Legends What Are People's All Time Top 8.?

[stratton]

Here goes bloody difficult, 1.Briggs, 2.Fundin. 3.Mauger. 4.Rickardsson. 5.Olsen. 6.Nielsen. 7. Craven 8.Moore. Farndon and Duggan would be there abouts the older guys who remember them would know more.

Edited December 30, 2013 by sidney

[waiheke1]

Are u talking greatest riders, or putting together the best team. Makes a difference, as someone like peter collins who was a phenomenal team rider would likely make my list if its the latter but not if its the former

[stratton]

Are u talking greatest riders, or putting together the best team. Makes a difference, as someone like peter collins who was a phenomenal team rider would likely make my list if its the latter but not if its the former

Roll of honour,the best 8 individual riders in history.

[Guest]

Here goes bloody difficult, 1.Briggs, 2.Fundin. 3.Mauger. 4.Rickardsson. 5.Olsen. 6.Nielsen. 7. Craven 8.Moore. Farndon and Duggan would be there abouts the older guys who remember them would know more.

 

Err!!! Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux, Jimmy Gibb, Eric Langton, Jack Parker, Ron Johnson, Vic Huxley, Bluey Wilkinson? Or are they all just "yesterday's men" who along with a few others it's best we forget?

I assume in your list it's Vic Duggan and not his brother Ray?

[The White Knight]

 

Err!!! Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux, Jimmy Gibb, Eric Langton, Jack Parker, Ron Johnson, Vic Huxley, Bluey Wilkinson? Or are they all just "yesterday's men" who along with a few others it's best we forget?

I assume in your list it's Vic Duggan and not his brother Ray?

 

 

The best ten Riders that I have actually seen in action would be:

 

1) Barry Briggs

 

2) Ivan Mauger

 

3) Malcolm Simmons

 

4) Ronnie Moore

 

5) Martin Ashby

 

6) Jason Crump

 

7) Tony Rickardsson

 

8) Tomasz Gollob

 

9) Ray Wilson

 

10) Zenon Plech

 

These are in no particular order by the way.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1.Sam Ermolenko ,sam is my all time hero. A great rider and a great bloke. When i put buxtons airfence meeting on this year he was great to deal with. 2.Jan Staechmann, jan is another great bloke who i had the pleasure to ride with for stoke. 3.Tomasz Gollob ,when he is at his best he is amazing. 4 Buzz Burrows ,just generally out of control on a bike but a great bloke off it .5.Nicki Pedersen ,the gp's will be a poorer place when he retires. 6.Darcy Ward ,dont like his off track antics but he is amazing on a bike. 7. Mark Loram ,an all out action rider .8.anybody thats ever raced a speedway bike

[waiheke1]

The best ten Riders that I have actually seen in action would be:

 

1) Barry Briggs

 

2) Ivan Mauger

 

3) Malcolm Simmons

 

4) Ronnie Moore

 

5) Martin Ashby

 

6) Jason Crump

 

7) Tony Rickardsson

 

8) Tomasz Gollob

 

9) Ray Wilson

 

10) Zenon Plech

 

These are in no particular order by the way.

Plech? Ahead of collins, lee, penhall, olsen, nielsen, pedersen? I know you quantified your list by saying it was the best u had seen, but surely you have seen all of those riders? Plech was good, but would be nowhere near a top 50 of thexlast 50 years for me.

[waiheke1]

 

Err!!! Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux, Jimmy Gibb, Eric Langton, Jack Parker, Ron Johnson, Vic Huxley, Bluey Wilkinson? Or are they all just "yesterday's men" who along with a few others it's best we forget?

I assume in your list it's Vic Duggan and not his brother Ray?

 

i think people generally judge greatness on one of the three folloing criteria, or combination of them.

1. Based on personal judgement having seen riders in action. Most on here will not have seen those you list rider, nor is there sufficient video footage to establish a true judgement.

2. Based on "absolute" rsults. By which i mean, somone might judge usain bolt the greatest sprinter of all time, as he has set the world record time. this is a little more problematic in motorsports where the "athlete" is only p[art of the equaton, but i would imagine the above riders don't hold too many track records?

