Bagpuss Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 But I'm still expecting us to beat Latvia & USA under Rosco, however far behind the top nations we are. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 But I'm still expecting us to beat Latvia & USA under Rosco, however far behind the top nations we are. We'l see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 We'l see... So are you saying that those two nations have better riders than us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 They are not world class, but they should be able to beat the likes of Ricky Wells and Gino Manzares. Yes, we are light years behind Poland, Denmark and even Australia but no one expects us to be competing at the top level. However, we should be easily seeing off the likes of USA and Latvia. The SWC should be your best four riders, not for blooding youngsters. If young riders want to gain experience they should leave the relative comfort of the Premier League and go and fight for a ride in Poland and Sweden. Dont agree at all, blending the youngsters in amongst Tai learning listening has to be the way to go.Ok would you do the same old same old,? beat say the USA is your BRIEF to Rosco go and be fifth.Also the PL is not an easy place to ride ask Doyle, Bech, Cook Cook is a fine example this lad is ambitious but to get a place abroad is not easy.Is Doyle not ambitious?he still rides PL he has improved no end have a longterm vision i recon be prepared to have a bit of short term hurt to improve overall in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 So are you saying that those two nations have better riders than us? On the face of no, but why are they beating us? You have to ask that question.. Dont agree at all, blending the youngsters in amongst Tai learning listening has to be the way to go. And people are going to have to accept, we are going to get beat.. But unless we do that, we ain't going to move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 RIght we had plenty to choose from is that right? Last season, once Middlo picked his 4, my mum, a total speedway numptie who could probably name you about 2 or 3 current day riders could have picked 4 more Brits who would have had the beating of the Latvians! She could have gone with Nicholls, King, Barker and Bridger. All 4 of them are better than anything Latvia has to offer and are better than 3 (at least 2) of anything the USA had to offer. Would we have beat the Poles, Aussies or Danes? Well the Americans got within 5 of the Aussies in the race-off so possibly but I'll conceed probably not. But in our best 4 we have Woffy, Harris, Nicholls and Cook. Thats a very impressive, very capable 4. Capable of beating the Aussie team they put out. I maintain we have the rider to be the 3rd best team in the World with a bit of "luck", prep and get up and go. We should be top 4 without too much effort. We ended up 7th FFS! Apparently Cook tried to get rides in Sweden and Poland but was unsuccessful, partly due to his EL average. Sweden and Poland assess foreigners overly high so there are no bargains. Not unfairly high but they take a cautious approach,. What do we do? The opposite, decide what they're capable of and round down. We should be doing what the Swedes and Danes have done for years. On the face of no, but why are they beating us? You have to ask that question.. The penny drops. Why did they beat us? Because Middlo went into a meeting in a foreign country with 2 rider who had a couple of days to prep. Now if he'd got the 4 riders correct in the first place, if he's worked wirth them, if he;'d got their bets out of them then we would have beat the Latvians and the Americas who were prepping for the SWC for months (certainly the Americans were) and knew which 4 were going to ride months in advance with Wells and Fisher who are no great shakes the chance to get ready to go out and beat the World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 On the face of no, but why are they beating us? You have to ask that question.. If we beat them both under Rosco that will answer the question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I recall England against Rest of the world, we were that good, now we cant beat rest of elite lge! Louis Jessup lee Collins simmo ashby kennett davis Morton Wilson.......how times have changed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I recall England against Rest of the world, we were that good, now we cant beat rest of elite lge! Louis Jessup lee Collins simmo ashby kennett davis Morton Wilson.......how times have changed Wow yes - how things have changed indeed. :shock: With the possible exception of Tai - I can't think of anyone these days who would rate at all in THAT company. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 quality british finals, not a 2nd tier rider in sight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Wow yes - how things have changed indeed. :shock: With the possible exception of Tai - I can't think of anyone these days who would rate at all in THAT company. :sad: Yes WK at the time we took those quality riders for granted, over a period we had PC, Lee,Simmons,Betts, Wilson, both Boocock,s Ashby ,Louis, Kennett, Mort, and even riders later on like Wyer Davis, Cartwright (ex) were very good riders also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 even further down the order ian turner, tony Davey. les Collins, the list is endless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 On the face of no, but why are they beating us? You have to ask that question.. And people are going to have to accept, we are going to get beat.. But unless we do that, we ain't going to move forward. Spot on Starman, i predict it is a minimum of a 5 or a 10 year plan, even then i am not confident.We are light years behind is fifth good anough i would rather have a bit of doom and gloom but improve over a period of time once Rossiters honeymoon period is over will he make that much difference motivation skills take you only so far.even further down the order ian turner, tony Davey. les Collins, the list is endlessSo right Colin, since say 1970/ 83 riders England have had at our disposal E Boocock. N.Boocock P. Collins N.Collins Phil Collins, Louis, Ray Wilson, Reg Wilson, Simmons,Ashby,Wyer, Haley, Pratt, Younghusband, Kilby, Lee,Jessup,Davey, Carter,Cartwright, Pusey, Wilkinson,Davis,got to be a few i have missed as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Still can't turn selling platers into Derby horses, no matter how much enthusiaum you have..Simples... But im affraid people will have to accept the fact that if Rosco does pitch some of these kids in the deep end then you will have to expect them to be tailed off. But im affraid what other choice does Rosco have.. When you think the lads like Cook Worrell Barker Kennet Bridger are still light years away from the Poles Danes Aussie second strings if you like, then you drop down further. So work it out for yourselves. We are miles behind the above, So if anybody expects Rosco and Morris to work wonders and pull bunnies out the hat in 5 minutes they are dreaming. We have just got to accept, we are not good enough, and the best we can hope for is the race off. That said, its now worth mixing the kids and say go out and do your best.. no presure.. No one expects them to Beat the Danes Poles etc ...what they do expect is to ride to standard when don't get beat by the likes of Latvia and the Usa etc like they did under Middlo ...so if Rosco can do that most will be happy . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Still can't turn selling platers into Derby horses Yet Latvia and the USA seemingly did! (albeit with the help of double-agent Muddlo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) No one expects them to Beat the Danes Poles etc ...what they do expect is to ride to standard when don't get beat by the likes of Latvia and the Usa etc like they did under Middlo ...so if Rosco can do that most will be happy .Right and be also rans for ever! you are deluded those nations you have named have not always been powerhouses have they? it takes hard work why can't we be again again it won't happen overnight but at least try though could i care less if we beat the USA and Latvia no. Edited January 18, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Right and be also rans for ever! you are deluded those nations you have named have not always been powerhouses have they? it takes hard work why can't we be again again it won't happen overnight but at least try though could i care less if we beat the USA and Latvia no. Why would be also rans for ever if we beat the Usa and Latvia ? why won't we be working hard ? who said it would happen overnight ? Edited January 18, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Sorry but I can't understand a word of that . Try reading it, word, by word, very s l o w l y, then you might get the gist...Yes, we should beat the Latvians and the USA, but even that shows you haw far down the pecking order we really are. Even the USA are knowhere near the force they used to be... Now as i said in another post, if Rosco puts out a lot of the kids, then nobody can complain not if, when we get beat, because at this moment in time the only real international rider we have is Tai. But im affraid its the only way forward... Edited January 18, 2014 by Starman2006 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Right and be also rans for ever! you are deluded those nations you have named have not always been powerhouses have they? it takes hard work why can't we be again again it won't happen overnight but at least try though could i care less if we beat the USA and Latvia no. We dont want to be also rans forever. Thats the point. What was Middlo doing to stop us being also rans either now or in the future? I happen to believe that without too much effort we are SWC finalists and on the right day can make the top 3 in the SWC final. Lets do that, lets get ourself into solid SWC finalists. THEN we can start introducing a youth element to build for the future. But Middlo did neither did he? Phil Morris is doing a good job working with some talented young kids ATM and bring them on, they'll become the SWC rider of a few years time. I could begrudgingly accept 7th place if we had gone with a team of Woffinden, Cook, Worrall and Garrity who IMO should be able to give Team USA a run for their money anyway but we didn't. Either aim to get the best result possible (technically 1st but realistically 3rd) or go with youth and give them a realistic target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Try reading it, word, by word, very s l o w l y, then you might get the gist...Yes, we should beat the Latvians and the USA, but even that shows you haw far down the pecking order we really are. Even the USA are knowhere near the force they used to be... So as people have been saying we should be doing better ? at last the penny has dropped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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