norbold Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Top 8 of all time? Impossible...but here goes: Vic Huxley, Tom Farndon, Vic Duggan, Jack Young, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Tony Rickardsson.... Or alternatively: Frank Arthur, Bluey Wilkinson, Jack Parker, Ronnie Moore, Peter Craven, Bjorn Knutson, Ole Olsen, Hans Nielsen Or alternatively: Eric Langton, Cordy Milne, Lionel Van Praag, Jack Milne, Peter Collins, Erik Gundersen, Bruce Penhall, Jason Crump..... Edited January 8, 2014 by norbold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Top 8 of all time? Impossible...but here goes: Vic Huxley, Tom Farndon, Vic Duggan, Jack Young, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Tony Rickardsson.... Or alternatively: Frank Arthur, Bluey Wilkinson, Jack Parker, Ronnie Moore, Peter Craven, Bjorn Knutson, Ole Olsen, Hans Nielsen Or alternatively: Eric Langton, Cordy Milne, Lionel Van Praag, Jack Milne, Peter Collins, Erik Gundersen, Bruce Penhall, Jason Crump..... I couldn't disagree with any of them Norbold. You forgot Max Grosskreutz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) I couldn't disagree with any of them Norbold. You forgot Max Grosskreutz. You may like to see the back page photo of the renowned Max Grosskreutz - who I saw ride for Bradford and Australia in 1947 - who is featured on the back page of this forum-magazine. oldtmespeedway journal, Vol 2, No.1 January 2014 https://app.box.com/...xfyg27gk7vnbeug Edited January 8, 2014 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I couldn't disagree with any of them Norbold. You forgot Max Grosskreutz.Were some of those named better WK in your opinion!! than Freddie Williams? is Freddie an unsung hero.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Were some of those named better WK in your opinion!! than Freddie Williams? is Freddie an unsung hero.? This subject will never really be resolved. So many other great names need to come into the long-time reckoning - as already mentioned by The White Knight there's Max Groskreutz (Australia). Others would include Wilbur Lamoreaux (USA), Ron Johnson (Australia), Eric Chitty and Jimmy Gibb (both of Canada), Rune Sormander (Sweden). This is a wonderful topic to debate and conjecture as to who should be included. And yes, Freddie Williams (Wales) is another very deserving candidate. Edited January 8, 2014 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Were some of those named better WK in your opinion!! than Freddie Williams? is Freddie an unsung hero.? Freddie Williams deserves to be in there too sidney. One of my Heroes who I had the privilege to actually meet. A true Gentleman too - in the truest sense of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I couldn't disagree with any of them Norbold. You forgot Max Grosskreutz. Were some of those named better WK in your opinion!! than Freddie Williams? is Freddie an unsung hero.? You're both right of course. Here's another eight then...: Max Grosskreutz, Aub Lawson, Split Waterman, Tommy Price, Freddie Williams, Anders Michanek, Nicky Pedersen, Tomasz Gollob..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 It's difficult when I have't seen some of them but: Ove Fundin Hans Nielsen Ivan Mauger Bruce Penhall Erik Gundersen Peter Craven Barry Briggs Vic Duggan All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD1974 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 As a proper statto type with an interest in history I love this sort of discussion. No real answer to it - hard to disagree with pretty much every name that's been mentioned so far. I have done a bit of analysis based on world final appearances which gives a top 8 as below - I can explain how I've done it should anybody be interested but it's a bit boring to be honest! Suffice to say it's a solid enough way of looking at it (in my opinion) but if you look at things a different way you tend to get different answers when you boil it all down to pure numbers so I would never claim this answer is better than any other! 1. Ivan Mauger 2. Ove Fundin 3. Hans Nielsen 4. Tony Rickardsson 5. Barry Briggs 6. Nicki Pedersen 7. Ronnie Moore 8. Jason Crump Should anybody be wondering where any other riders are on the list give me a shout and I'll put it on but don't forget it's based solely on world final performances and obviously there is much more to what really makes a rider the best in the world in any one season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 As a proper statto type with an interest in history I love this sort of discussion. No real answer to it - hard to disagree with pretty much every name that's been mentioned so far. I have done a bit of analysis based on world final appearances which gives a top 8 as below - I can explain how I've done it should anybody be interested but it's a bit boring to be honest! Suffice to say it's a solid enough way of looking at it (in my opinion) but if you look at things a different way you tend to get different answers when you boil it all down to pure numbers so I would never claim this answer is better than any other! 