3. Results - ultimately i think most of us judge greatness on achievements. in speedway, the ultimate prize is the world individual champtionship - none of the riders you mention on more than one world title, many won none (i appreciate there are good reasons for this in a lot of cases).

no-ones saying forget those riders, but i think its a fact that most on here don't have any real way of establishing just how good those riders were- and now that we are in the youtube age, i think riders 70s onwards are likely to be viewed more favourably than those prior to then, simply because there is plenty of footage to view to make compairsions, allied with achievements,

 

anyway, my top 10 of all time.

1 Mauger

2 Rikkardson

3 Fundin

4 Briggs

5 Nielsen

6 J Crump

7 Olsen

8 Moore

9 Peter Collins

10 Penhall

 

Craven, Gundersenn on a different day might edge into the list.

[stratton]

i think people generally judge greatness on one of the three folloing criteria, or combination of them.

1. Based on personal judgement having seen riders in action. Most on here will not have seen those you list rider, nor is there sufficient video footage to establish a true judgement.

2. Based on "absolute" rsults. By which i mean, somone might judge usain bolt the greatest sprinter of all time, as he has set the world record time. this is a little more problematic in motorsports where the "athlete" is only p[art of the equaton, but i would imagine the above riders don't hold too many track records?

3. Results - ultimately i think most of us judge greatness on achievements. in speedway, the ultimate prize is the world individual champtionship - none of the riders you mention on more than one world title, many won none (i appreciate there are good reasons for this in a lot of cases).

no-ones saying forget those riders, but i think its a fact that most on here don't have any real way of establishing just how good those riders were- and now that we are in the youtube age, i think riders 70s onwards are likely to be viewed more favourably than those prior to then, simply because there is plenty of footage to view to make compairsions, allied with achievements,

 

anyway, my top 10 of all time.

1 Mauger

2 Rikkardson

3 Fundin

4 Briggs

5 Nielsen

6 J Crump

7 Olsen

8 Moore

9 Peter Collins

10 Penhall

 

Craven, Gundersenn on a different day might edge into the list.

Have to say that Collins and Penhall would not be in the top 10 ever (ie because Lee was better than both of them.Craven has to be in the top ten i am not sure about Collins and Penhall Collins was a great rider (1973-79 ) Penhall in Britain 1977-82 but all time top ten riders no.

[van wolfswinkel]

Best 8 I've actually seen since 1962; Fundin, Briggs, Mauger, Olsen, Nielsen, Rickardsson, J.Crump, Craven...with Adams, Moore, Knutsson, Ward, Ashby, Collins, Lee, Gundersen not far behind in second 8.

[Grachan]

Top tier - the three big ones:

 

1. Ivan Mauger

2. Tony Rickardsson

3. Ove Fundin (because I never saw him, so he had to come third)

 

Second tier:

4. Barry Briggs

5. Erik Gundersen

6. Hans Nielsen (best league rider I ever saw, but individually often came short)

7. Ole Olsen

 

Number 8. So difficult to choose 8, but I'll go with the most naturally gifted rider what I ever did see.

8. Michael Lee

[Dudleywood4eva]

Of riders i have seen ... Erik Gundersen, Bruce Penhall, Hans Nielsen, Chris Morton, Kenny Carter, Jan o Pedersen, Sam Ermolenko and (personal favourite) Phil Collins. Difficult as there have been so many over the years. The likes of Tony Rickardsson, Jason Crump, Leigh Adams, Mark Loram, Darcy Ward, Chris holder, Michael Lee, Kelly Moran, Greg Hancock, Billy Hamill and Gollob would also be on the fringes.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Dudleywood 4eva

[stratton]

Top tier - the three big ones:

 

1. Ivan Mauger

2. Tony Rickardsson

3. Ove Fundin (because I never saw him, so he had to come third)

 

Second tier:

4. Barry Briggs

5. Erik Gundersen

6. Hans Nielsen (best league rider I ever saw, but individually often came short)

7. Ole Olsen

 

Number 8. So difficult to choose 8, but I'll go with the most naturally gifted rider what I ever did see.

