Visas

[Elephantman]

Make your mind up. They either sold things or they gave them away.

Are the test details of the air fences safe I ask.

 

Yes, you could Bank on that.

I'm not here to educate you but as you asked. The National Industries that were privatised were significantly under valued to encourage Joe Public to buy shares. Despite this fact the majority of the shares went to the management of these organisations and City Institution. Within a short period of time many of those shares were sold at the correct market values making millionaires of many average middle managers and making the City billions in profits. Just like the recent Post Office sale the shares were sold at a price way below the value of the company so that the government could rake some cash in to cover the failure of their economic policies. So in effect billions of pounds of our money was GIVEN away!

 

These shares were bought by the foreign investors mentioned because even though they paid a high price for control of these companies they knew that the "regulation" of these false markets was weak and they could charge what the hell they liked as the Great British public are so gullible. All these businesses are in a monopoly market place set up to look like a "open" market. Non of these companies compete with each other in real terms as the variance in price they offer is driven by two factors 1. Costs of sales and marketing 2. How much profit they can get away with before customers switch. All other price factors are pretty much the same for the utilities. The train companies cannot effectively compete with each other for two reasons 1. Most do not run services in direct competition to each other 2. The Civil Servants (i.e. Polticians) decide the Timetables and the rail franchises bid to operate a service designed by Mandarins who are in effect playing with the biggest trains set in the world. This is what they have done which is why our power, water and train prices are the highest in the world (for any major economy).

 

* The French, Germans and Dutch do not let Johnny Foreigner run these utilities and services in their countries.

 

Does that clarify the situation for you. To further assist this is all relevant to Speedway because the biggest issue the sport has is getting people through the doors; bearing in mind the sport has traditionally appealed to what is euphemistically known as the "working classes" it is this group that have been most hard hit by the rip off prices for essential services and the failure of the current Governments economic polices. Costs in speedway have risen significantly; the sport is struggling to reflect those costs in the prices that are charged.

 

Do you really want me to start on Air Fences again??

Edited January 7, 2014 by Elephantman

[Humphrey Appleby]

* The French, Germans and Dutch do not let Johnny Foreigner run these utilities and services in their countries.

Not true.

 

The Dutch telco is at least 50% owned by foreign organisations, whilst the postal service was privatised years ago and was being run by TNT which is Australian. There is also competition in the energy sector with a number of foreign companies competing with the domestic ones.

 

In France and Germany, many if not all the utilities are privatised as well. Whilst most of the shareholders may still be indigenous because of the size of the economies, they are in principle open to foreign ownership.

 

People really do need to get away from these nationalistic attitudes. It really doesn't matter who owns what in the grand scheme of things - that's what free markets are about - and in some areas like mobile telecoms, the UK is doing very well in other countries. Furthermore, domestic shareholders are just as likely as foreign ones to exploit weak regulation and rip off their customers.

 

Conversely, years of UK public ownership resulted in gross under-investments in areas like energy and water supply which is one of the reasons why prices have gone up so much now. It's also one of the reasons why French companies were better placed to buy into the UK markets because they were in better shape than many of ours when privatisation came.

[Elephantman]

Not true.

 

The Dutch telco is at least 50% owned by foreign organisations, whilst the postal service was privatised years ago and was being run by TNT which is Australian. There is also competition in the energy sector with a number of foreign companies competing with the domestic ones.

 

In France and Germany, many if not all the utilities are privatised as well. Whilst most of the shareholders may still be indigenous because of the size of the economies, they are in principle open to foreign ownership.

 

People really do need to get away from these nationalistic attitudes. It really doesn't matter who owns what in the grand scheme of things - that's what free markets are about - and in some areas like mobile telecoms, the UK is doing very well in other countries. Furthermore, domestic shareholders are just as likely as foreign ones to exploit weak regulation and rip off their customers.

 

Conversely, years of UK public ownership resulted in gross under-investments in areas like energy and water supply which is one of the reasons why prices have gone up so much now. It's also one of the reasons why French companies were better placed to buy into the UK markets because they were in better shape than many of ours when privatisation came.

You are correct; delete Holland except when it comes to Railways. You cannot compete for Rail Franchises in Germany or France unless you are German or French owned. The reasons the French Companies were in better shape was that they were correctly funded by the French Tax Payers. The publicly owned companies in the UK wanted to go to the capital markets to raise the capital to invest; the Thatcher government refused to allow that because of political dogma; "privatisation is best"!

