Peter Collins In The Star

[Dave the Mic]

Obviously, he's lying as he has so much to gain by doing so, hasn't he? 25 years on. Please.

[orion]

There you go making up bollox again, what is wrong with you man, have you been on the wacky baccy or something?

 

A bit like the other bollox you posted in this thread you couldn't explain it as you were probably mashed when you typed it.

 

Anyway, go on then NAME THEM!

 

Ha ha!

Hook the duck ..a prize every time

[george.m]

There you go making up bollox again, what is wrong with you man, have you been on the wacky baccy or something?

 

A bit like the other bollox you posted in this thread you couldn't explain it as you were probably mashed when you typed it.

 

Anyway, go on then NAME THEM!

 

Ha ha!

 

Love it!

[nw42]

I am not sure if this maybe of any help: My wife runs a tribute Peter Collins group on Facebook (with his approval). Last year sometime he agreed to a Q&A with the members. 20 Questions were put to him. He is not on the internet so the questions were printed off and given to him by Steve Hartley.

 

 

Thanks for posting this, thanks also to your wife for the tribute page, I've spent hours looking at the pictures on there, the ones of PC I mean, not your wife, just saying.

 

With the sort of stuff below being posted I'm glad Peter isn't on the internet, no need for it at all.

 

Yea course he did ..reading the interview he like to praise himself a lot but of course when Belle Vue were Bottom not only did he walk away he blamed others rather than himself .

 

Self praise, give your head a wobble, you obviously know nothing about the man, nothing.

[bellevueace]

 

You say TV coverage has not had an effect on crowds. If we are to take that point seriously could you show us :

 

1. Where you got the figures from to deduce this? I never knew speedway attendances were published.

2. Where we can see what the forecasted crowd figures without TV are so we can compare these with the actual ones?

 

How else can we tell if TV coverage has had an effect?

 

 

Not referring to you in these points below bellevueace.

 

I cannot understand how some on here think about the general interest in speedway.

You are clearly missing the point.

People viewing speedway is not measured by crowd figures alone.

It is an aggregate of TV audience and crowds.

So in the "good old days", the viewing figure was the aggregate of all the crowd figures in week/month/season.

 

Nowadays we need to add the TV audience to this figure.

Because that is how many people are watching/interested in speedway is measured.

I'm fairly confident, today's total figure is much higher than the "good old days".

 

I'd even go as far as saying the general level of interest in speedway is higher nowadays than in the past.

Shock horror!

How could it not be with all the TV coverage we are now lucky to have?

 

It seems to me the "good old days" are just a mental state of mind of forum members of a certain vintage!

 

Well I have news for those who think the past was better.

 

You've had your "golden years".

For many of us this is our "golden years" .... our "good old days".

And I for one love every minute of going to speedway, smelling it, hearing it.

I love every minute of being able to watch it on two TV channels, sometimes as much as two meetings a week.

So if you don't like it fine.

 

But move over and let the rest of us who have a more positive outlook on life get to the trackside and see the action without you blocking the view and making more noise than four 500cc GM engines!

Well George i dont know about you but i dont need published figures in order to note the decline in attendance figures, at BV for example going back to before the sky deals theres no doubt attendances were better than what they are now with the coverage of the elite league. I follow speedway around the country and the attendances have obviously dropped off, along with promoters admitting they continue to make losses each season, the sparse crowds are obvious. We can see the crowd figures given for the sports biggest meeting at Cardiff each season and the crowds for that have dropped off if the latest figures are to be believed, the stadium only barely sells half the capacity, ive no doubt many stay at home to watch it on the tv which i would say is detrimental in so much as it affects the figures of people coming through the gate, same as a televised league match, i know many who rather than pay on the turnstiles stay at home to watch it on the tele, if sky,s influence was so great we would deninately see a result of that with increased crowds at matches, you only have to look around you to see thats not the case. The actual product wasnt broken and the constant changes the sport has undergone have certainly not proved to be popular in general with the decline in attendances.

