Peter Collins In The Star

[skthecat]

You know, despite what we say about the sport itself, do you think that the stadia that alot of clubs are based at has a detrimental effect on gaining new support?

Football at the professional end, say leagues 2, 1 & the championship and premier league have had to bring there stadiums/playing arenas into the 21st century.... And alot of speedway arenas are pretty rough and ready (I know alot of speedway clubs are in hired arenas) and have little or no control over the condition of them, but it has to put some new punters off after a first visit...

If rhis is the case, are there any solutions available to the promotors in these circumstances. ..... I don't know the answer to this one, the lifetime supporters will and do put up with this because its mostly all they know, as this aspect hasn't really changed in the last 20 years....

[orion]

 

Have you not thought that that has been done, and found to be of no real significance to the modern requirements of sport these days.

Constantly looking back serves no purpose other than to keep you in the past.

Spot on ...if they good ideas then they would have got rid of them in the first place or they would have brought them back . There was plenty of stupid rules back in the old days like the tac sub rule and how you got to a World Final etc .

[stratton]

Spot on ...if they good ideas then they would have got rid of them in the first place or they would have brought them back . There was plenty of stupid rules back in the old days like the tac sub rule and how you got to a World Final etc .

But the old World Final has served its purpose! ok it had its faults but now the GP series is just as unfair a closed shop (ie not every rider now can even enter the WC.

[Dave the Mic]

As has been pointed out many a time the old ts rule was far more a laughing stock than the new rule something that Collins makes no comment about ..hence why people say he stuck in the past .

Are you suggesting the tac sub rule where a team 6 points down could replace a rider with another in better form? I'm sure you aren't, perhaps I have misunderstood your posting. If, however, you are suggesting that rule was a laughing stock, then you can't be serious? A team member performing poorly, replaced by another on a like for like basis - doesn't that happen in the biggest sport in the world?

I don't know if you have read the whole thread but nobody has said he doesn't have something to offer. This is what SCB posted yesterday;-

 

"Nobody has said he should have no opinion. everyone is entitled to an opinion. But just because he could ride a speedway bike better than most 30-odd years ago doesn't mean he knows how to make the sport a success now "

 

He has an opinion but the trouble is some on here think it is think it is the only opinion worth listening to. .

Indeed i did. And there are those who have not only suggested he has nothing to offer (SCB wasnt one of them) but some on here also simply insulted one of the best speedway riders ever, which they should be ashamed of, regardless of his opinion being being good, bad or indifferent.

But PC argues against those changes which were made to keep others happy, and many on here oppose any change, such as bringing in the protected reserves that serves Poland and Sweden quite well. It's no good going back, it's no good either saying change things and then when they do get it opposed by the angry brigade on here.

 

The worst that can happen for speedway is try to copy speedway from 30/40 years ago, One off WC finals, uprights, black leathers, anything goes gating, wooden fences, etc. We have got to move on for the new comers as they are the future. The old timers support is of course valuable, I am one of them, but like everything in life, you have to embrace change.

Tsunami, most of the changes of a tactical nature were done simply to appease Sky, such as the green helmet cover and double points rules. The reserves plan is a good plan, but in Sweden and Poland, they are of a higher standard in most cases and many of these youngsters will trail round half a lap behind. Not that the principle isn't a good one, because clearly it is. I don't think anyone is angry with the sport as such, just the way it has been run into the ground by those in charge.

 

I don't thnk anyone is advocating a return to some of the things you refer to per se, but the reality is, much of what was good about speedway then has disappeared from the sport today and it is on its knees in many ways. Coincidence? Possibly, possibly not, but the reality is, many of the changes made have not helped one bit.

That post is a classic example of the narrow minded view that seems to prevail amongst certain blinkered fans.

 

Personally I don't like the double points rule, in fact I loath it and have said so many times on here. Nobody would be happier than me to see the back of it. But the plain fact is that various fans have come on here and said they like it and it should stay, so who am I or you, to say our opinion is better than theirs and they are wrong. They are still fans with their opinions.

