uk_martin Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Wholeheartedly agree ON all points bar no.9- I`m not sure the clubs have pushed for Friday and Saturday fixtures. What I would agree with is that matches will be postponed at the last minute if other meetings the day before are rained off resulting in rider un-availability-irrespective whether the match is scheduled for TV. What I meant was it is 4 or 5 races one after the other...with the bikes getting pushed out for the next race as soon as the riders return from the last race...then the interviews take place during the tractor racing, then 4 or 5 more quick fire races...and no advert breaks until the meeting interval. Compare that to the way that SkySports do it...Heat 1 then an interview with Chris Louis then another interview with whoever that woman is then Pearson and Tatum have a rattle, then, after the commercial break it's heat 2...repeat formula 14 more times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Tis the season to be Bah Humbug for some I guess...however there don't appear to be too many line-up conflicts between the 2015 protagonists to it should be good to see Stal Gorzow, Piraterna, Holsted and the Puddle Pirates taking part in some good racing. Got a hotel room booked and am looking forward to making a great weekend of it. And on the subject of great promotion, what a cracking video clip this is...and look where it appears - YOUTUBE - the place that is banned, "Strengst Verboten" and off limits with a wall built around it for all British Speedway Video clips that the BSPA / Ronnie Russell / GoSpeed International cartel can lay claim to http://youtu.be/lhQG-ZieE8I I think Chris Holder riding for both Poole and Piraterna is the 1st big sticking point for this competition and the reason why it will never be taken seriously outside of those clubs that are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) The rule is clear in the event that there is a rider who rides for more than one of the teams concerned. The first team a rider signs for is the one he rides for. With most Aussie and Americans riding in GB before heading over to the continent that's a rule that's sympathetic towards the British teams.Combined squads of 20 top riders with at least half a dozen SGP winners in there is a better field than you'd get for any kind of individual meeting, and best of all, it's a team event. I dare say there will be those who think that this has nothing to do with them but parks and non league football team fans probably don't think that the UEFA Champions League has anything to do with them either. Too bad really as I think that this has the makings of a great meeting. It's interesting that no-one ever says "nothiing to do with us" on threads about Aussie or Kiwi speedway, or about an individual meeting in the USA - (http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=78325) but as soon as you get a meeting that was the idea of someone in Poland, which first took place in Poland and which has it's funding and promotion coming out of Poland, then we get negative comments like these. Are people really that threatened that they have to react like this? Or is it just sour grapes at the realisation that Poland IS the sport's powerhouse now and Great Britain's now just a bit-part player in international speedway? Edited December 26, 2014 by uk martin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) I think Chris Holder riding for both Poole and Piraterna is the 1st big sticking point for this competition and the reason why it will never be taken seriously outside of those clubs that are involved. Just as well Piraterna aren't in it for 2015 then!! Elit Vetlanda are the Swedish champs!! Edited December 25, 2014 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Just as well Piraterna aren't in it for 2015 then!! Elit Vetlanda are the Swedish champs!! Apologies, just went on UK Martins post listing the line up. Although why he has clicked to like your post when it was his error in the first place I'm not sure ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Apologies, just went on UK Martins post listing the line up. Although why he has clicked to like your post when it was his error in the first place I'm not sure ! My bad! Error corrected. I had Vetlanda in one post and Piraterna (2013 champions) in the second post...now both show the right team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's February now and there's nothing in the Poole fixture list to say that they are hosting this event. So one has to wonder. Matt Ford stated their desire to host the event, so were they incapable or organising the event or were they prevented from organising it? Most likely that a venue in Poland will now be chosen if the WSL goes ahead at all. If this is the demise of the competition, then Poole / BSPA / SCB / Britain** can proudly add it to its list of international accomplishments, can't they? Anyone who thinks that GB should have a second SGP should look at the administrative mess that the sport is in, in this country. Who seriously thinks that this shambles will ever deserve a second flagship event? ** delete as appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Butler Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 oh well.. maybe a replacement fixture can be sorted out.. For instance Poole might not be able to be crowned world champs but when if ever have they been crowned Champions of Dorset? They should arrange a Poole vs Weymouth select match so they can put that right. About as meaningful tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 About as meaningful tbh Echos of what people connected with football were saying in the 1950's when European teams were organising pan-European competitions that became what are today the European Champions League and the Europa Cup. As ever, British arrogance and self importance took a while to sweep away before first Scottish and then English teams started to take part and eventually do well in these competitions. Oh well...talk about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Echos of what people connected with football were saying in the 1950's when European teams were organising pan-European competitions that became what are today the European Champions League and the Europa Cup. As ever, British arrogance and self importance took a while