Edited December 31, 2013 by bellevueace

[george.m]

Well George i dont know about you but i dont need published figures in order to note the decline in attendance figures, at BV for example going back to before the sky deals theres no doubt attendances were better than what they are now with the coverage of the elite league. I follow speedway around the country and the attendances have obviously dropped off, along with promoters admitting they continue to make losses each season, the sparse crowds are obvious. We can see the crowd figures given for the sports biggest meeting at Cardiff each season and the crowds for that have dropped off if the latest figures are to be believed, the stadium only barely sells half the capacity, ive no doubt many stay at home to watch it on the tv which i would say is detrimental in so much as it affects the figures of people coming through the gate, same as a televised league match, i know many who rather than pay on the turnstiles stay at home to watch it on the tele, if sky,s influence was so great we would deninately see a result of that with increased crowds at matches, you only have to look around you to see thats not the case. The actual product wasnt broken and the constant changes the sport has undergone have certainly not proved to be popular in general with the decline in attendances.

Ah right, so we're not talking factually then.

More Jackanory.

Sorted.

[bellevueace]

Ah right, so we're not talking factually then.

More Jackanory.

Sorted.

What a stupid reply, standing on the terraces and seeing with your own eyes is fact, no doubt if you stand on the terrace at your own track and your promotion release an attendance figure of 4.000 you would believe it? And is the published Cardiff figure not fact? No doubt in your world speedway attendances are booming?

[Ray Stadia]

What a stupid reply, standing on the terraces and seeing with your own eyes is fact, no doubt if you stand on the terrace at your own track and your promotion release an attendance figure of 4.000 you would believe it? And is the published Cardiff figure not fact? No doubt in your world speedway attendances are booming?

I am nearing the end of reading Len Silver's book and what a good read it is, in my opinion, but he says he had to get out of Hackney because he was losing money with crowds of 1,800, when he gave up his promotion. Now that was in 1983, which to my mind was still a fairly 'golden era'. I was surprised, but in fairness, he does say that the owners of the stadium then, Brent Walker, were screwing him on rent etc.

[george.m]

What a stupid reply, standing on the terraces and seeing with your own eyes is fact, no doubt if you stand on the terrace at your own track and your promotion release an attendance figure of 4.000 you would believe it? And is the published Cardiff figure not fact? No doubt in your world speedway attendances are booming?

What a stupid reply.

You are measuring attendances at how many tracks and including what TV viewing figures?

 

No, let's ignore how to measure things accurately for the sake of sticking to a point.

However, you are the marketing and market research expert so you know best.

Multi-national companies and advertising agencies around the world take note and stop spending billions on research, advertising and publicity.

You stupid people have been wasting your money all these years. An unqualified member of a speedway forum knows better than you .....

TV coverage is bad for sales!!!

 

Monster Energy take note and withdraw your sponsorship of all TV speedway events now!!!!!

 

Well I have done some research of my own.

Watching the online videos of the "good old days" I see there's a lot of cloth flat caps and mackintoshes in the crowd.

Going on the "Flat Cap and Mackintosh" website, they are blaming the massive decline in sales nowadays on SKY's speedway coverage.

 

Funnily enough, I thought it was just a sign of the times.

Their products just don't have the same mass market appeal.

Never mind they have Sunday drivers to sell their products to.

 

Over to you Sir Alan Sugar.

[bellevueace]

What a stupid reply.

You are measuring attendances at how many tracks and including what TV viewing figures?

 

No, let's ignore how to measure things accurately for the sake of sticking to a point.

However, you are the marketing and market research expert so you know best.

Multi-national companies and advertising agencies around the world take note and stop spending billions on research, advertising and publicity.

You stupid people have been wasting your money all these years. An unqualified member of a speedway forum knows better than you .....

TV coverage is bad for sales!!!

 

Monster Energy take note and withdraw your sponsorship of all TV speedway events now!!!!!

 

Well I have done some research of my own.

Watching the online videos of the "good old days" I see there's a lot of cloth flat caps and mackintoshes in the crowd.

Going on the "Flat Cap and Mackintosh" website, they are blaming the massive decline in sales nowadays on SKY's speedway coverage.

 

Funnily enough, I thought it was just a sign of the times.

Their products just don't have the same mass market appeal.

Never mind they have Sunday drivers to sell their products to.

 

Over to you Sir Alan Sugar.