8. Michael Lee

Out of all the great riders since 1960s. Craven, Fundin,Knutsson were the only riders i did not see live unfortunately .By the way Grachan how did Nielsen come up short? I was never a fan and used to love it when Erik whipped his ass.But 8 rostrum places and 4 world titles beating Erik and Ole is something to be really proud of some record and longevity. Edited January 1, 2014 by sidney

[Dudleywood4eva]

Nielsen was v consistant. Used to love to hate him at the wood but it was his sheer presence that put bums on seats and anyone who managed to out muscle him on that first turn and hold on did remarkably well. A measure of how professional Hans was .. i cannot recall him having an engine failure when i saw him and extrememly rare throughout any season

[stratton]

Nielsen was v consistant. Used to love to hate him at the wood but it was his sheer presence that put bums on seats and anyone who managed to out muscle him on that first turn and hold on did remarkably well. A measure of how professional Hans was .. i cannot recall him having an engine failure when i saw him and extrememly rare throughout any season

For about 2 years i went to Oxford nearly every week when it didnt clash with Swindon.God i have forgotten how many maximums he got, and for me his partnerships with Marvyn Cox,Martin Dugard and Per Sorensen made them all better riders.Hans v Erik clashes were awesome the ones for the helmet were very special indeed.

[Dudleywood4eva]

You are quite right - for someone who was so good individually he was an excellent team man and like you say he made them better for being with him. I used to love going to Cowley and Dudley Wood in anticipation of Nielsen vs Gundersen and it didnt disapppoint. I have to say that i recall Hans often getting the better of Erik - i wouldnt mind seeing what their head to head was over the years. Erik used to get himself into breathtaking form in the weeks until the world finals. Both superb riders and a great rivalry. So sad that both tracks r now gone :-(

Edited January 1, 2014 by Dudleywood 4eva

[stratton]

You are quite right - for someone who was so good individually he was an excellent team man and like you say he made them better for being with him. I used to love going to Cowley and Dudley Wood in anticipation of Nielsen vs Gundersen and it didnt disapppoint. I have to say that i recall Hans often getting the better of Erik - i wouldnt mind seeing what their head to head was over the years. Erik used to get himself into breathtaking form in the weeks until the world finals. Both superb riders and a great rivalry. So sad that both tracks r now gone :-(

Loved Cradley i thought it looked very difficult to ride for visiting riders but it was a fine racing track.The Collins/Grahame partnership was awesome Alan in my opinion was one of the most underrated rider ever he had a proper racing brain he could be tough as well.My last visit i think to Dudley was a real tanking for Swindon(i think they scored 21 pts?). and Belle Vue (19 pts?in a double header that Cradley side was in the top 3 club sides i ever saw.

[Dudleywood4eva]

Collins and grahame were great together especially around Cradley. Al used to protect the inside while Phil used the outside. Big al was a great team man and very much an unsung hero - often scored 5 or 6 but had 2 or 3 bonus points to his name. Dont remember those particular matches but they were a great side in the 80's

[Grachan]

.By the way Grachan how did Nielsen come up short?

 

I feel he came short because, for many years, just on riding ability alone Hans Nielsen was totally in a class of his own in the British League. There was nobody who came close. When you rode against Oxford it was like winning the match if anyone in your side managed to beat him.

 

A rider of his ability should have won about 10 world titles and could have been the undisputed greatest of all time, but in world Finals he often over rode and made errors - including when he won it Poland and should have been excluded in one race for bringing off Tommy Knudsen.

 

So on World Titles alone I feel he under achieved, but as a league rider he was possibly the greatest of all time.

[stratton]

I feel he came short because, for many years, just on riding ability alone Hans Nielsen was totally in a class of his own in the British League. There was nobody who came close. When you rode against Oxford it was like winning the match if anyone in your side managed to beat him.

 

A rider of his ability should have won about 10 world titles and could have been the undisputed greatest of all time, but in world Finals he often over rode and made errors - including when he won it Poland and should have been excluded in one race for bringing off Tommy Knudsen.

 

So on World Titles alone I feel he under achieved, but as a league rider he was possibly the greatest of all time.

Good points Grachan and maybe Nielsen himself feels he underachieved on the individual front.I don't think so, for me Olsen was a better rider but only won three titles but the point you made about Nielsen overriding at times is so true.The race against Knudsen he was so lucky and i can remember the Bradford final when he was looking for Erik he made a mistake there.Also i think at Gothenburg he made a mistake there? and Kelly Moran crept through and beat him saying that 4 titles is pretty good and Erik was an outstanding rider and rival at the same time.