 

Bottom line is, it won't stop me going to speedway.

 

You are right, the sport has been in a healthier state, but PC has apparently not suggested any new ideas, just going back to the old ones.

I'm not narrow minded, not at all. I have spoken to many outside the sport, that I have tried to introduce to it, but have lasted one meeting because some of the rules don't make any sense. I isn't about my opinion but common sense. Riders riding for two or three different teams a week for one team and against it in the same week and riders finishing second scoring more than those that win a race. Even in the GP's riders winning GP's but not scoring the most points. It's not my opinion, but those of neutral fans who haven't seen speedway and I have no argument against them, because THEY are right. And they won't go back.

 

It won't stop me either. I love speedway and that is why these kind of issues are so vital. PC didn't suggest going back, but suggested that the steps "forward" we're anything but. I suspect if someone asked him for input for some new ideas he would proffer some.

Spot on ...if they good ideas then they would have got rid of them in the first place or they would have brought them back . There was plenty of stupid rules back in the old days like the tac sub rule and how you got to a World Final etc .

So having to qualify for the World Final was stupid? Of course. And replacing an out of form rider with another in better form was stupid too. Presumably substitutes of a similar nature in football and rugby, to name two other sports, are stupid too?

 

The reasons for many of the changes made were to halt the slide in people coming through the turnstiles as it was felt something new was needed. Others were made due to the demands of Sky. The truth is, value for money has been eroded over time and we get 15 races for our £15+ now, rather than 20 plus. Perhaps if promoters actually promoted as they did many years ago and provided an evenings entertainment that represented decent value, rather than 30% less races and a watered down product at the top level, falsely called an Elite League, more people might turn up. A bit of advertising, promotion and trying to attract new fans, rather than preaching to the long converted might help a bit too.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Dave the Mic

[Tsunami]

Are you suggesting the tac sub rule where a team 6 points down could replace a rider with another in better form? I'm sure you aren't, perhaps I have misunderstood your posting. If, however, you are suggesting that rule was a laughing stock, then you can't be serious? A team member performing poorly, replaced by another on a like for like basis - doesn't that happen in the biggest sport in the world?

Indeed i did. And there are those who have not only suggested he has nothing to offer (SCB wasnt one of them) but some on here also simply insulted one of the best speedway riders ever, which they should be ashamed of, regardless of his opinion being being good, bad or indifferent.

Tsunami, most of the changes of a tactical nature were done simply to appease Sky, such as the green helmet cover and double points rules. The reserves plan is a good plan, but in Sweden and Poland, they are of a higher standard in most cases and many of these youngsters will trail round half a lap behind. Not that the principle isn't a good one, because clearly it is. I don't think anyone is angry with the sport as such, just the way it has been run into the ground by those in charge.

 

I don't thnk anyone is advocating a return to some of the things you refer to per se, but the reality is, much of what was good about speedway then has disappeared from the sport today and it is on its knees in many ways. Coincidence? Possibly, possibly not, but the reality is, many of the changes made have not helped one bit.

I'm not narrow minded, not at all. I have spoken to many outside the sport, that I have tried to introduce to it, but have lasted one meeting because some of the rules don't make any sense. I isn't about my opinion but common sense. Riders riding for two or three different teams a week for one team and against it in the same week and riders finishing second scoring more than those that win a race. Even in the GP's riders winning GP's but not scoring the most points. It's not my opinion, but those of neutral fans who haven't seen speedway and I have no argument against them, because THEY are right. And they won't go back.

 

It won't stop me either. I love speedway and that is why these kind of issues are so vital. PC didn't suggest going back, but suggested that the steps "forward" we're anything but. I suspect if someone asked him for input for some new ideas he would proffer some.

So having to qualify for the World Final was stupid? Of course. And replacing an out of form rider with another in better form was stupid too. Presumably substitutes of a similar nature in football and rugby, to name two other sports, are stupid too?