At one time on this forum people could debate in a freindly manner, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I follow a non league football club with average gates of around 140 last week we played fc united which pulled in 1008 do you seriously think anyone with half a brain cant see the difference? Anyway the this shows how productive tv is

 

http://www.methanolpress.com/catastrophic-further-collapse-in-cardiff-speedway-grand-prix-viewing-figures-contributes-to-dramatic-further-decline-in-overall-british-audience/

Can you provide factual figures of skys audience rising year on year?http://www.methanolpress.com/tag/sky-sports-speedway-viewing-figures/

As you are so obsessed with official figures heres another

Edited December 31, 2013 by bellevueace

[george.m]

At one time on this forum people could debate in a freindly manner but nowadays aggressive posts are the norm, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I follow a non league football club with average gates of around 140 last week we played fc united which pulled in 1008 do you seriously think anyone with half a brain cant see the difference? Anyway the this shows how productive tv is

 

http://www.methanolpress.com/catastrophic-further-collapse-in-cardiff-speedway-grand-prix-viewing-figures-contributes-to-dramatic-further-decline-in-overall-british-audience/

I agree. And remind me who used the word "stupid" first?

[ch958]

i wish this thread would end

 

old rider has opinions

 

some agree

 

some disagree

 

happy new year

[E I Addio]

Well George i dont know about you but i dont need published figures in order to note the decline in attendance figures, at BV for example going back to before the sky deals theres no doubt attendances were better than what they are now with the coverage of the elite league. I follow speedway around the country and the attendances have obviously dropped off, along with promoters admitting they continue to make losses each season, the sparse crowds are obvious. We can see the crowd figures given for the sports biggest meeting at Cardiff each season and the crowds for that have dropped off if the latest figures are to be believed, the stadium only barely sells half the capacity, ive no doubt many stay at home to watch it on the tv which i would say is detrimental in so much as it affects the figures of people coming through the gate, same as a televised league match, i know many who rather than pay on the turnstiles stay at home to watch it on the tele, if sky,s influence was so great we would deninately see a result of that with increased crowds at matches, you only have to look around you to see thats not the case. The actual product wasnt broken and the constant changes the sport has undergone have certainly not proved to be popular in general with the decline in attendances.

 

The fact that attendances have dropped off is beyond dispute. It is easy to suggest this or that reason for the decline but unravelling the exact cause is more complex and more difficult.

 

There are many factors that affect attendances. For example why is it that Peterborough with a good race track and decent world class riders, that are exciting to watch on their home track could not get their average crowd above 700 (according to Rick Frost) while Poole's lowest crowd of the season was higher than the Panthers average ? It is certainly good enough to encourage some ardent fans (such as Blupanther) to make a very long round trip to EOES on a regular basis. Could the answer be that due to a changing population people in the Peterborough area are simply not minded to support that type of sport however exciting it is made ? Birmingham with a winning team has really struggled with crowds whist Wolves, just up the road seem to have balanced the books despite more adversity and less success while competing in exactly the same league.

 

At Lakeside this year the crowds were very poor in the early part of the season then from mid-June they suddenly picked up, and according to the promotion the crowd figures in July and August were comparable to some of the best crowds prior to the recession and the meeting on 23rd of August was the best week-night crowd the present promotion have had, bettered only by Bank-Holiday and Saturday meetings. What caused this sudden improvement ? It was simply that in this part of the country we ran into the best summer for some years and speedway is a great place to be on a warm evening. All these things have to be factored into attendances. I know the weather has always been erratic in this country but undoubtedly peoples tolerance of such things in this day and age is less than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

 

The other thing that has to be factored in is peoples changing entertainment habits. Grass track racing is really struggling, even more than speedway, moto-cross is just about treading water, stock car racing is only viable at many venues because of a few big meetings a year but with relatively poor crowds at many smaller meetings. Greyhound racing has virtually disappeared from London, and everywhere you go pubs which are closing at the rate of about 30 per week are being turned into McDonalds or Tesco Express. Traditional High Street shops are closing all over the place.

 

They question that the critics of modern speedway never want to answer is this: Does the fact that all these other enterprises are struggling or closing down indicate that they are also being run incompetently and don't know what their customers want or is it just possible that in the modern world peoples tastes are changing. ?

