Speedway Star Toothless Pussycat

[Barrycuda]

Read this if you want to know about one of finals

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=22590

 

Started by Ian 2005 on this forum

 

I remember it being in the Sunday Newspaper and have still got the paper in question somewhere.

[Vince]

I went to a few Wembley World Finals, fantastic events, great atmosphere and generally poor racing is the way I remember them. Bad luck with your programmed gates was enough to prevent you being World Champion, not now!

 

In my opinion there is no way in the world that Speedway was more cut throat in the 60's and 70's than it is now. Riders these days ride over their limits far more often and are harder on each other than they ever were in the 'good old days' as far as I am concerned.

 

Lots of things wrong with modern Speedway but the commitment and ability of riders is none of them.

[Humphrey Appleby]

 

Which one?

 

1994 in Vojens?

1993 in Pocking?

 

How about the last one in England, 1990 at Bradford?

 

The World Final was dying, crowds were tumbling. You have to go a long way back to get to crowds being as big as Cardiff.

 

Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well.

 

Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well.

 

I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals.

 

Which one?

 

1994 in Vojens?

1993 in Pocking?

 

How about the last one in England, 1990 at Bradford?

 

The World Final was dying, crowds were tumbling. You have to go a long way back to get to crowds being as big as Cardiff.

 

Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well.

 

Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well.

 

I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals.

If the SGP's are only netting BSI £1.5m a year profit that is poor. Their business director should be fired but to the general public that seems to be a reasonable amount

 

A 15% return is not terrible, bearing in mind that some of the expenses are with other companies in the IMG group. You can also consider at least half of the amount going to the FIM to be 'profit' as well.

 

2.5 million is quite small beer by the standards of some sports, but it's 2 million quid that's apparently not going into the sport.

[waiheke1]

Of course if the british gp was run by say the bspa, there is no guarantee the profits would go back into the sport either...

[BWitcher]

 

Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well.

 

Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well.

 

I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals.

 

Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well.

 

Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well.

 

I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals.

 

A 15% return is not terrible, bearing in mind that some of the expenses are with other companies in the IMG group. You can also consider at least half of the amount going to the FIM to be 'profit' as well.

 

2.5 million is quite small beer by the standards of some sports, but it's 2 million quid that's apparently not going into the sport.

 

Cut through your waffle and we get to the real only comparable point.

 

A ONE-OFF World Final, in a time where there were far more paying customers attending speedway across the UK attracted 24,000 in the UK. Nowhere near the level that attend Cardiff. That was the debate in question, not other GP's in remote countries.

[SteveLyric2]

Ah but do you think the 'Speedway Star is a Toothless Pussycat'??!!

[PHILIPRISING]

AND, as it happens, the last attendance at Odsal for a World Final was in fact less than 20,000.

 

Wembley World Final attendances were invariably put at 100,000 because that was the stadium's alleged capacity and it sounded good but few if any actually achieved that level and the one in 1981 was way below that. Different era, of course, and as BWitcher so rightly points out the number of people regularly attending speedway in the UK 30 years ago was significantly higher than today.

 

Without the GPs and Cardiff what major World Championship event do people think would take place in Britain now? Even if there was a one-off World Final the likelihood of it being staged here in anything more than every five or six years would be minimal.

[oldace]

AND, as it happens, the last attendance at Odsal for a World Final was in fact less than 20,000.

 

Wembley World Final attendances were invariably put at 100,000 because that was the stadium's alleged capacity and it sounded good but few if any actually achieved that level and the one in 1981 was way below that. Different era, of course, and as BWitcher so rightly points out the number of people regularly attending speedway in the UK 30 years ago was significantly higher than today.

 

Without the GPs and Cardiff what major World Championship event do people think would take place in Britain now? Even if there was a one-off World Final the likelihood of it being staged here in anything more than every five or six years would be minimal.

 

 

Correct. 1981 was 72,000 in reality despite the oft quoted 92,000. As far as I recall only 3 Wembley finals were ever sell outs, 1978 was one.

