Legends What Are People's All Time Top 8.?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Which rules out riders like Jack Parker, Eric Langton and Bill Kitchen then?

And Vic Duggan..

Both Parker & Duggan won the equivalent of the World Final though in that period between '39 & '47 did they not..?

Edited January 26, 2014 by Parsloes 1928 nearly

[norbold]

 

Then you have riders like Tom Farndon who was robbed of his peak years through injury.

 

He was robbed of his peak years through death - a bit of an extreme injury!

And Vic Duggan..

Both Parker & Duggan won the equivalent of the World Final though in that period between '39 & '47 did they not..?

Parker won in 1947 and Duggan in 1948. There was a War Time British Riders' Championship from 1940 - 1945, which Eric Chitty won on three occasions.Ron Clarke, Frank Varey and Bill Kitchen were the other winners. And then the Riders' Championship, later the British Riders' Championship, from 1946 - 1948. The other winner was Tommy Price in 1946.

[waiheke1]

 

Norbold -do you know if there is a website which has the results of those meetings?

Edited January 26, 2014 by waihekeaces1

[Guest]

Norbold -do you know if there is a website which has the results of those meetings?

 

I thought you would have heard of the leading website - The Speedway Researcher?

Edited January 26, 2014 by Guest

[norbold]

Norbold -do you know if there is a website which has the results of those meetings?

As my friend, Gustix, so rudely puts it, the best place to find the full results is the Speedway Researcher website: http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/

 

Ifyou just want a summary you could try: http://www.speedwaychampions.com/national-champions-dupl.php

[Guest]

 

He was robbed of his peak years through death - a bit of an extreme injury!

Parker won in 1947 and Duggan in 1948. There was a War Time British Riders' Championship from 1940 - 1945, which Eric Chitty won on three occasions.Ron Clarke, Frank Varey and Bill Kitchen were the other winners. And then the Riders' Championship, later the British Riders' Championship, from 1946 - 1948. The other winner was Tommy Price in 1946.

 

 

Norbold -do you know if there is a website which has the results of those meetings?

 

 

 

I thought you would have heard of the leading website - The Speedway Researcher?

 

 

As my friend, Gustix, so rudely puts it, the best place to find the full results is the Speedway Researcher website: http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/

 

Ifyou just want a summary you could try: http://www.speedwaychampions.com/national-champions-dupl.php

 

I take it the comment "As my friend Gustix.." is being ironic? TBH I don't see anything rude in my reference to the Speedway Researcher website. I was a little surprised and certainly disappointed to read this remark by you Norbold.

[Gavan]

These ' who was the best' lists always come up with different answers as to who people have seen. I started going in 1982 so i wouldnt count anyone i havent seen even though the records of Fundin, Briggs and Mauger are obviously better then anyone apart from Rickardsson.

My top 8 based on who i have watched:

 

Gundersen

Nielsen

Jan O' Pedersen

Rickardsson

Ermolenko

Jonsson

Loram ( just for entertainment value alone)

Crump

[iris123]

 

 

 

 

 

 

TBH I don't see anything rude in my reference to the Speedway Researcher website. I was a little surprised and certainly disappointed to read this remark by you Norbold.

Simple answer without the 'clown' smiley would have been ok.The addition of the smiley imo and probably Norbolds,is that it is an answer with 'attitude'.

[norbold]

I take it the comment "As my friend Gustix.." is being ironic? TBH I don't see anything rude in my reference to the Speedway Researcher website. I was a little surprised and certainly disappointed to read this remark by you Norbold.

You didn't just refer to it though did you? Your implication was that waihekeaces1 was a bit stupid for not knowing about the Speedway Researcher website. Why could you have not just answered by saying, "The Speedway Researcher website"? That was all that was needed.

[stratton]

Great point Norbold it is how you put thing,s (not a strength of mine i know) but i do my best.Gustix i have really enjoyed his posts, but the Mike Bast debate wrangles on if he come clean or explained himself maybe that would help matters.!

