Which Rider Is On The Best Value Average

[van wolfswinkel]

Klindt and Gustafsson

[Daniel Smith]

Which rider is on the best value average is irrelevant to me. This is a team game and it's about which club has put together the better mix and we won't know that until playoff time.

 

We have the unknown in Robert Lambert. He may go on to average 12.00 but that would be totally pointless if Iversen goes on to average 3. Hypothetical I know.

 

For me, the best value riders will already be the heatleaders. If they can't sustain their averages you just not going to win matches, it's as simple as that

[ColinMills]

peter ljung.....adam ellis....

[INCOGNITO]

It's not rocket science to work out roughly what each rider will have to face in the forthcoming season.

 

RESERVES will have races against each other and also against second strings.

 

SECOND STRINGS will have one ride with each reserve leaving two rides where they will be out with a heat leader

 

HEAT LEADERS will have all their rides against heat leaders or second strings and as the second strings only have two rides with heat leaders then the teams #1 will have all his rides with fellow heat leaders.

 

 

This could mean top riders like Woffinden and Iversen may have nights where they only score six or seven while second strings like Ljung and Gustafsson could be scoring eight or nine and reserves about the same. It may even come down to tactical riding in order to get heat leaders down to second strings by picking up bonus points more often.

 

This will benefit a team when they operate rider replacement as Peter Ljung or Ryan Fisher could move up the order and when they are not available then the old heat leaders like Doyle and Andersen will get extra rides.

[Tsunami]

 

You obviously, have knowledge of the new heat format. Wouldn't it have been nice of the BSPA to enlighten all the speedway supporter and the media, rather than treat us like mushrooms. And you wonder why the sport is nearly dead.............

Totally over the top reaction. Who says he knows the heat formula, have a look at MattK and Incognito's posts.

[BluPanther]

Klindt and Gustafsson

No and Yes imo..

 

peter ljung.....adam ellis....

Yes and NO imo..

[T.N.T.]

This could mean top riders like Woffinden and Iversen may have nights where they only score six or seven while second strings like Ljung and Gustafsson could be scoring eight or nine and reserves about the same. It may even come down to tactical riding in order to get heat leaders down to second strings by picking up bonus points more often.

 

 

 

Which could also mean most of the team are qualified to ride in the nominated heat 15

 

Totally over the top reaction. Who says he knows the heat formula, have a look at MattK and Incognito's posts.

 

 

I don't know the exact format they are going to eventually use but I have devised formats in the past which have been put forward and as previous posts by MattK and Incognito says it is pretty clear roughly how the new format will look and the higher you are in the team, the harder the races will be.

 

There is going to obviously be restrictions on where riders can ride which in my opinion would mean riders should line up in order of averages otherwise Kings Lynn could place Kenneth Bjerre in a position where he rides against reserves and second strings which would not be right and mean an unbalanced night as Porsing or Lambert would then be facing heat leaders more often.

 

On another thread I have posted a format that may be ? lke the format used ..... depending on what gets voted in !!

 

On the plus side this would mean there may be more evenly balanced races with one race being like heat 13 and the next like heat 8 and so on through the race card. On the down side, it may be that second strings or a powerful reserve like Garrity or Kerr could be top scorers from their programmed rides as Wolves v Kings Lynn could see Woffinden v Iversen three times before the final heat.

 

In my opinion moving to TWO reserves from the National League is a mistake and I would have rather seen teams only using ONE draft rider and more places secured in the Premier League for British riders by stopping under performing foreign riders returning on low averages. Why should any PL team want to track a foreign rider on a 3-4 average when there are British riders available to ride at reserve in the lower league.

 

Had the Elite and Premier League gone for a 37 or 38 point limit for SIX riders and ONE draft rider at reserve then more riders would benefit in the long run. It seems strange that here we are in late January and there are good quality Australians worrying about returning because of work visas while there are lesser quality riders raring to go on low averages.

 

I just hope any loopholes have been taken care of before the season starts and 2014 is a good foundation to take the sport forward in the future, but I can see good riders having lower averages and some lower riders having inflated averages for the 2015 season. Who would you bring back the following season ...... Troy Batchelor on 6.76 or Simon Gustafsson on 6.56 ?

[g13webb]

Totally over the top reaction. Who says he knows the heat formula, have a look at MattK and Incognito's posts.

 

I apologise if my reaction was over the top, but time moves on and we still don't have an official announcement of the format and rules regarding averages and riders.

 

 

It's not rocket science to work out roughly what each rider will have to face in the forthcoming season.

 

RESERVES will have races against each other and also against second strings.

 

SECOND STRINGS will have one ride with each reserve leaving two rides where they will be out with a heat leader

 

HEAT LEADERS will have all their rides against heat leaders or second strings and as the second strings only have two rides with heat leaders then the teams #1 will have all his rides with fellow heat leaders.

