not be planning on spending 15x50p. The idea would be to WIN at least some of them! Arthur Cross makes some excellent points, as always. If it really is the case that this would operate WITHOUT Speedway getting ANY income then this would be madness. If all goes well I'll spend evenings at home idly putting the odd fiver on the right races at meetings all over the country. It will be great, if it works. . Edited February 4, 2014 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Imagine if somebody had a bet on a rain off and a water pipe burst under the track. Or has that already been done Really i must have missed it. Was it discussed on this forum? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) It won't be 50p for the whole meeting to be streamed. 50p per heat. Still cheaper then attending the meeting I know. On betfair exchange it's £2 bet to watch the stream of that race on the iPhone app. But the vast majority of horse racing or greyhound bets refer to just a single race within a longer meeting (and very few of them cover the entire meeting) so it's easier to charge punters per streamed-race ... surely it would be different for speedway where there's more likelihood of punters wanting to place a bet on a team to win the meeting that would then entitle them to watch all 15 heats for the price of their single bet because (when they're placing that bet) each of those 15 races could have an impact on their bet. Edited February 4, 2014 by arthur cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) I would imagine that after watching one meeting with it's interminable delays and dragging back the riders because one of them's nose twitched at the start the punter audience will go back to the more fun sight of watching dogs chase a stuffed rabbitt. There are probably more people waiting to bet on whether the next dove the Pope releases has a more than 50/50 chance of making it past the adjacent window. It's another rainbow speedway is chasing that will lead nowhere and achieve nothing for the sport. Edited February 4, 2014 by pandorum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) This will be more geared towards betting sites whom At the Races will provide the stream too. They are usually viewed in a smallish box in a corner of the screen, with the rest of the screen consisting of the various live odds and bets available. You will firstly need to be a member of that site and secondly it seems have placed an active bet on the event to view it. There will likely be a minimum bet amount too I would expect. You can view live events across a number of sports in this way already on many bookmakers sites, although in most cases you don't need to have actually placed a bet to see it. I'm surprised at mention of having to either bet or pay to see individual horse races, i never knew that was the case. I presumed it would be as with streaming football on sites such as William Hill where you deposit £5 into your account and that's it you get to see hundreds of top class football matches round the clock. Without placing a bet i've seen a wealth of football including some superb World Cup qualifying games in front of 100,000 spectators at some of the games in Mexico and South America etc. All very entertaining cut-throat stuff. Any sports betting site i've been on the "smallish box in the corner of the screen" can be enlarged by clicking on the relevant icon to do so. You can view it in it's own window and minimize or even close the page with the odds on and the stream carries on playing. I was away from the sport for well over a decade and whilst clearly betting has returned to an extent including betting on heats, wasn't there a massive scandal when betting was first introduced and corruption was proven to have taken place and therefore the gambling abandoned? I'm sure i remember when i was not following speedway, after Hyde Road closed down, headlines in a national daily referring to the sport going through tough times with the crooked betting and at the same time a rider or riders? smuggling drugs around Europe and also a rider suicide (or the Kenny Carter murder and suicide?). Edited February 5, 2014 by manchesterpaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Betting has been available on speedway your correct, only on sky live meetings could u bet on the outcome of heats tho. All other times it's been which team to win. Fine if it stays like that but I very much doubt so. Bookies will want to open as many markets as they can to gain maximum profit. That's where the problem will come from. We are all led to believe that it's hard to make any money as a speedway rider lol so if let's say a lower averaged rider is to be offered 10k to lose all his races by a professional gambling unit do u honestly feel he won't accept it. It would be all to easy to say yes. One engine failure two falls and a rubbish gate. 10k thank u very much. Professional gambling unit 100k.Can u name a bookie that would take a 10k bet on speedway? Or even a grand? The impression ivr got from the betting thread is that a tenner is about the most u can get accepted as a bet on the el.I think your post is alarmist in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Can u name a bookie that would take a 10k bet on speedway? Or even a grand? The impression ivr got from the betting thread is that a tenner is about the most u can get accepted as a bet on the el. i'd like to get any sort off bet on , online betting on speedway is a total waste off time and effort , if a meetings on sky I can get a decent bet on if I walk up my local laddies but there nowhere near the best price on anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josietoms Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Can u name a bookie that would take a 10k bet on speedway? Or even a grand? The impression ivr got from the betting thread is that a tenner is about the most u can get accepted as a bet on the el. I think your post is alarmist in the extreme. It's the betting abroad where the corruption starts and that's where u will be able to place a large bet. If betfair take up the steaming of the heats and betting you would be able to bet more then £10 and more of a concern you could lay a rider not to win. P.s skybet a few years ago took a £100 bet from myself and I'm sure sholver one year (when Poole were sitting bottom) placed a bet more then a £10 on them to win in a well known betting shop. Edited February 5, 2014 by josietoms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 One thing that you can bet on is, Matt Ford is to blame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Aside from the betting shop streaming, I'm still hopeful that ATR will show meetings on their Sky/Virgin channel - not live, but in the same way that they 'review' some horse/dog racing in between their live coverage from UK/America/Canada/Australia!! They do have a channel to fill 24/7! For those that missed the original press release: http://myemail.const...aid=U9c-ysPz1Cw Edited February 5, 2014 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim the whipper Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 The Elite league and premier league wont see any financial benefit but one thing for sure, Gospeed will ,, you can bet on that !! not sure it would be very good to watch either . the only reason most people would be watching would be to see the result . so more than likely a single camera operation with little or no production value , it would not be like watching a sky sports match . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reliant Robin Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 The Elite league and premier league wont see any financial benefit but one thing for sure, Gospeed will ,, you can bet on that !! not sure it would be very good to watch either . the only reason most people would be watching would be to see the result . so more than likely a single camera operation with little or no production value , it would not be like watching a sky sports match . I'll say it again, if Go Speed see financial benefit from this, as you have said, then the Elite & Premier League will have also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's the betting abroad where the corruption starts and that's where u will be able to place a large bet. If betfair take up the steaming of the heats and betting you would be able to bet more then £10 and more of a concern you could lay a rider not to win. P.s skybet a few years ago took a £100 bet from myself and I'm sure sholver one year (when Poole were sitting bottom) placed a bet more then a £10 on them to win in a well known betting shop. You must be expecting 'Red Hot' Racing next Season? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's the betting abroad where the corruption starts and that's where u will be able to place a large bet. If betfair take up the steaming of the heats and betting you would be able to bet more then £10 and more of a concern you could lay a rider not to win. P.s skybet a few years ago took a £100 bet from myself and I'm sure sholver one year (when Poole were sitting bottom) placed a bet more then a £10 on them to win in a well known betting shop. I placed a £250 bet at 100/1 a few years ago on Poole winning the league from bottom. If it had been successful I would have won £25,250. But the BSPA moved the goalposts from 6 to 4 for the playoffs, ending any chance. I got a refund as the rules had been changed after the bet was placed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have reservations about the sport being used for betting purposes in this way. There was reason why betting was always prohibited and I think those reasons are probably even more relevant in this day and age. We have seen from the spot betting scandals in Cricket and also some of the ongoing investigations in Football that the tentacles of corruption can reach deeply into a sport and I suspect a 4 runner race in a sport which is not awash with money would be vulnerable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I've places bets of £200+ before now. Doesn't last long though, once you start winning the bookies don't want to know and limit you to pointless amounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagrag Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I still have large doubts on this project due to the logistics of broadcasting pictures from some of the tracks but also think it is open to abuse as in my experience of the technology they are planning to use there could be 60-90 sec delays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I still have large doubts on this project due to the logistics of broadcasting pictures from some of the tracks but also think it is open to abuse as in my experience of the technology they are planning to use there could be 60-90 sec delays If Newman and Redford became aware of this imagine the chaos they could cause. But sadly it's just speedway chasing another pipedream. The idea that the betting public will be gripped by speedway 6 days a week is to daft to laugh at. Might be a fad for a week but thats about it's lifespan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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