 

The reasons for many of the changes made were to halt the slide in people coming through the turnstiles as it was felt something new was needed. Others were made due to the demands of Sky. The truth is, value for money has been eroded over time and we get 15 races for our £15+ now, rather than 20 plus. Perhaps if promoters actually promoted as they did many years ago and provided an evenings entertainment that represented decent value, rather than 30% less races and a watered down product at the top level, falsely called an Elite League, more people might turn up. A bit of advertising, promotion and trying to attract new fans, rather than preaching to the long converted might help a bit too.

[Ray Stadia]

 

Are you suggesting the tac sub rule where a team 6 points down could replace a rider with another in better form? I'm sure you aren't, perhaps I have misunderstood your posting. If, however, you are suggesting that rule was a laughing stock, then you can't be serious? A team member performing poorly, replaced by another on a like for like basis - doesn't that happen in the biggest sport in the world?

Indeed i did. And there are those who have not only suggested he has nothing to offer (SCB wasnt one of them) but some on here also simply insulted one of the best speedway riders ever, which they should be ashamed of, regardless of his opinion being being good, bad or indifferent.

Tsunami, most of the changes of a tactical nature were done simply to appease Sky, such as the green helmet cover and double points rules. The reserves plan is a good plan, but in Sweden and Poland, they are of a higher standard in most cases and many of these youngsters will trail round half a lap behind. Not that the principle isn't a good one, because clearly it is. I don't think anyone is angry with the sport as such, just the way it has been run into the ground by those in charge.

 

I don't thnk anyone is advocating a return to some of the things you refer to per se, but the reality is, much of what was good about speedway then has disappeared from the sport today and it is on its knees in many ways. Coincidence? Possibly, possibly not, but the reality is, many of the changes made have not helped one bit.

I'm not narrow minded, not at all. I have spoken to many outside the sport, that I have tried to introduce to it, but have lasted one meeting because some of the rules don't make any sense. I isn't about my opinion but common sense. Riders riding for two or three different teams a week for one team and against it in the same week and riders finishing second scoring more than those that win a race. Even in the GP's riders winning GP's but not scoring the most points. It's not my opinion, but those of neutral fans who haven't seen speedway and I have no argument against them, because THEY are right. And they won't go back.

 

It won't stop me either. I love speedway and that is why these kind of issues are so vital. PC didn't suggest going back, but suggested that the steps "forward" we're anything but. I suspect if someone asked him for input for some new ideas he would proffer some.

So having to qualify for the World Final was stupid? Of course. And replacing an out of form rider with another in better form was stupid too. Presumably substitutes of a similar nature in football and rugby, to name two other sports, are stupid too?

 

The reasons for many of the changes made were to halt the slide in people coming through the turnstiles as it was felt something new was needed. Others were made due to the demands of Sky. The truth is, value for money has been eroded over time and we get 15 races for our £15+ now, rather than 20 plus. Perhaps if promoters actually promoted as they did many years ago and provided an evenings entertainment that represented decent value, rather than 30% less races and a watered down product at the top level, falsely called an Elite League, more people might turn up. A bit of advertising, promotion and trying to attract new fans, rather than preaching to the long converted might help a bit too.

 

Good post Mr T!

Good post Mr T!

Too much bucks fizz?

Edited December 25, 2013 by Ray Stadia

[Tsunami]

Thanks for your balanced reply Dave. Many good points that I also agree with.

BTW the green helmet was not at the request of SKY. There was going to be software produced and a virtual race produced with graphics from equipment on the bikes and at the track. The green helmet cover was required for punters to use their remotes in the the UK and especially the Far East for betting. I saw the demo of it and it did look promising but never delivered

[Dave the Mic]

I did wonder Ray!

Thanks for your balanced reply Dave. Many good points that I also agree with.