 

 

This could mean top riders like Woffinden and Iversen may have nights where they only score six or seven while second strings like Ljung and Gustafsson could be scoring eight or nine and reserves about the same. It may even come down to tactical riding in order to get heat leaders down to second strings by picking up bonus points more often.

 

This will benefit a team when they operate rider replacement as Peter Ljung or Ryan Fisher could move up the order and when they are not available then the old heat leaders like Doyle and Andersen will get extra rides.

 

I too have thought out different ideas of race format, and like you say, the obvious races are clear to see. But what does it all mean?

 

The whole issue of this was to protect the draft rider from riding against top class riders, but seeing how difficult it will be for the heat leaders to score, and the 2nd strings to benefit from the lesser opposition, it won't be long when these rider will be swapping places, meaning top class riders, will then be racing against these draft reserves. which was the main reason, these these stupid ideas were thought of in the first place.

 

What's going to become of the averages. At present, all the riders have a CMA attained from riding in the old format of heats. Once the season starts, then the whole system has to be updated. Top riders will see their average go down, due to a more difficult race format. Riders who don't ride this year will retain their present average and thus be preserved to be better riders with higher scores. 2nd Strings will increase their CMA because of easier races. Will there be an additional factors (like 2nd Str = pts x 1.5) to bring these CMA's on a level footings . Who knows??? What the point of CMA's if they're not comparable.

 

There are so many issues to be answered about these new ideas. Yes, everyone has there own opinions but nobody seems to have all the answers.

 

Imagine the problems there will be next year with all the variable CMA's when trying to equalise teams.........

[pirateandi]

The whole new team average is a joke no wonder sky needed persuading to even sit at the table before rejecting the issue.

[Steve0]

They'll be dragging their feet over announcing the race format so that they can sell more overpriced programmes

[A ORLOV]

One manager hinted that it had not been finalised

[INCOGNITO]

The problem with changes is it's hard to please everyone and certain issues are to be agreed but the principle is about the same and suggested heat formats are pretty much correct and matches will be a game of two halves.

 

The top end and the bottom end !

[Daniel Smith]

I've attempted and completed numerous options of the new race format and the best one I can come up with is the GradeA reserve will have to ride with 2nd heatleader & the GradeB with the 3rd. The riding positions will have to fixed too.

 

If the reserves ride against each other twice and the 2nd strings twice the format becomes compact with a reserve finishing his 4 rides by heat 10 and a 2nd string is finished by heat 11. That doesn't sit well with me.

 

1, Highest Average

2, 4th Average

3, 3rd Average

4, 5th Average

5, 2nd Average

6, GradeA

7, GradeB

 

It's the only way IMO

[SCB]

Its not so much who rides who, we've all worked that out. Its in what order and and from what gates I can't work out

[INCOGNITO]

There is a way as explained in another thread

[Fourentee]

I do feel that Tai Woffinden will be out to prove a point and with bonus points, I fully think he could be an 11+ rider in 2014 and will be chased hard by Iversen and Ward.

 

Appreciate the work put in, I really do, but the prospects of point A above surely appear substantially reduced by the likelihood of point B below.

 

Wolves v Kings Lynn could see Woffinden v Iversen three times before the final heat.

[T.N.T.]

They will drop points against each other which is obvious but Tai, Darcy and Neils are miles ahead of anyone else in the league and even with harder races I think those three will be 10 point riders this season ...... if they stay upright !!

 

 

It will be interesting to see which second strings move up to a heat leader role as they score and heat leaders struggle with the tougher races and likely the third heat leaders are going to be the hardest position in the team.

 

 

I have a format done up, with each rider having the correct gates and if that format (or something like it) is used then you could easily see quite a few matches going into heat 15 with the top scorers being on 7 or 8 points ...... apart from Tai, Darcy and Neils

[SteveLyric2]

One manager hinted that it had not been finalised

Promoters were still being contacted for their preferred option of race format last Monday (20th), so I guess a decision has now been made - assuming there is an out and out preference?!

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

I was concerned about this as the next person but after playing on spreadsheets, I'm happy that it's not going to be a big deal.

 

With a half sensible new heat structure (with EL draft reserves protected), for the main body of the team, the comparative av. CMA of opponents each rider will face during their own programmed will only vary by around +/- 10% per race versus 2013.

Edited January 29, 2014 by pointsmeanplayoffs

[Woz01]

I was concerned about this as the next person but after playing on spreadsheets, I'm happy that it's not going to be a big deal.

 

With a half sensible new heat structure (with EL draft reserves protected), for the main body of the team, the comparative av. CMA of opponents each rider will face during their own programmed will only vary by around +/- 10% per race versus 2013.

Thought that might be the case, the 2nd string heats will no doubt be similar as previous years, yes I know reserves are weaker but I dont see it making a huge difference to 2nd strings averages overall.