pandorum Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Best I ever saw. Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Tommy Jansson, Anders Michanek, Hans Nielsen, Bruce Penhall, Peter Collins, Ole Olsen. And out of that lot the best speedway rider I ever saw was Tommy Jansson. Edited February 4, 2014 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Ok, here's my first crack at top 10 riders by decade, starting at the 60s (I don't know enough about the 50s and prior ) and including a guess at the 2010s. 60s Fundin Briggs Mauger Knuttson Craven Plechanov Moore Woryna Wyglenda GNorden 70s Mauger Olsen Collins Michanek Lee Simmons Louis Autrey PlechP Crump 80s Nielsen Penhall Gundersen Lee Carter S Moran Pedersen Morton Sigalos Knudsen 90s Rikkardson Nielsen Ermolenko Jonsson Hamil Hancock Pedersen Havelock Gollob Knudsen 2000s Crump Rickardson Pedersen Gollob Adams Loram Hancock Sullivan Hampel 2010s Ward Emil Holder Hancock Gollob Hampel N Pedersen Crump Dudek Tai Woffinden (here's hoping!) Very good, waihekeaces 1.You've got me going there. So here's a go at completing the decades... 1920s: Arthur, Huxley, Smythe, Lamont, Pearce, Parker (J), Frogley ®, Kempster, 1930s: Farndon, Wilkinson, Milne (J), Langton, Huxley, Van Praag, Milne ©, Parker (J). 1940s: Duggan (V), Parker (J), Price, Johnson, Kitchen, Chitty, Langton, Parker (N) 1950s: Young, Moore ®, Fundin, Briggs, Craven, Williams, Waterman, Lawson, Edited February 4, 2014 by norbold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Best I ever saw. Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Tommy Jansson, Anders Michanek, Hans Nielsen, Bruce Penhall, Peter Collins, Ole Olsen. And out of that lot the best speedway rider I ever saw was Tommy Jansson. "Pandorum" i would agree with you to an extent, ,Jansson was a terrific rider an awesome riding style he certainly was one of the best riders i have ever seen.I only see him ride six times he beat Ashby for the helmet and i see him a few times at international level but i have often thought could he of pushed PC at Katowice in 76.?I think so that year he was riding so well, i always thought PC,Tommy,and Phil Crump were the ones who could push through the old rearguard of Briggo,Ivan, and Ole.It would be great to hear from people who see quite alot of Tommy ride i was lucky i at least see him ride half a dozen times. gustix, on 21 Jan 2014 - 10:32 PM, said: At best, for a fast-changing sport like speedway in my opinion the nearest we can get is to have 'best eights' for 10 year periods. The value of these is that some riders will make the crossover between eras and this surely is of more value than an 'all time top eight riders' table. Something like this? Posted 18 months ago, so the 2010 list would change a bit now – but pleased that I got Tai in there! waihekeaces1, on 13 Jun 2012 - 11:39 PM, said: Ok, here's my first crack at top 10 riders by decade, starting at the 60s (I don't know enough about the 50s and prior ) and including a guess at the 2010s. 60s Fundin Briggs Mauger Knuttson Craven Plechanov Moore Woryna Wyglenda GNorden 70s Mauger Olsen Collins Michanek Lee Simmons Louis Autrey PlechP Crump80s Nielsen Penhall Gundersen Lee Carter S Moran Pedersen Morton SigalosKnudsen90s Rikkardson Nielsen Ermolenko Jonsson Hamil Hancock Pedersen Havelock GollobKnudsen2000s Crump Rickardson Pedersen Gollob Adams Loram Hancock SullivanHampel2010s Ward Emil Holder Hancock Gollob Hampel N Pedersen Crump Dudek Tai Woffinden (here's hoping!) AD1974, on 22 Jan 2014 - 12:19 AM, said: It is impossible to include league performance or results from other qualifiers and internationals but in the Gundersen/Nielsen debate they surely suggest that Nielsen was a better rider don't they?! I disagree – I’m actually working on a sytsem to do exactly that - a ranking based on performances in the world final, qualifiers, internationals, league and BLRC. So far, I’ve just done 1981-1985, and the weightings need some tinkering, but it gives some interesting results. Purely for that period, you get a top five of: Based on single season peak 1 Penhall(81) 2, Nielsen (85) 3. Carter (82) 4. Gundersen (83) 5. Lee (83) Based on average of best three seasons 1 Penhall (two seasons only) 2 Nielsen 3 gundersen 4 Carter 5 S Moran Based on cumulative scores over that period 1 Nielsen 2Gundersen 3 Carter 4 S Moran 5 Knudsen I hope to do the same for all seasons (I did a similar thing for 2013), but is dependent on having free time to do so. sidney, on 22 Jan 2014 - 10:38 AM, said: Forget the pairs team events, Lee had a better world final record than Collins, he had six finals he was on the rostrum x2 a winner once and a fourth place.Collins had eight appearances a winner once ( very unlucky in 77) but Lee was unlucky in 83 i believe he was the best rider in the world that year on stats Lee is the better in my book.Certainly on the WF record also i know Lee was finished after 83 but he was up there easily with Nielsen,Erik,Sigalos, Penhall a new generation Peter was finished really by 80/81as a possible winner. But why forget those events – just because PC had a better record? Lee’s record in world finals was marginally better than PC granted (better average, i’d say a gold and two bronze is fractionally better than a gold and two silver, though PC deserves credit for making more finals), but in every other respect PC’s record was better. 