BTW the green helmet was not at the request of SKY. There was going to be software produced and a virtual race produced with graphics from equipment on the bikes and at the track. The green helmet cover was required for punters to use their remotes in the the UK and especially the Far East for betting. I saw the demo of it and it did look promising but never delivered

No problem. And thanks. I always try to see more than just my own POV, sadly not everyone on here can say the same! Interesting what you say about the green helmet. I was under the impression it was for them to use it with "SkyBet" so the colours coordinated? Obviously not and thanks for your input.

[orion]

Are you suggesting the tac sub rule where a team 6 points down could replace a rider with another in better form? I'm sure you aren't, perhaps I have misunderstood your posting. If, however, you are suggesting that rule was a laughing stock, then you can't be serious? A team member performing poorly, replaced by another on a like for like basis - doesn't that happen in the biggest sport in the world?

Indeed i did. And there are those who have not only suggested he has nothing to offer (SCB wasnt one of them) but some on here also simply insulted one of the best speedway riders ever, which they should be ashamed of, regardless of his opinion being being good, bad or indifferent.

Tsunami, most of the changes of a tactical nature were done simply to appease Sky, such as the green helmet cover and double points rules. The reserves plan is a good plan, but in Sweden and Poland, they are of a higher standard in most cases and many of these youngsters will trail round half a lap behind. Not that the principle isn't a good one, because clearly it is. I don't think anyone is angry with the sport as such, just the way it has been run into the ground by those in charge.

 

I don't thnk anyone is advocating a return to some of the things you refer to per se, but the reality is, much of what was good about speedway then has disappeared from the sport today and it is on its knees in many ways. Coincidence? Possibly, possibly not, but the reality is, many of the changes made have not helped one bit.

I'm not narrow minded, not at all. I have spoken to many outside the sport, that I have tried to introduce to it, but have lasted one meeting because some of the rules don't make any sense. I isn't about my opinion but common sense. Riders riding for two or three different teams a week for one team and against it in the same week and riders finishing second scoring more than those that win a race. Even in the GP's riders winning GP's but not scoring the most points. It's not my opinion, but those of neutral fans who haven't seen speedway and I have no argument against them, because THEY are right. And they won't go back.

 

It won't stop me either. I love speedway and that is why these kind of issues are so vital. PC didn't suggest going back, but suggested that the steps "forward" we're anything but. I suspect if someone asked him for input for some new ideas he would proffer some.

So having to qualify for the World Final was stupid? Of course. And replacing an out of form rider with another in better form was stupid too. Presumably substitutes of a similar nature in football and rugby, to name two other sports, are stupid too?

 

The reasons for many of the changes made were to halt the slide in people coming through the turnstiles as it was felt something new was needed. Others were made due to the demands of Sky. The truth is, value for money has been eroded over time and we get 15 races for our £15+ now, rather than 20 plus. Perhaps if promoters actually promoted as they did many years ago and provided an evenings entertainment that represented decent value, rather than 30% less races and a watered down product at the top level, falsely called an Elite League, more people

Of course it's stupid to replaced a rider with a better one when you fall behind ..I think nearly every speedway fans thinks the same and of the course how you got to one off world final was stupid as there was no way that the 16 riders ever had a fair chance and all World Finals ended with 4 or 5 no hopers and some times even more ..so as I said there were just as many stupid rules back then, of course the old school can't see or won't accept that .

[Dave the Mic]

Of course it's stupid to replaced a rider with a better one when you fall behind ..I think nearly every speedway fans thinks the same and of the course how you got to one off world final was stupid as there was no way that the 16 riders ever had a fair chance and all World Finals ended with 4 or 5 no hopers and some times even more ..so as I said there were just as many stupid rules back then, of course the old school can't see or won't accept that .

Is it? How silly of me to think that in almost any team sport on the planet, you have the opportunity to make changes to your team to try and reduce a deficit and in many you can make tactical changes when winning too. they are all wrong are they? I'll let FIFA, UEFA, the FA and football league know, along with the governing bodies in ice hockey, both rugby codes and field hockey know, so they can amend the rules for you. And you think every speedway fan thinks the same do you? Really? How many of these have you asked?