 

Vince is quite right in that generally racing in world finals was poor, generally after 8 heats at least half the field couldn't win and by the interval it was usually down to 3 or 4 possible winners meaning little to race for for the others. Likewise qualifiers rarely produced good racing because riders were not trying to win, merely be in the top 11 (of some events) so a safe second or even third was usually OK.

 

As a percentage of the speedway watching population it is a fact that Cardiff surpasses any world final in the history of the sport. Yes some Wembley finals had more than double but it was in a time when probably 5 or 6 (or more) times more people regularly attended the sport

[Humphrey Appleby]

 

Cut through your waffle and we get to the real only comparable point.

 

A ONE-OFF World Final, in a time where there were far more paying customers attending speedway across the UK attracted 24,000 in the UK. Nowhere near the level that attend Cardiff. That was the debate in question, not other GP's in remote countries.

And cut through your waffle and the point was that if Cardiff had been available for a a World Final then attendances may have been considerably more than for Bradford.

 

Bradford was capacity limited and not a particularly attractive venue for the casual fan.

[BWitcher]

And cut through your waffle and the point was that if Cardiff had been available for a a World Final then attendances may have been considerably more than for Bradford.

 

Bradford was capacity limited and not a particularly attractive venue for the casual fan.

 

Bradford was nowhere near a sell-out so capacity has nothing to do with it. As has been pointed out, the attendance was less than 20,000.

 

Nor was the attendance at Bradford in 1990 anywhere close to the attendance in 1985 at Bradford also. I was at both.

 

Try and twist it as much as you like, the original point was a claim was made that the old World Finals achieved bigger crowds than Cardiff does. It's been pointed out that you have to go back quite a way to find one that did achieve a bigger crowd and there is only you who is trying to argue the point..... and failing to do so. We're not dealing with ifs, buts and maybes, we're dealing with reality. The best estimate given is 1982 for the last World Final to surpass a Cardiff crowd.

Edited February 4, 2014 by BWitcher

[oldace]

 

Bradford was nowhere near a sell-out so capacity has nothing to do with it. As has been pointed out, the attendance was less than 20,000.

 

Nor was the attendance at Bradford in 1990 anywhere close to the attendance in 1985 at Bradford also. I was at both.

 

Try and twist it as much as you like, the original point was a claim was made that the old World Finals achieved bigger crowds than Cardiff does. It's been pointed out that you have to go back quite a way to find one that did achieve a bigger crowd and there is only you who is trying to argue the point..... and failing to do so. We're not dealing with ifs, buts and maybes, we're dealing with reality. The best estimate given is 1982 for the last World Final to surpass a Cardiff crowd.

 

 

Wouldn't swear to it but i am pretty sure LA didn't get much over 35,000 and a lot of them were just freebies given away at the last minute so as not to make the venue seem deserted. At a guess I would say 1986 in Katowice was 60,000 plus (It is just a guess though) so probably that would be the last time a one off was anywhere near Cardiff

Edited February 4, 2014 by Oldace

[Humphrey Appleby]

Try and twist it as much as you like, the original point was a claim was made that the old World Finals achieved bigger crowds than Cardiff does. It's been pointed out that you have to go back quite a way to find one that did achieve a bigger crowd and there is only you who is trying to argue the point..... and failing to do so. We're not dealing with ifs, buts and maybes, we're dealing with reality. The best estimate given is 1982 for the last World Final to surpass a Cardiff crowd.

Not really. The Munich World Final the year before Bradford would have had a higher attendance than Cardiff. Demonstrating that if held a World Final in an attractive place rather than a field, then people would come.

[cityrebel]

Munich must go down as one of the worst tracks of all time. It looked even narrower than somerton park, although it was a great stadium with excellent views of the 'racing'!

[BWitcher]

Not really. The Munich World Final the year before Bradford would have had a higher attendance than Cardiff. Demonstrating that if held a World Final in an attractive place rather than a field, then people would come.