to sweep away before first Scottish and then English teams started to take part and eventually do well in these competitions. Oh well...talk about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of history. Yeah but they don't turn up with made up teams though do they? And that is why it's a farce in speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) UK martin, I agree with your point but Football is much bigger then Speedway and football doesn't have the problem with players playing for several teams and etc. My point is that if the SCL wants to be taken seriously, the rules need to be sharpened a bit. No borrowing riders from other, no joker or ts. Full strength 7-rider teams. That is the only way to find out which teams who really is the strongest. The problem with that is that the Swedish and Polish teams are so much stronger then the Danish and British teams. In football, in the past 10 years, there have been several CL-winners from all of the 4 biggest leagues. in SCL the Swedish or Polish team would win every year and how many countries in Europe have their own speedway leagues? Edited February 3, 2015 by Ghostwalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Echos of what people connected with football were saying in the 1950's when European teams were organising pan-European competitions that became what are today the European Champions League and the Europa Cup. As ever, British arrogance and self importance took a while to sweep away before first Scottish and then English teams started to take part and eventually do well in these competitions. Oh well...talk about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of history. Yes, but did the players at the time play for different teams in the same competition? The other point is that the success of the early European competitions was far from certain, not least because travel was more difficult and expensive for most teams. Plus the Fairs Cup had some pretty farcical rules early on, wasn't even organised by an official body, and some would even say the modern Europa Cup is a pointless waste of space nowadays. Any sort of European competition in speedway is doomed not to be taken seriously unless it's organised as a standalone thing where teams sign-up different riders for the competition to eliminate any nonsense about riders competing for more than one team. That would effectively negate any 'champions league' concept, so would have to organised more as a league of the richer teams. The problem with that is that the Swedish and Polish teams are so much stronger then the Danish and British teams. In football, in the past 10 years, there have been several winners from all of the 4 biggest leagues. in SCL the Swedish or Polish team would win every year and how many countries in Europe have their own speedway leagues? No real difference from the champions of the mighty Gibraltar League potentially coming up against the champions of Spain or Germany. The European Champions League has not been won by a team outside of the 'big four' leagues for over 10 years, and only two teams from 'smaller' leagues have broken the monopoly in the past 20 years. In fact, the Champions League has only been won by 12 different teams over the same period. I suppose there's 4 or 5 proper national leagues in speedway, plus the German and Czech leagues, and then maybe 4 or 5 other countries that have team competitions of some sort. So I suppose you could cobble together 12 teams of so, but it would be more sensible to run a franchised based system like Super Rugby in the Southern Hemisphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 All these tournaments start of as a seed in someone's imagination, and then encounter all the objections of the bah humbug brigade. It takes bravery and resolve to drive the tournament forwards, to let it develop and evolve, and along the way to pick up followers and fans. Football's Champions League is the result of a 50+year process. What do you expect from speedway in only 2% of that time? Yes there are only a hand full of leagues of note in European speedway...but then there are as many "top 4" leagues in football as there are "top 4" leagues in speedway - count them - 4! So if the big objection to the WSL is that the teams are "made up", then we'd better scrap all team speedway in Great Britain immediately. There were plenty of EL fixture last year with more guests and R/R than there were own-team riders. The situation in the PL and NL is no better sometimes. If you are happy enough with a sport that has sewn into its DNA: guest riders, R/R, doubling-up, trippling-up and NL fast track reserves, then what the hell is there to moan about with the WSL? And this in a year when there are no rider conflicts between what should be the competing teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) All these tournaments start of as a seed in someone's imagination, and then encounter all the objections of the bah humbug brigade. It takes bravery and resolve to drive the tournament forwards, to let it develop and evolve, and along the way to pick up followers and fans. Football's Champions League is the result of a 50+year process. What do you expect from speedway in only 2% of that time? Yes there are only a hand full of leagues of note in European speedway...but then there are as many "top 4" leagues in football as there are "top 4" leagues in speedway - count them - 4! So if the big objection to the WSL is that the teams are "made up", then we'd better scrap all team speedway in Great Britain immediately. There were plenty of EL fixture last year with more guests and R/R than there were own-team riders. The situation in the PL and NL is no better sometimes. If you are happy enough with a sport that has sewn into its DNA: guest riders, R/R, doubling-up, trippling-up and NL fast track reserves, then what the hell is there to moan about with the WSL? And this in a year when there are no rider conflicts between what should be the competing teams? I think all these things irritate speedway fans and test their patience. Some of these have probably contributed to the decline in the popularity of speedway. I don't think this competition is the way forward. Edited February 5, 2015 by eric i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) It takes bravery and resolve to drive the tournament forwards, to let it