 

And regarding the qualification system for world finals, who said it was perfect? Not me, but at least many, many riders had the chance to QUALIFY, rather than now when most are hand picked and only a handful of riders have the opportunity to even attempt to qualify - and even then, only for the following year. Of course the GP is so much better, isn't it? I think he was a truly great rider, but how can it be right that when Mark Loram wins the world championship without winning a single GP. in addition, if you believe many on this forum, half the field in the GP series have no chance of winning the title, which makes them no hopers too. Perhaps if we just have 8 riders in the world championship, hand picked every year, that would be perfect.

 

Based on your logic, Egon Muller, Jerzy Szczakiel and Tai Woffinden would not have won their world titles, all of which were deserved - and riders like Eddie Jancarz, Igor Plechanov, Antonin Woryna, Bernt Persson, Gordon Kennett and Tommy Knudsen to name a few, would never had reached the rostrum in World Finals, as they certainly wouldn't have been picked, but they did qualify and deserved their top three placing. Likewise, how about Grigori Chlynovski, who was controversially excluded in the farcical end to the '73 world final and Viktor Kuznetsov, who scored double figures at Katowice in '86, beating Gundersen, Nilsen and Morton among others.They raced through several rounds to get to the final and performed brilliantly. By your measure, they wouldn't even have been there. And there are others too.

 

Further, only the hosts - not the holders anymore - are seeded to the football World Cup nowadays and every single athlete that gets to the Olympics has to go through a qualification procedure. No one is there by right, why should speedway be any different.

 

What you suggest is that the two biggest sporting organisations on the planet, FIFA and the IOC have got it wrong too. Of course they have!

Edited December 25, 2013 by Dave the Mic

[Tsunami]

DtC

 

If PC is against all the main changes that have been brought in in later decades, it can only mean

A, he wants to return to the 'good old days' which his supporters on this thread seem to think he meant ,or,

B, he has some other suppa duppa solutions that he is keeping to himself.

 

As that guy from Sunderland keeps saying "You decide"

[orion]

Is it? How silly of me to think that in almost any team sport on the planet, you have the opportunity to make changes to your team to try and reduce a deficit and in many you can make tactical changes when winning too. they are all wrong are they? I'll let FIFA, UEFA, the FA and football league know, along with the governing bodies in ice hockey, both rugby codes and field hockey know, so they can amend the rules for you. And you think every speedway fan thinks the same do you? Really? How many of these have you asked?

 

And regarding the qualification system for world finals, who said it was perfect? Not me, but at least many, many riders had the chance to QUALIFY, rather than now when most are hand picked and only a handful of riders have the opportunity to even attempt to qualify - and even then, only for the following year. Of course the GP is so much better, isn't it? I think he was a truly great rider, but how can it be right that when Mark Loram wins the world championship without winning a single GP. in addition, if you believe many on this forum, half the field in the GP series have no chance of winning the title, which makes them no hopers too. Perhaps if we just have 8 riders in the world championship, hand picked every year, that would be perfect.

 

Based on your logic, Egon Muller, Jerzy Szczakiel and Tai Woffinden would not have won their world titles, all of which were deserved - and riders like Eddie Jancarz, Igor Plechanov, Antonin Woryna, Bernt Persson, Gordon Kennett and Tommy Knudsen to name a few, would never had reached the rostrum in World Finals, as they certainly wouldn't have been picked, but they did qualify and deserved their top three placing. Likewise, how about Grigori Chlynovski, who was controversially excluded in the farcical end to the '73 world final and Viktor Kuznetsov, who scored double figures at Katowice in '86, beating Gundersen, Nilsen and Morton among others.They raced through several rounds to get to the final and performed brilliantly. By your measure, they wouldn't even have been there. And there are others too.

 

Further, only the hosts - not the holders anymore - are seeded to the football World Cup nowadays and every single athlete that gets to the Olympics has to go through a qualification procedure. No one is there by right, why should speedway be any different.

 

What you suggest is that the two biggest sporting organisations on the planet, FIFA and the IOC have got it wrong too. Of course they have!