[Guest]

You didn't just refer to it though did you? Your implication was that waihekeaces1 was a bit stupid for not knowing about the Speedway Researcher website. Why could you have not just answered by saying, "The Speedway Researcher website"? That was all that was needed.

Yes, perhaps a better style of reply on my part would have averted this little fracas.

[stratton]

Yes, perhaps a better style of reply on my part would have averted this little fracas.

What on the BAST debate? it would be great to here your real view.!

[AD1974]

OK - quick meta-analysis (I warned you I was a statto geek!) gives our definitive answer to the question for all votes!

 

1. Tony Rickardsson

2. Ivan Mauger

3. Barry Briggs

4. Hans Nielsen

5. Ove Fundin

6. Ronnie Moore

7. Jason Crump

8. Ole Olsen

 

7 of those agree with the top 8 I found based on world final performances at a rider's peak - the only other one, Ole Olsen, was placed 10th on my list.

 

Poor Nicki Pedersen is the one to miss out - down at the bottom of the second tier list...

 

9. Erik Gundersen

10. Peter Craven

11. Michael Lee

12. Bruce Penhall

13. Peter Collins

14. Vic Duggan

15. Tomasz Gollob

16. Nicki Pedersen

 

All pretty impressive names in this sort of topic - all in my top 50 based on world final performances alone. The highest rider on my list to not get any vote here was poor Bill Kitchen who did all his best work during the war years sadly.

 

Hope that makes interesting reading for you all :-)

 

Andy.

[stratton]

An impressive list Andy, am chuffed Lee is in front of Collins and Penhall agree with all of them except Pedersen he would not get in my 16.

[The White Knight]

An impressive list Andy, am chuffed Lee is in front of Collins and Penhall agree with all of them except Pedersen he would not get in my 16.

 

Lee in front of PC - NEVER!!!! in a million years sidney. :shock:

[stratton]

Lee in front of PC - NEVER!!!! in a million years sidney. :shock:

Andy says so! and the stats say so WK in world finals.Collins was a awesome rider brilliant, but Lee at his best was quick. That year in 1983 to think he was beating legends like Hans and Erik was awesome and people who see him destroy Carter 4.0 in the helmet beating him by half a lap unbelievable stuff.

[The White Knight]

Andy says so! and the stats say so WK in world finals.Collins was a awesome rider brilliant, but Lee at his best was quick. That year in 1983 to think he was beating legends like Hans and Erik was awesome and people who see him destroy Carter 4.0 in the helmet beating him by half a lap unbelievable stuff.

 

I think PC's First and Second in World Finals trumps Lee sidney.

 

I must admit to being a big PC Supporter from his Rochdale days - so perhaps I'm a tad biased my friend. :)

Edited January 28, 2014 by The White Knight

[stratton]

I think PC's First and Second in World Finals trumps Lee sidney.

 

I must admit to being a big PC Supporter from his Rochdale days - so perhaps I'm a tad biased my friend. :)

Eh up WK , Mike the Bike winner once, 3rd twice , 4th once out of 6 finals and not being biased Lee could of won 4 finals in 77, 79,80,83.Saying that PC DESERVED to win two titles i enjoyed both of they're careers WK,we were both lucky to see both of them ride bit of banter eh both superb riders. Edited January 28, 2014 by sidney

[The White Knight]

Eh up WK , Mike the Bike winner once, 3rd twice , 4th once out of 6 finals and not being biased Lee could of won 4 finals in 77, 79,80,83.Saying that PC DESERVED to win two titles i enjoyed both of they're careers WK,we were both lucky to see both of them ride bit of banter eh both superb riders.

 

Spot on sydney.

[waiheke1]

gustix, on 21 Jan 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

At best, for a fast-changing sport like speedway in my opinion the nearest we can get is to have 'best eights' for 10 year periods. The value of these is that some riders will make the crossover between eras and this surely is of more value than an 'all time top eight riders' table.