develop and evolve, and along the way to pick up followers and fans. Football's Champions League is the result of a 50+year process. What do you expect from speedway in only 2% of that time? A lot more. The European Cup was created in an era when travelling was more difficult and expensive, and there was little or no television and sponsorship money around. Plenty of sports, including amateur sports, have since introduced their own European competitions in a straightforward manner. The big 3 or 4 professional speedway leagues have also been running (in terms of being open competitions) for 25 years now, and the concept of a European competition in speedway was mentioned at least back in 1970s, so it's far more than 2% of the time. So if the big objection to the WSL is that the teams are "made up", then we'd better scrap all team speedway in Great Britain immediately. There were plenty of EL fixture last year with more guests and R/R than there were own-team riders. The situation in the PL and NL is no better sometimes. If you are happy enough with a sport that has sewn into its DNA: guest riders, R/R, doubling-up, trippling-up and NL fast track reserves, then what the hell is there to moan about with the WSL? And this in a year when there are no rider conflicts between what should be the competing teams? Yes, but I don't think you want those bad habits creeping into a European competition. Edited February 4, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Echos of what people connected with football were saying in the 1950's when European teams were organising pan-European competitions that became what are today the European Champions League and the Europa Cup. As ever, British arrogance and self importance took a while to sweep away before first Scottish and then English teams started to take part and eventually do well in these competitions. Whilst Alan Hardaker (Secretary of the Football League) was a notorious xenophobe, there were probably some rationale concerns about participation in the early years. Travel was slower, less reliable, and (as as the Munich air disaster demonstrated) potentially dangerous, which meant squeezing European matches in-between regular league matches was much more of a logistical challenge. In addition, some teams in the competition in those days didn't have floodlits or preferred to play on weekends, which would have meant postponing league matches. Bear in mind that the first Football League match under lights was only played the same year as the introduction of the European Cup. Given that teams almost entirely relied on gate revenue in those days, and that postponed matches generally had to be played during midweek days which meant poor crowds, you can somewhat understand the reluctance of the Football League to disrupt a stable competition for something that was financially risk and uncertain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 The rule is clear in the event that there is a rider who rides for more than one of the teams concerned. The first team a rider signs for is the one he rides for. Would still reduce the competition to a farce, and would not be a true test of champions if some teams are having to replace their No.1 rider with R/R, a junior or whatever. Like I said, I think a franchise model along the lines of the Pro-12 or SuperRugby would be a better approach for speedway. Designate 4 teams from Britain, 4 from Poland, 4 from Sweden, a couple from Denmark and maybe one each from Germany and the Czech Republic, and run as a standalone competition with some sort of draft system or salary cap to ensure all the best riders don't end-up in the Polish teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 To be quite honest, what I think should happen is that we need to go one stage further with the big European project. I'd like to see something along the lines of 4 each of British Swedish and Polish teams plus the best German Danish and Czech teams forming a European Super League. Let them sign riders on a one rider one team basis, with these riders riding for that team and no other. Beneath this Super League level, we in Britain can take the remaining EL teams and add them to the PL / NL to create a new British League (Div's 1 & 2?) The Super League can then avoid the SGP / SWC calendar, whilst the "BL" can run independently of outside influences, and probably a lot cheaper too. That way if you want real top flight speedway, there will be 4 teams who you can go to watch in this country. If you want grass roots, jumpers for goalposts speedway, the rest of the BL will be happy to oblige for you. At a guess, I'd think that media companies on the continent would be delighted with the opportunity to provide the coverage on a pan-European level. It may have to be Polish-led but if that's where the money is, and where the sponsors are, then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Said it was madness years ago and the fans wouldn't support it..........I ain't wrong so far.Only take off if some rich arab sheik takes an interest and I won't hold my breath on that.Monster raving loony,i say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Stal Gorzow have been raising the subject on Social Media...maybe if Poole can't get their act together, Stal will host the event? Just wish Poole would put as much effort into organising this meeting as they spend on sticking up for Darcy Ward. We'd have a firm fixture in the calendar if they did. EDIT 1 It seems that the FIM may be acting to solve one of the biggest objections to the WSL / SCL that has been voiced on here. Has this been reported in any British publication / web site, so as a proper English version of events (as opposed to Google's electro-mechanical translation) can be read? http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/499881/lwim-pazurem-25-wielkie-tak-dla-zuzlowej-ligi-mistrzow-koniec-z-cyrkiem-objazdow EDIT 2 Well good on Stal Gorzow for doing the honourable thing. Sadly, SHAME ON POOLE for their portrayal of British Speedway's inability to orgainise a pi$$-up in a brewery. This I suspect won't feature in any British publication or web site. http://www.sportowefakty.pl/zuzel/499912/stal-gorzow-rozwaza-organizacje-ligi-mistrzow Edited February 9, 2015 by uk martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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