Sorry maybe I miss it but what other sport can you changed your side for the better when your a certain amount of points or goals behind ? in football ,rugby etc you can changed your side at any time so your point is void ..Were the 16 there on merit in every one of the one off world finals ? The gp system might be unfair but that does not make the old system correct . As I pointed out it was stupid as it allowed no hopers who had no right to be there get in it for every Muller you had 5 hopeless ones who should not be there ...So as said some stupid rules now but there were just as many stupid rules in the Collins days .

Edited December 25, 2013 by orion

[stratton]

Is it? How silly of me to think that in almost any team sport on the planet, you have the opportunity to make changes to your team to try and reduce a deficit and in many you can make tactical changes when winning too. they are all wrong are they? I'll let FIFA, UEFA, the FA and football league know, along with the governing bodies in ice hockey, both rugby codes and field hockey know, so they can amend the rules for you. And you think every speedway fan thinks the same do you? Really? How many of these have you asked?

And regarding the qualification system for world finals, who said it was perfect? Not me, but at least many, many riders had the chance to QUALIFY, rather than now when most are hand picked and only a handful of riders have the opportunity to even attempt to qualify - and even then, only for the following year. Of course the GP is so much better, isn't it? I think he was a truly great rider, but how can it be right that when Mark Loram wins the world championship without winning a single GP. in addition, if you believe many on this forum, half the field in the GP series have no chance of winning the title, which makes them no hopers too. Perhaps if we just have 8 riders in the world championship, hand picked every year, that would be perfect.

Based on your logic, Egon Muller, Jerzy Szczakiel and Tai Woffinden would not have won their world titles, all of which were deserved - and riders like Eddie Jancarz, Igor Plechanov, Antonin Woryna, Bernt Persson, Gordon Kennett and Tommy Knudsen to name a few, would never had reached the rostrum in World Finals, as they certainly wouldn't have been picked, but they did qualify and deserved their top three placing. Likewise, how about Grigori Chlynovski, who was controversially excluded in the farcical end to the '73 world final and Viktor Kuznetsov, who scored double figures at Katowice in '86, beating Gundersen, Nilsen and Morton among others.They raced through several rounds to get to the final and performed brilliantly. By your measure, they wouldn't even have been there. And there are others too.

Further, only the hosts - not the holders anymore - are seeded to the football World Cup nowadays and every single athlete that gets to the Olympics has to go through a qualification procedure. No one is there by right, why should speedway be any different.

What you suggest is that the two biggest sporting organisations on the planet, FIFA and the IOC have got it wrong too. Of course they have!

. A great post Dave, you are like me we both liked the Old Finals and we were both very lucky to see them.You also seem to acknowledge that things have moved on and you have also said like me that things were not always perfect back then.The GP series i have come around to liking it,but at some of the rounds i do get bored with it.The old World FInals what i liked about it there was a chance for the UNDERDOG national league riders could pitch in with the big boys they were involved.Now dress it up as much as you like it is a closed shop in reality,and your best point being we all know they're are a few in the field now like years ago that have zilch chance of winning the championship.In my memory i think JERZY was the only winner who in my mind didnt deserve to win a title.Even Egon who we all knew was a great motorcyclist deserved to win on the day he was the best.So in all those years of the old WC maybe? we had 1 undeserved winner that isn't bad is it all the true greats won with a load along the way that were unlucky.

[orion]

. A great post Dave, you are like me we both liked the Old Finals and we were both very lucky to see them.You also seem to acknowledge that things have moved on and you have also said like me that things were not always perfect back then.The GP series i have come around to liking it,but at some of the rounds i do get bored with it.The old World FInals what i liked about it there was a chance for the UNDERDOG national league riders could pitch in with the big boys they were involved.Now dress it up as much as you like it is a closed shop in reality,and your best point being we all know they're are a few in the field now like years ago that have zilch chance of winning the championship.In my memory i think JERZY was the only winner who in my mind didnt deserve to win a title.Even Egon who we all knew was a great motorcyclist deserved to win on the day he was the best.So in all those years of the old WC maybe? we had 1 undeserved winner that isn't bad is it all the true greats won with a load along the way that were unlucky.