 

My point is that many other countries do not operate a "free market" when it comes to essential services. So EDF (for example) can take their profits from the UK and subsidise power prices in France.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_France

 

Greater Anglia Railways (Abellio) are the Dutch National Railways (NS) who are owned by the State of The Netherlands

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandse_Spoorwegen

 

Many people (perhaps like you) are perpetuating the myth of competition in Utilities and Essential Services; there is no such thing and if Nationalising these industries was so bad and our industries in such a poor state why would the National Owned Companies of other countries buy them..... because we are a Nation that has a gullible population that accepts been ripped off by big business that is why!

 

To relate it to the Visa issue; the immigration numbers are chicken feed in terms of cost to this country the big money is been lost giving profits to Foreign companies that have purchased Utilities and Essential services. As a UK Passport holder of many years that worries me far more than a bunch of Aussies coming over here to race speedway!

[Tsunami]

I'm not here to educate you but as you asked. The National Industries that were privatised were significantly under valued to encourage Joe Public to buy shares. Despite this fact the majority of the shares went to the management of these organisations and City Institution. Within a short period of time many of those shares were sold at the correct market values making millionaires of many average middle managers and making the City billions in profits. Just like the recent Post Office sale the shares were sold at a price way below the value of the company so that the government could rake some cash in to cover the failure of their economic policies. So in effect billions of pounds of our money was GIVEN away!

 

These shares were bought by the foreign investors mentioned because even though they paid a high price for control of these companies they knew that the "regulation" of these false markets was weak and they could charge what the hell they liked as the Great British public are so gullible. All these businesses are in a monopoly market place set up to look like a "open" market. Non of these companies compete with each other in real terms as the variance in price they offer is driven by two factors 1. Costs of sales and marketing 2. How much profit they can get away with before customers switch. All other price factors are pretty much the same for the utilities. The train companies cannot effectively compete with each other for two reasons 1. Most do not run services in direct competition to each other 2. The Civil Servants (i.e. Polticians) decide the Timetables and the rail franchises bid to operate a service designed by Mandarins who are in effect playing with the biggest trains set in the world. This is what they have done which is why our power, water and train prices are the highest in the world (for any major economy).

 

* The French, Germans and Dutch do not let Johnny Foreigner run these utilities and services in their countries.

 

Does that clarify the situation for you. To further assist this is all relevant to Speedway because the biggest issue the sport has is getting people through the doors; bearing in mind the sport has traditionally appealed to what is euphemistically known as the "working classes" it is this group that have been most hard hit by the rip off prices for essential services and the failure of the current Governments economic polices. Costs in speedway have risen significantly; the sport is struggling to reflect those costs in the prices that are charged.

 

Do you really want me to start on Air Fences again??

 

Exactly. That is how they sell things to make sure they are bought. That is the system, and i don't see your point that they are being given away, if folks have to buy them. The price is the inducement to buy, that's how financial transactions work.

BTW I was very happy at the loads of shares I bought as an employee of the then British Gas in 1986. Unlike your quotation though and being a Senior Manager in BG, It didn't make me a millionaire, perhaps I missed the boat cos I am very definitely British.

 

Whilst I can see where you are coming from regarding competition within an industry, there was always competition between electric, oil and gas as the home fuel market. That was the reason why regulation by the Off..... bodies were brought in to make an industry competitive by financial analysis and future investment.

 

Please no. You have bored enough folks on here with your previous contributions on the subject.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Tsunami

[topaz325]

Taken from the official Workington site ** May 2013 **

 

 

 

Unfortunately it is with regret that I need to let everyone know that the UKBA will not go back on their original decision to refuse my visa for 2013 due to the new rules which came into effect at the end of last year.

The grounds of refusal are based on paragraph 245HB of the UK Immigration Rules which states:
“(g) The applicant must not have had entry clearance or leave to remain as a Tier 2 Migrant at any time during the 12 months immediately before the date of the application”

The grounds for my appeal were that we believed this rule was for when an application was being made to renew an expired visa . My visa was valid until 1/12/13 and the only reason we had to re-apply was due to the full transfer from Glasgow to Workington and we believed it to be just a formality so that the sponsor details could be changed on the existing visa. Apparently this is not the case and anybody who puts in an application for a Tier 2 Sportsperson Visa will be faced with these new rules. ( Even though several applicants this year have slipped through the system.)

The whole process started in the UK at the beginning of January and has taken until now to be refused. To say that I am devastated is an understatement.