 

So you've found one World Final, reported crowd of 41,000 which is there or thereabouts with what Cardiff gets. Of course that figure may well be exaggerated, as most of the Wembley attendances were.

 

As has been stated, there were a lot more speedway fans attending the sport in 1989 than there are today, so in comparison, not a great turnout.

Munich must go down as one of the worst tracks of all time. It looked even narrower than somerton park, although it was a great stadium with excellent views of the 'racing'!

 

Not a great lineup either..

[foamfence]

Bradford was nowhere near a sell-out so capacity has nothing to do with it. As has been pointed out, the attendance was less than 20,000.

 

Nor was the attendance at Bradford in 1990 anywhere close to the attendance in 1985 at Bradford also. I was at both.

 

Try and twist it as much as you like, the original point was a claim was made that the old World Finals achieved bigger crowds than Cardiff does. It's been pointed out that you have to go back quite a way to find one that did achieve a bigger crowd and there is only you who is trying to argue the point..... and failing to do so. We're not dealing with ifs, buts and maybes, we're dealing with reality. The best estimate given is 1982 for the last World Final to surpass a Cardiff crowd.

The official attendance figures might not be too accurate. I saw people paying by cash at certain gates, they were given tickets that weren't the same as the pre-ordered tickets. So official attendance figures and receipts might not tell the true picture.

[PHILIPRISING]

Not really. The Munich World Final the year before Bradford would have had a higher attendance than Cardiff. Demonstrating that if held a World Final in an attractive place rather than a field, then people would come.

YOU obviously weren't there!

 

The official attendance figures might not be too accurate. I saw people paying by cash at certain gates, they were given tickets that weren't the same as the pre-ordered tickets. So official attendance figures and receipts might not tell the true picture.

WHERE are you talking about?

[lucifer sam]

Munich must go down as one of the worst tracks of all time. It looked even narrower than somerton park, although it was a great stadium with excellent views of the 'racing'!

 

Heat 20 with Roman Matousek was epic.

 

Otherwise I'm glad Hans had his gating head on that night.

 

And our somewhat cocky but correct "All the rest will be feeling blue, when Hans and Wiggy finish one and two" banner got a mention in the Speedway Star the following week

 

All the best

Rob

Edited February 4, 2014 by lucifer sam

[PHILIPRISING]

FROM memory the official attendance at the LA Colisuem was around 39,000 but there were some hand-outs. Even so, it was a terrific effort given that it finally took place at the same time as the Raiders (NFL) moved into the Coliseum and all the coverage on the sports pages in LA was about them.

 

The promoters (Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Jack Milne and Harro Oxley) staged a spectacular media bash there after practice ... the fully Hollywood monty! Beautifully laid out tables, waiters, the lot. The amount of coverage provided the following day ... almost zilch.

 

Even with Bruce Penhall in attendance and Hollywood bound it was tough to get the media outside Orange County (Costa Mesa) interested. I was in Las Vegas a few days later and read a preview of the World Final which had already taken place. As the person given the task of handling the media coverage it was very frustrating.

[Leicester Lion]

Heat 20 with Roman Matousek was epic.

 

Otherwise I'm glad Hans had his gating head on that night.

 

And our somewhat cocky but correct "All the rest will be feeling blue, when Hans and Wiggy finish one and two" banner got a mention in the Speedway Star the following week

 

All the best

Rob

Matousek realised he could get much more speed by hooking his front wheel over the inside line. None of his opponents sussed it. Had he found it from the start of the meeting, Matousek might have caused an upset.

[Grand Central]

AND, as it happens, the last attendance at Odsal for a World Final was in fact less than 20,000.

 

Now then, Now then.

 

The official figure released by the BSPA at the time was 26,418.

 

Is there a suggestion that a BSPA Press Release may have been inaccurate?

That would be a sensation.

 

.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Grand Central