Wrong as in one Off World final many a time a bad draw would leave you with two bad gates giving you little chance of winning ...most of the time it was a Lottery ..this is what I mean about old fans can't find nothing wrong with the old days. this is a classic example .

[moxey63]

Sorry I started this thread now. PC said his opinions and people are asking... if he pays to get in, he isn't a promoter so shouldn't have a say, and that there were just as many silly rules when PC was active...

 

Give your collective heads a wobble. How many of those brandy snacks have you had?

 

Fans who are prepared to stick with the way speedway is... well, they are still on the terraces, every race night. Ignore what the likes of my mate PC and me have to say.

 

Meanwhile, while you're looking for the "ignore" options, ask... where have all the fans gone that took one rule change, one piss-take too many... and have theri own reasons for not attending.

 

Fans who see nothing wrong with the sport are probably there every week, happy to pay the £17... until something appears not quite right.

 

The fans who regularly attend... there's no need to change rules to keep theri interest

 

It's the ones that make least noise... and just disappear... that the sport should be concerned over.

 

Although I don't attend any more, lucky for you lot... I have nowt better to do and will post here until I'm pushing daisies. But others have long gone... and we have annual cries for help from clubs that need an imput of funds to keep running.

 

I mean... PC was active in speedway's golden era. He isn't slagging off the sport but says what he doesn't like about it nowadays.

 

Obviosuly it's another case of "Don't call my sport.... it's my loved one. I'll fight you on the streets... or, at the minimum, I'll clench my fist at you on this Speedway Forum."

 

PC is one of us, he's stood on the terraces, and he's raced, and ran his own club. But his views are not important, because he doesn't pay to get in...

 

Rewind back, and PC is talking about the days we've agreed... to when his exploits were worth the admission fee alone. How do memories fade over time? I'm fed up now.

 

Somebody then questions why he's not like other ex-riders, why he hasn't put his mouth where is money is.... why he isn't running his own speedway gaff.

 

But... maybe he's wiser than that, refusing to flush away his hard-earned cash into a sport... that is basically run by a bunch of people with all the power to make silly rules... that have probably driven more people away than they have attracted.

Edited December 25, 2013 by moxey63

[stratton]

Wrong as in one Off World final many a time a bad draw would leave you with two bad gates giving you little chance of winning ...most of the time it was a Lottery ..this is what I mean about old fans can't find nothing wrong with the old days. this is a classic example .

Did you go to many Finals? are you telling me in the series now? the gate positions now at times are not a lottery.Also like other oldies on here, we are not old fans we have not stopped going i have also said they're are alot of good things in speedway now but they're are certain thing,s in the past that were good also.

Sorry I started this thread now. PC said his opinions and people are asking... if he pays to get in, he isn't a promoter so shouldn't have a say, and that there were just as many silly rules when PC was active...

 

Give your collective heads a wobble. How many of those brandy snacks have you had?

 

Fans who are prepared to stick with the way speedway is... well, they are still on the terraces, every race night. Ignore what the likes of my mate PC and me have to say.

 

Meanwhile, while you're looking for the "ignore" options, ask... where have all the fans gone that took one rule change, one piss-take too many... and have theri own reasons for not attending.

 

Fans taht see nothing wrong with the sport are probably there every week. No need for promoters to change rules, teams etc every season just to keep them interested. It's the ones, like in an accident, that make least noise and just disappear away from attending that the sport should be concerned over.

 

Although I don't attend any more, lucky for you lot I have nowt better to do and will post here until I'm pushing daisies. But others have long gone... and we have annual cries for help from clubs that need an imput of funds to keep running.

 

I mean... PC was active in speedway's golden era. He isn't slagging off the sport but says what he doesn't like about it nowadays.