1. Ivan Mauger 2. Ove Fundin 3. Hans Nielsen 4. Tony Rickardsson 5. Barry Briggs 6. Nicki Pedersen 7. Ronnie Moore 8. Jason Crump Should anybody be wondering where any other riders are on the list give me a shout and I'll put it on but don't forget it's based solely on world final performances and obviously there is much more to what really makes a rider the best in the world in any one season. Where is Freddie Williams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) It's difficult when I have't seen some of them but: Ove Fundin Hans Nielsen Ivan Mauger Bruce Penhall Erik Gundersen Peter Craven Barry Briggs Vic Duggan All the best Rob How many haven't you seen Sam ? you really know your stuff odviously Duggan like me the great Craven and maybe Ove Fundin.? Fundin, Knutsson and Craven are the few world class stars i did not see ever ride since 1965 saying that there were a few i didn't ever see live who were class riders like Harrefeld, Nordin and Pander and the class Russian Plechonov. Edited January 17, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Passed over by many posters - Jack Parker! Edited January 20, 2014 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 before I pass on my top 8, id like to mention ermolenkos title win in 93..having been there I thort the ref handed it to him..controversy comment>,,,,fact is, he shed a chain on the 1st bend in last race, and when red lights appeared, he was clearly under power.. but my top 8 are olsen, penhall, mauger, rickardsson, gollob, sigalos, niki p, and lee..these simply cos they are wot we lack, characters and crowd pullers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD1974 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Where is Freddie Williams? Freddie is ranked 32 on the list - so would just sneak in to an all-time Semi Final by my reckoning :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD1974 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Passed over by may posters - Jack Parker! Actually Jack Parker comes out as the top Brit in the rankings I did based on world final (or nearest equivalent at the time) stats! Bill Kitchen comes out as 2nd Brit and Peter Collins then Peter Craven the highest who won an official world title. Possibly a little biased in favour of the former pair as they recorded their peak when the competition was a little less global than the latter but, as they say, you can only beat what is in front of you :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 All legends in my book and everyone have there own opinions on who were the better.But just going on stats and records in world finals this is what order the Brits would come out in.1.Craven. 10 appearances winner in 55 and 62 on the rostrum twice in 57 and 60 and fourth twice. 2.Williams 4 appearances winner in 50 and 53 also second in 52. 3.Lee. 6 appearances winner in 80 on the rostrum in 79 and 83 and fourth once in 77. 4.Collins. 8 appearances winner in 76, also second in 77. 5.Price. 4 appearances winner in 49. 6.Parker. 6 appearances Second in 49 and fourth in 37. 7.Kitchen. 3 appearances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 How many haven't you seen Sam ? you really know your stuff odviously Duggan like me the great Craven and maybe Ove Fundin.? Fundin, Knutsson and Craven are the few world class stars i did not see ever ride since 1965 saying that there were a few i didn't ever see live who were class riders like Harrefeld, Nordin and Pander and the class Russian Plechonov. Out of my list, I never saw Briggo either, and only saw Mauger in the 1980s (i.e. when he was finally on the way down). It's always tricky to do an all-time list, when you're only started to watch speedway from a certain date. In particular, I did give thought to some of the pre-war greats - Bluey Wilkinson was very close to being included. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Out of my list, I never saw Briggo either, and only saw Mauger in the 1980s (i.e. when he was finally on the way down). It's always tricky to do an all-time list, when you're only started to watch speedway from a certain date. In particular, I did give thought to some of the pre-war greats - Bluey Wilkinson was very close to being included. All the best Rob Spot on Wilkinson and Young would be in amongst the greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Spot on Wilkinson and Young would be in amongst the greats. I am sure Carl will be delighted with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) before I pass on my top 8, id like to mention ermolenkos title win in 93..having been there I thort the ref handed it to him..controversy comment>,,,,fact is, he shed a chain on the 1st bend in last race, and when red lights appeared, he was clearly under power.. but my top 8 are olsen, penhall, mauger, rickardsson, gollob, sigalos, niki p, and lee..these simply cos they are wot we lack, characters and crowd pullers Yes the oldies like Jack Parker, Vic Duggan, Bill Kitchen, Ron Johnson, Graham Warren were far from being crowd pullers! Edited January 20, 2014 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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