[Elephantman]

Please no. You have bored enough folks on here with your previous contributions on the subject.

Sort of answer I'd expect from the Spokesperson for.... how many people do you represent again; is that just you and your dog, or your mate down the pub as well?

 

You may have been a British Gas Manager but you fail the basics on competition theory.

[Tsunami]

Sort of answer I'd expect from the Spokesperson for.... how many people do you represent again; is that just you and your dog, or your mate down the pub as well?

 

You may have been a British Gas Manager but you fail the basics on competition theory.

Thank christ you didn't mention the air fences but.

[Humphrey Appleby]

You are correct; delete Holland except when it comes to Railways.

Even that's not entirely correct. NS mainline passenger services may still be owned by the state, but freight services are run by Deutsche Bahn and there are a number of regional passenger franchises run by various French, German and British/German (Arriva) companies.

 

Many people (perhaps like you) are perpetuating the myth of competition in Utilities and Essential Services; there is no such thing and if Nationalising these industries was so bad and our industries in such a poor state why would the National Owned Companies of other countries buy them..... because we are a Nation that has a gullible population that accepts been ripped off by big business that is why!

I wasn't really arguing about the competition one way or another - I was pointing out there are foreign owned utilities in other countries. This said, nationalised industries in the UK were generally poorly run (whether they were or not elsewhere), successive governments were not prepared to capitalise them or charge realistic prices, and the result was years of under-investment and decline. Other companies were prepared to buy our services because they clearly better understood how to leverage the marketplace, and we had to sell because the existing infrastructure (particularly with respect to water) would eventually have broken at existing levels of investment.

 

The one area where the UK was ahead though, was in the early deregulation of telecoms. I don't think it can be argued that it wasn't beneficial to the consumer over time, and it also made for some strong British telecoms companies (e.g. BT, Cable & Wireless, Vodafone) which have substantial global interests.

 

As a UK Passport holder of many years that worries me far more than a bunch of Aussies coming over here to race speedway!

And the numbers that race speedway are hardly likely to make a dent in immigration numbers. However, the point is that on the one hand people decry all the immigration and demand stricter controls, but when they get them (which is the reality of this bureaucracy), they somehow seem to think that speedway riders shouldn't have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else...

[Guest]

And the numbers that race speedway are hardly likely to make a dent in immigration numbers. However, the point is that on the one hand people decry all the immigration and demand stricter controls, but when they get them (which is the reality of this bureaucracy), they somehow seem to think that speedway riders shouldn't have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else...

 

Well said.

[Elephantman]

Even that's not entirely correct. NS mainline passenger services may still be owned by the state, but freight services are run by Deutsche Bahn and there are a number of regional passenger franchises run by various French, German and British/German (Arriva) companies.

I stand corrected; my source will be shot at dawn!

 

I wasn't really arguing about the competition one way or another - I was pointing out there are foreign owned utilities in other countries. This said, nationalised industries in the UK were generally poorly run (whether they were or not elsewhere), successive governments were not prepared to capitalise them or charge realistic prices, and the result was years of under-investment and decline. Other companies were prepared to buy our services because they clearly better understood how to leverage the marketplace, and we had to sell because the existing infrastructure (particularly with respect to water) would eventually have broken at existing levels of investment.

 

The one area where the UK was ahead though, was in the early deregulation of telecoms. I don't think it can be argued that it wasn't beneficial to the consumer over time, and it also made for some strong British telecoms companies (e.g. BT, Cable & Wireless, Vodafone) which have substantial global interests.

Not quite correct; British Rail was light years ahead of any other national railway in terms of cost control and use of technology. According to all independent research BR were the cheapest run national railway to the Tax Payer between 1975 and privatisation. The Tax subsidy to the rail industry has more than doubled since privatisation in real terms and most of this has been paid out in over inflated wages to senior managers and profits to the private companies. We the tax payer are still paying for the renewal of infrastructure and then we can't afford the fares to use the damn things!

 

And the numbers that race speedway are hardly likely to make a dent in immigration numbers. However, the point is that on the one hand people decry all the immigration and demand stricter controls, but when they get them (which is the reality of this bureaucracy), they somehow seem to think that speedway riders shouldn't have to jump through the same hoops as everyone else...

As I mentioned for me immigration is not an issue; the facts show that the majority of immigrants make a significant contribution to this country. If all other countries started behaving the way we do to Johnny Foreigner and sent all the Brits back home we really would be in the do do!