83 stats would suggest Lee was the third best in the world, behind Hans and Eric, though at his peak that season he was unstoppable (THAT demolition of Carter!). He only made the rostrum in the final due to Hans puncture though. The argument that can be made in faour of Lee is not what he did achieve (PC’s achievement IMHO dwarf Lees) but what he could have achieved. when he rode that last final at Norden, he was roughly the same age as PC, Erik and Tai when they won their first titles, and younger than Penhall and Hans. gustix, on 27 Jan 2014 - 08:19 AM, said: I thought you would have heard of the leading website - The Speedway Researcher? Yes I am acquainted with that excellent site– however those war time meetings weren’t listed in the “special” section along with the 46-48 British Riders Champs or the World Champs, hence my query. Thanks to you and Norbold for your responses, I’ve now located them, and will peruse when I have time. sidney, on 29 Jan 2014 - 09:49 AM, said: An impressive list Andy, am chuffed Lee is in front of Collins and Penhall agree with all of them except Pedersen he would not get in my 16. I think Nicki has to be regarded as one of the top 16 of all time. You can’t fluke three world titles under the GP system that he has ridden under, in at least one of those seasons he was indisputably the best rider across all competitions. Nicki seems to be the most under rated multi world champ of all time. That said, he doesn’t make my own top dozen. A really good read can't say i disagree with much of that, 83 i thought was a good year thinking back Olsen was then still riding at a really high level. 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waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 83 was a year where there seemed no real stand out rider, with penhall gone and carter not matching the heights of the previous season. Nielsen gundersen and lee arguably a notch ahead of sigalos sanders and carter with the likes of olsen morton also world class. A different world final venue and arguably any of those could hsve won it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 83 was a year where there seemed no real stand out rider, with penhall gone and carter not matching the heights of the previous season. Nielsen gundersen and lee arguably a notch ahead of sigalos sanders and carter with the likes of olsen morton also world class. A different world final venue and arguably any of those could hsve won it.Went to Norden got there at six in the morning ,was p.....g down thought the meeting would certainly be off.I liked the track it was not a great final but the turning points were when Lee had a bummer of a ride against Kenny and Sanders who gated Muller was not tough anough on him who would of thought that of Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I was there too sid. A poor final in terms of racing (morton v shirra th e only good race) but egon was superb. Need to ride hard to win the world final, look at the way lee moved penhall in 80, penhall moved nielsen in 81. Tbh though, no matter how hard sanders had ridden muller had the speed to pass anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I was there too sid. A poor final in terms of racing (morton v shirra th e only good race) but egon was superb. Need to ride hard to win the world final, look at the way lee moved penhall in 80, penhall moved nielsen in 81. Tbh though, no matter how hard sanders had ridden muller had the speed to pass anyone Yes couldn't believe it Lee had been flying before hand, was good in practice but Egon hats off he deserved it no doubt.A couple of weeks later Lee rode ok in the Ole farewell and in October at some time destroyed Nielsen and a good line up to win the pride of the east i believe he broke the track record going back Muller deserved every credit for his title win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 hands up for bein off topic here, but with managers having less tactical moves in todays league, anyone agree riders/managers could go back to choosing whether they want gate 1 and 3 or 2 and 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestGorton1884 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 The riders I've actually seen ride... 1/ Ivan Mauger 2/ Ole Olsen 3/ Anders Michanek 4/ Barry Briggs 5/ Peter Collins 6/ Bruce Penhall 7/ Michael Lee 8/ Dennis Sigalos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestGorton1884 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Michael Lee was a brilliant rider , loved watching him around Hyde Road , but he wasn't in the same class as PC . imo of course 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Michael Lee was a brilliant rider , loved watching him around Hyde Road , but he wasn't in the same class as PC . imo of course Granted at HYDE RD,!!, anywhere else 6/10 Mike wins.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Granted at HYDE RD,!!, anywhere else 6/10 Mike wins.??Would have loved to see them meet at the shay at their peaks. Pc rode it very well, lee famously destroyed carter in the golden helmet in 83. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Would have loved to see them meet at the shay at their peaks. Pc rode it very well, lee famously destroyed carter in the golden helmet in 83.But Lee,s overall record at the Shay was not great i think he scored 13 from 5 for Poole there Baker beat him.Also i recon he only rode there about 7 or 8 times (if that? in his career i would fancy PC at Halifax.I think PC would beat Lee at Belle Vue, Sheffield, as well but Lee i would fancy at King,s Lynn,White City,Coventry,Swindon, Leicester and Hackney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 But Lee,s overall record at the Shay was not great i think he scored 13 from 5 for Poole there Baker beat him.Also i recon he only rode there about 7 or 8 times (if that? in his career i would fancy PC at Halifax.I think PC would beat Lee at Belle Vue, Sheffield, as well but Lee i would fancy at King,s Lynn,White City,Coventry,Swindon, Leicester and Hackney. Oh I don't know about that Sidney. PC certainly did Lee in the only two encounters I can think of at White City (1977 and 1979) To be fair they are comparable. PC applied himself and achieved pretty much what he should have. Bit of bad luck in 1975 and 1977 when he was right at the top of his game, then the shoulder injury in 1980 which effectively finished him but over ten years not a bad effort. Lee on the other hand achieved nothing like he should have done. He should have been the dominant force from 1980 through to the mid/late 80s but for whatever reasons fell apart in the year he was world champion and but for a bit of a renaissance in 1983 was finished in his very early 20s Best Brits in my book are Collins Craven and Lee. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I could not disagree on White City "Oldace,both had good records there also PC was better than Lee at Wembley( not one of his better hunting grounds).I did not see Craven ride but going by what my uncle told me listening to others opinion,s and the record he for me has to be no 1.Also who is to say he would not of won another world title he would of had a hell of a chance if he had not been robbed of his life.All in all PC and Lee had great careers still, Lee alot of his problems were down to him but he crammed alot in from 1975-83.Collins was very unlucky as i believe he was robbed of at least another three years at the top after having that crash on that unraceable Cradley track as at the time he was still a big force. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestGorton1884 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hi guys im new to the forum , so go easy on me haha ive not been to a speedway meeting for some time , but watched the Aces at Hyde Road from 1973 untll they moved to kirky lane , also strangely enough, I saw a lot of ( due to a uncle from Suffolk ) the Ipswich Witches. So im slightly biased but ,Peter Collins was the greatest English rider of his generation . he was so unlucky not to win more world titles , the horrific leg injury in 77 , springs to mind , and it wasn't just Hyde Road where he was dominant , Michael Lee brilliant , but better than PC ? ..... nah ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hi guys im new to the forum , so go easy on me haha ive not been to a speedway meeting for some time , but watched the Aces at Hyde Road from 1973 untll they moved to kirky lane , also strangely enough, I saw a lot of ( due to a uncle from Suffolk ) the Ipswich Witches. So im slightly biased but ,Peter Collins was the greatest English rider of his generation . he was so unlucky not to win more world titles , the horrific leg injury in 77 , springs to mind , and it wasn't just Hyde Road where he was dominant , Michael Lee brilliant , but better than PC ? ..... nah ! I'm with you on that one WG1884. :approve: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I'm with you on that one WG1884. :approve:Na Gorton can't agree, and who is this TWK bloke? Is he Stevie Wonder? no only joking WK a massive supporter of PC a great rider i rated him and admired him.I was not a fan god knows why because he give more excitement to the sport than anyone great rider nice bloke. Edited February 26, 2014 by sidney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishRoundabout Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 For what its worth, my opinion in relation to the Lee/Collins debate, is that Peter Collins had more natural ability. Michael Lee was fast....really fast, but Collins had supreme balance, was as brave as a lion and there was no one better at stalking and then executing perfect passes of riders in front of him. Furthermore, he was an excellent team rider too. Peter unfortunately suffered from the English disease....a poor gater..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 For what its worth, my opinion in relation to the Lee/Collins debate, is that Peter Collins had more natural ability. Michael Lee was fast....really fast, but Collins had supreme balance, was as brave as a lion and there was no one better at stalking and then executing perfect passes of riders in front of him. Furthermore, he was an excellent team rider too. Peter unfortunately suffered from the English disease....a poor gater..... I would disagree ER, saying that you know your stuff, i think PC riding at HYDE RD loved it he knew he could gate poorly and still pick riders off.THe main reason he loved the track he had every confidence in the fairness of the track and it was fair. I believe.Lee is the quickest rider if not one of the quickest riders i have ever seen he beat Crump easily 2.1 in the helmet in 84 and beat Phil half a straight Crump was a class rider then too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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