waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 andy smith don't feature much in listAlong with mort my favourite british rider of all time. But not close to the top dozen britss of all time or even the modern era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Dlete duplicate But he never dominated even in the test matches v USA he was not always great, Morton,Lee( 82 his worst season) even PC past his best could still beat him i never ever see Carter go to King,s Lynn and beat Lee over a three race series.PC could and did and that was hard to do at Lynn, because he had his period where he was the best Brit full stop and it took even Lee from 76 onwards to even challenge him.Carter never had a spell where he was in and out Britains no 1 he was on par certainly in all of his World Final appearances i never believed he could win it mix it yes and he did and was unlucky but so have endless other riders.Lee,Sigalos,Sanders,S.Moran for me were the only riders who were capable of upstaging Nielsen and Gundersen in that spell.Who topped englands test averages in 82, scoring 27 points more than any other englishman v usa (and more than penhall or sigalos) and topping the scoring v denmsrk despite missing one of the three meetings? Who scored a maximum in the wtc as england got eliminated? Who finished on the podium of every world final quslifying round? Who topped the bl averages that season with over 11, a mark neither lee mort s moran sigalos or sanders ever achieved? Who won the blrc with a maximum in 82, again a feat none of those u name acieved? Ill give u a clue - its a rider who in six league and cup clashes that season was not beaten once by pc.I respect your opinion sid, but to suggest that carter was not the best brit by a mile in 1982 is ludicrous. Edited February 4, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Along with mort my favourite british rider of all time. But not close to the top dozen britss of all time or even the modern era. where in my line did I say andy smith was one of the best??..with those british titles only bettered by a tiny minority, just thought hes worth a SUGGESTION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 where in my line did I say andy smith was one of the best??..with those british titles only bettered by a tiny minority, just thought hes worth a SUGGESTIONYou observed that he is not included in peoples lists of top 12 brits. I explsined why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 im just surprised a triple british champ is not mentioned..that was all....after all, he did compete in the times when the british title wasn't swamped with lower lge riders 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 true, but it was also well below the standard of the 70s and 80s. i'd imagine he will be regarded alongside the likes of Doncaster, Harris and Nicholls, rather than your Morts, Louis or Simmons, let alone the PCs, Lee etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 regarded alongside nicholls??? the 7x record winner? that's a compliment for him..but yes. understand your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Jason bunyan has the record for nz titles, but I have some doubts as to whether he is the best kiwi of all time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Dlete duplicateWho topped englands test averages in 82, scoring 27 points more than any other englishman v usa (and more than penhall or sigalos) and topping the scoring v denmsrk despite missing one of the three meetings? Who scored a maximum in the wtc as england got eliminated? Who finished on the podium of every world final quslifying round? Who topped the bl averages that season with over 11, a mark neither lee mort s moran sigalos or sanders ever achieved? Who won the blrc with a maximum in 82, again a feat none of those u name acieved? Ill give u a clue - its a rider who in six league and cup clashes that season was not beaten once by pc. I respect your opinion sid, but to suggest that carter was not the best brit by a mile in 1982 is ludicrous. The best up there with a few others over a period 82 to 85 also in the tests he was not all that great bang average at Wimbledon, and at Ipswich as i recall.Carter being amongst Lee,Morton, he was there no doubt but it was different to an era when we had Betts,Boocock bros , Louis,Ashby,Louis, Wilson, Simmons all outstanding.PETER COLLINS is the only Englishmen that for me was top dog for a period and by some way Carter comes knowhere near that. Edited February 4, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 The best up there with a few others over a period 82 to 85 also in the tests he was not all that great bang average at Wimbledon, and at Ipswich as i recall.Carter being amongst Lee,Morton, he was there no doubt but it was different to an era when we had Betts,Boocock bros , Louis,Ashby,Louis, Simmons all outstanding.PETER COLLINS is the only Englishmen that for me was top dog for a period and by some way Carter comes knowhere near that.Agree 100% that carter is a notch down from the all time great british riders such as peter collins and lee.However I certainly think he ranks in the same category as the likes of Simmons Louis morton etc - great British riders, but not all time greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I picked him 4 hours before your post. I was a regular at Halifax during his era and he was awesome round there. Never liked the bloke and was shocked by what he did but a hell of a rider. His bust ups with Penhall were great to watch. I did not pick Tai as he has just started and will likely emerge as a great Brit. His dad certainly wasa great rider to watch so he comes from good stock I saw the beginnings of his career too, at Newcastle, and you could see the potential of being a class act even then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Agree 100% that carter is a notch down from the all time great british riders such as peter collins and lee. However I certainly think he ranks in the same category as the likes of Simmons Louis morton etc - great British riders, but not all time greats. I can't dispute what you said about 82 eaces1" he did have a fine season i also thought he rode to a very high level in 83.My point i was trying to make really was that in my lifetime PC was the only undisputed Brit at one given time.Even me with my bias head on would admit i don't even think Lee ever was he had Jessup as a rival for a while and Mort and Carter that's what I meant really.Simmons at his true best and he was very good vintage at Poole and Lee really were the only two who really pushed PC at his peak.Maybe Lee could on been on par in 79, 77 he was good also, but Collins then was at his peak and riding like he could win two or three world titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 in there peak the Collins clan of neil, phil, les and pc would top our crop put together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) in there peak the Collins clan of neil, phil, les and pc would top our crop put together! I enjoyed watching everyone of them ride, great value Phil at times exceptional went when he was awesome in the 83 overseas final at Hyde Rd.Peter a legend and Les also was a terrific rider even when he rode PL i loved watching Les ride even in his later years great value a true racer Neil to. Edited February 4, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishRoundabout Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I picked him 4 hours before your post. I was a regular at Halifax during his era and he was awesome round there. Never liked the bloke and was shocked by what he did but a hell of a rider. His bust ups with Penhall were great to watch. I did not pick Tai as he has just started and will likely emerge as a great Brit. His dad certainly wasa great rider to watch so he comes from good stock How fortunate you were pandorum to watch speedway at the Shay. I visited two or three times. Awesome track and totally unique in shape/banking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 My top 12 from riders ive seen from 80 onwards when i started watching the sport. Peter Collins Morton Lee Carter Wigg Tatum Loram John Louis Jessup Nicholls Havelock Cox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 My top 12 from riders ive seen from 80 onwards when i started watching the sport. Peter Collins Morton Lee Carter Wigg Tatum Loram John Louis Jessup Nicholls Havelock Cox Only one there I would query is cox. Surely tai, or even the likes of Doncaster, cross les and phil collins, harris etc. Rank ahead of him? I understand if he's included due to being a personsl favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Dullicate post Edited February 6, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Only one there I would query is cox. Surely tai, or even the likes of Doncaster, cross les and phil collins, harris etc. Rank ahead of him? I understand if he's included due to being a personsl favourite. Donkey maybe. Cross for me was a tad below top class same as Phil Collins. Harris wouldnt come close. I included Cox because i grew up originally watching at Rye House and followed his career when he was doubling up with Hackney so yes a poss.ible personal favourite. On achievements he was probbably behind the guys you mentioned just he was my first real speedway hero lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Only one there I would query is cox. Surely tai, or even the likes of Doncaster, cross les and phil collins, harris etc. Rank ahead of him? I understand if he's included due to being a personsl favourite. Les Collins?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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