 

I do feel sorry for the people who have been caught up in what is just political posturing.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Elephantman

[The White Knight]

I used to travel by Train - now - I can't afford to. I think that says it all really. :sad:

[RobMcCaffery]

I used to travel by Train - now - I can't afford to. I think that says it all really. :sad:

 

I'm saving up for a ride. Every time I get the cash together they put the fare up...

[SCB]

I'm saving up for a ride. Every time I get the cash together they put the fare up...

Im waiting for a daily express headline, "rail fares up. Joy for millions"

[DW]

Taken from the official Workington site ** May 2013 **

 

 

 

Unfortunately it is with regret that I need to let everyone know that the UKBA will not go back on their original decision to refuse my visa for 2013 due to the new rules which came into effect at the end of last year.

 

The grounds of refusal are based on paragraph 245HB of the UK Immigration Rules which states:

“(g) The applicant must not have had entry clearance or leave to remain as a Tier 2 Migrant at any time during the 12 months immediately before the date of the application”

 

The grounds for my appeal were that we believed this rule was for when an application was being made to renew an expired visa . My visa was valid until 1/12/13 and the only reason we had to re-apply was due to the full transfer from Glasgow to Workington and we believed it to be just a formality so that the sponsor details could be changed on the existing visa. Apparently this is not the case and anybody who puts in an application for a Tier 2 Sportsperson Visa will be faced with these new rules. ( Even though several applicants this year have slipped through the system.)

 

The whole process started in the UK at the beginning of January and has taken until now to be refused. To say that I am devastated is an understatement.

So any rider who gets transferred and the VISA has to be amended has got no chance, which may explain Davies

[RobMcCaffery]

Im waiting for a daily express headline, "rail fares up. Joy for millions"

"Weather chaos to close railways for decades - if only Diana were here"!"

[SCB]

These shares were bought by the foreign investors mentioned because even though they paid a high price for control of these companies they knew that the "regulation" of these false markets was weak and they could charge what the hell they liked as the Great British public are so gullible. All these businesses are in a monopoly market place set up to look like a "open" market. Non of these companies compete with each other in real terms as the variance in price they offer is driven by two factors 1. Costs of sales and marketing 2. How much profit they can get away with before customers switch. All other price factors are pretty much the same for the utilities.

How how to you explain this?

 

Out utility prices are some of the cheapest in Europe. Do you know what our biggest problem is? Not utilities, not rail fare, not petrol, not even food. It's housing. Our housing costs are some of the most expensive in the World. Price per square metre of housing per country

[Elephantman]

How how to you explain this?

 

Out utility prices are some of the cheapest in Europe. Do you know what our biggest problem is? Not utilities, not rail fare, not petrol, not even food. It's housing. Our housing costs are some of the most expensive in the World. Price per square metre of housing per country

How do you explain:

 

"Across Europe, the actual wholesale gas price, together with suppliers' profit margins, represents 54% of an average gas bill, while distribution represents 23%, energy taxes 7% and sales tax 16%.

 

In the UK, the price of energy including margins makes up 67% of a gas bill, while distribution represents 23%, energy taxes 6% and VAT 5%."

 

From:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25639406

 

So strip out taxes and we are being ripped off by the energy companies, 13% higher!

[Grachan]

How how to you explain this?

 

Out utility prices are some of the cheapest in Europe. Do you know what our biggest problem is? Not utilities, not rail fare, not petrol, not even food. It's housing. Our housing costs are some of the most expensive in the World. Price per square metre of housing per country

 

Absolutely. It's absurd how people delight at how expensive their house is. I've just bought one. It's far too expensive.

 

If the price goes up, well whoopie dooo for me. So I can sell it and make heaps of money - and then pay even more money for another one.

 

The only benefit I can see from house prices going up is if you own more than one.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

I have been informed this morning that the visa problem may not only be affecting the 3 mentioned so far but could actually involve EVERY AUSSIE application!

 

Could just be chinese whispers but......

[Humphrey Appleby]

In the UK, the price of energy including margins makes up 67% of a gas bill, while distribution represents 23%, energy taxes 6% and VAT 5%."

So strip out taxes and we are being ripped off by the energy companies, 13% higher!

I'm not sure it's so straightforward, particularly with respect to gas bill. We've having to ship a lot of liquified gas from the Middle East now, which has required a lot of investment in new facilities.

 

Many other European countries are getting their gas piped from Russia, with all the political dimensions involved with that.