 

Obviosuly it's another case of "Don't call my sport.... it's my loved one. I'll fight you on the streets... or, at the minimum, I'll clench my fist at you on this Speedway Forum."

 

PC is one of us, he's stood on the terraces, and he's raced, and ran his own club. But his views are not important, because he doesn't pay to get in...

 

Rewind back, and PC is talking about the days we've agreed... to when his exploits were worth the admission fee alone. How do memories fade over time? I'm fed up now.

 

Somebody then questions why he's not like other ex-riders, why he hasn't put his mouth where is money is.... why he isn't running his own speedway gaff.

 

But... maybe he's wiser than that, refusing to flush away his hard-earned cash into a sport... that is basically run by a bunch of people with all the power to make silly rules... that have probably driven more people away than they have attracted.

Why be sorry? a great thread different OPINIONS which is what this forum is all about.

[moxey63]

Did you go to many Finals? are you telling me in the series now? the gate positions now at times are not a lottery.Also like other oldies on here, we are not old fans we have not stopped going i have also said they're are alot of good things in speedway now but they're are certain thing,s in the past that were good also.

Why be sorry? a great thread different OPINIONS which is what this forum is all about.

 

I am sorry... really sorry that people are actually willing to bail out on PC, just cos he said something that's caused them to suffer a little belly gurgle. As you say... it's about opinions... and PC was just expressing his.

[orion]

 

I am sorry... really sorry that people are actually willing to bail out on PC, just cos he said something that's caused them to suffer a little belly gurgle. As you say... it's about opinions... and PC was just expressing his.

And people are expressing there opinions on what he said ... but for some reason you have a problem with it .

[moxey63]

And people are expressing there opinions on what he said ... but for some reason you have a problem with it .

 

 

Don't have a problem at all. I, sir, was the gentleman who put it up for debate.

 

One too many brandy sticks, is it?

 

Carry on...

[Dave the Mic]

Sorry maybe I miss it but what other sport can you changed your side for the better when your a certain amount of points or goals behind ? in football ,rugby etc you can changed your side at any time so your point is void ..Were the 16 there on merit in every one of the one off world finals ? The gp system might be unfair but that does not make the old system correct . As I pointed out it was stupid as it allowed no hopers who had no right to be there get in it for every Muller you had 5 hopeless ones who should not be there ...So as said some stupid rules now but there were just as many stupid rules in the Collins days .

Football, both rugby codes, ice and field hockey, NFL. That enough? The point you can change your side at any time regardless of being in front or behind is exactly the point. So my point isn't void. In any case, you can bring a reserve in a any time in speedway, even if you are 20 in front. So the difference is?

 

Regarding world finals, the point is, they had qualified on merit because they qualified. Im not saying the new system is incorrect, nor the old one, both are flawed, but your argument was that the new system was fairer. How can it be, when there is an arbitrary committee who decides some of the field? Much as i am delighted he won, Tai Woffinden would not have been in the 2013 series on merit. The no hopers you refer to I suspect are Eastern European riders. Mmmm, well that's an interesting one. Perhaps you just looked at a period of time in World Fianls when Eastern European riders didn't do so well, especially at Wembley, for example. However, when finals were staged in Eastern Europe, there were many riders from Europe whom outscored riders who had qualified from the west. Don't dismiss the point as invalid as you can't quote examples. Plenty of "more deserving riders" bombed out in world finals and indeed in the qualifiers.

 

There is a qualification procedure for major championships in every sport and big names sometimes fall by the wayside during the process. Does it devalue the championship? No, it's part of the competition. What you advocate is a committee choosing the top 16 riders on the basis that they are the best. So no one else gets a chance. Brilliant.

 

I don't remember anyone saying that the rule book has never had flaws, of course it has, but the rule changes we have seen in recent years have been more to do with promoters trying to shore up a failing system, in part, due to their own failings. The sport is a great one, the basic product the same. It just isn't run right these days and what PC is advocating is looking at the rule changes as they haven't halted the slide. Unless of course you can tell us differently.