 

Something like this? Posted 18 months ago, so the 2010 list would change a bit now – but pleased that I got Tai in there!

waihekeaces1, on 13 Jun 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Ok, here's my first crack at top 10 riders by decade, starting at the 60s (I don't know enough about the 50s and prior ) and including a guess at the 2010s.

60s
Fundin Briggs Mauger Knuttson Craven Plechanov Moore Woryna Wyglenda GNorden

70s
Mauger Olsen Collins Michanek Lee Simmons Louis Autrey PlechP Crump

80s Nielsen Penhall Gundersen Lee Carter S Moran Pedersen Morton Sigalos
Knudsen

90s Rikkardson Nielsen Ermolenko Jonsson Hamil Hancock Pedersen Havelock Gollob
Knudsen

2000s Crump Rickardson Pedersen Gollob Adams Loram Hancock Sullivan
Hampel

2010s Ward Emil Holder Hancock Gollob Hampel N Pedersen Crump Dudek Tai Woffinden (here's hoping!)

 

AD1974, on 22 Jan 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

It is impossible to include league performance or results from other qualifiers and internationals but in the Gundersen/Nielsen debate they surely suggest that Nielsen was a better rider don't they?!

 

I disagree – I’m actually working on a sytsem to do exactly that - a ranking based on performances in the world final, qualifiers, internationals, league and BLRC. So far, I’ve just done 1981-1985, and the weightings need some tinkering, but it gives some interesting results. Purely for that period, you get a top five of:

1. Based on single season peak 1 Penhall(81) 2, Nielsen (85) 3. Carter (82) 4. Gundersen (83) 5. Lee (83)
2. Based on average of best three seasons 1 Penhall (two seasons only) 2 Nielsen 3 gundersen 4 Carter 5 S Moran
3. Based on cumulative scores over that period 1 Nielsen 2Gundersen 3 Carter 4 S Moran 5 Knudsen

I hope to do the same for all seasons (I did a similar thing for 2013), but is dependent on having free time to do so.

sidney, on 22 Jan 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Forget the pairs team events, Lee had a better world final record than Collins, he had six finals he was on the rostrum x2 a winner once and a fourth place.Collins had eight appearances a winner once ( very unlucky in 77) but Lee was unlucky in 83 i believe he was the best rider in the world that year on stats Lee is the better in my book.Certainly on the WF record also i know Lee was finished after 83 but he was up there easily with Nielsen,Erik,Sigalos, Penhall a new generation Peter was finished really by 80/81as a possible winner.

But why forget those events – just because PC had a better record? Lee’s record in world finals was marginally better than PC granted (better average, i’d say a gold and two bronze is fractionally better than a gold and two silver, though PC deserves credit for making more finals), but in every other respect PC’s record was better. 83 stats would suggest Lee was the third best in the world, behind Hans and Eric, though at his peak that season he was unstoppable (THAT demolition of Carter!). He only made the rostrum in the final due to Hans puncture though.

The argument that can be made in faour of Lee is not what he did achieve (PC’s achievement IMHO dwarf Lees) but what he could have achieved. when he rode that last final at Norden, he was roughly the same age as PC, Erik and Tai when they won their first titles, and younger than Penhall and Hans.

gustix, on 27 Jan 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

I thought you would have heard of the leading website - The Speedway Researcher?

Yes I am acquainted with that excellent site– however those war time meetings weren’t listed in the “special” section along with the 46-48 British Riders Champs or the World Champs, hence my query. Thanks to you and Norbold for your responses, I’ve now located them, and will peruse when I have time.

sidney, on 29 Jan 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

An impressive list Andy, am chuffed Lee is in front of Collins and Penhall agree with all of them except Pedersen he would not get in my 16.

I think Nicki has to be regarded as one of the top 16 of all time. You can’t fluke three world titles under the GP system that he has ridden under, in at least one of those seasons he was indisputably the best rider across all competitions. Nicki seems to be the most under rated multi world champ of all time. That said, he doesn’t make my own top dozen.