 

Clearly the GP system is having a detrimental effect on the domestic fixtures but we can't do much about that, although the present changes may help to become less dependent on foreign riders. That is a fact of life we have to deal with. we can't ban the televising of continental meetings. Weather the televising of domestic meetings spoils the sport is a matter of conjecture. Obviously it hits the crowd of any particular meeting but I doubt whether any one not involved with the cost/benefit ratio is qualified to judge, especially when you take into account the beneficial aspect of attracting sponsors.

 

So in summary its all very well to shoot from the hip and highlight various problems which we all know exist but unless you look at the wider picture and try to separate the various factors its very difficult to point to any single cause such as the play-offs, and say if we got rid of this or that everything in the garden would be rosy.

[bellevueace]

I agree. And remind me who used the word "stupid" first?

Aimed at the post not like you at the poster theres a difference. Well you have some official figures you were so keen on, no comments? I await your input with official figures showing a rise in viewing figures, we all know attendance figures at tracks are down as some promoters were quoted in the star as saying they were running to under 1000 paying fans last season, i think Eastbourne quoted 600 for one match.

[orion]

If I didn't know you better I'd say that was the post of a complete bellend who is trying to look clever after making himself look gormless again.

 

 

Oh, hang on a minute

 

Ha ha

 

And again so easy to make you lose your temper I can see the smoke

Edited December 31, 2013 by orion

[manchesterpaul]

Anyway the this shows how productive tv is

 

http://www.methanolpress.com/catastrophic-further-collapse-in-cardiff-speedway-grand-prix-viewing-figures-contributes-to-dramatic-further-decline-in-overall-british-audience/

Can you provide factual figures of skys audience rising year on year?http://www.methanolpress.com/tag/sky-sports-speedway-viewing-figures/

As you are so obsessed with official figures heres another

 

Hmmmm as an avid disinformation/misinformation spotter of the USA's quite obscene 'Fox News' (tell it to you straight etc. lol lol lol lol can't breathe for laughing) i can only apply the same skills and berate that in my opinion the FIFTH COLUMNIST that is 'methanolpress' needs to be read between the lines. The truth is out there if you know where to look and your link to that site is quite mislead and sad.

Edited December 31, 2013 by manchesterpaul

[moxey63]

Myself, I feel SKY's coverage has reduced crowds on the terraces. There are a lot of other things, but when you can see live speedway in your front room (when not watching Jackanory), why venture to a match, pay, stand in the cold with a bunch of other strange type, get picked up by the roaming camera... and then get told later that week "I saw you on SKY at the speedway the other night - YOU'RE SACKED!"

 

Seriously, if crowds weren't reduced by live coverage - why don't SKY or BT show Premier League Football matches at 3pm on Saturdays?

[Guest]

i wish this thread would end

 

 

 

Like many threads on the BSF this debate has long exhausted itself but for some reason is allowed to trundle on carrying comments and replies with no relation to what the thread is supposed to be about. There comes a time when a Mod should lock the topic down - as happens on many other forums - but doesn't seem to happen on the BSF these days.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Guest

[bellevueace]

 

Hmmmm as an avid disinformation/misinformation spotter of the USA's quite obscene 'Fox News' (tell it to you straight etc. lol lol lol lol can't breathe for laughing) i can only apply the same skills and berate that in my opinion the FIFTH COLUMNIST that is 'methanolpress' needs to be read between the lines. The truth is out there if you know where to look and your link to that site is quite mislead and sad.

Its always easy to delude yourself that facts and figures that you dont want to acknowledge are sad, whats not sad is the fact that the cardiff spectacle is down on numbers, league speedway only for the real deluded is down on numbers. george likened my opinions to jackanory as we dont have official attendances published, well going off that his own opinions are hypocritical as he himself dosent have said facts to support his view. People like you will always bend statistics to suit and as long as the minority stay deluded everything in the garden will be rosy, if official stats were produced there would be the blinkered that would not believe it, but when your at KL have a look round and tell me that crowds arent what they were, this used to be a decent forum but now is populated by people that cant debate without being agressive(not you) and those who view the sport through rose tinted specs to be honest im glad to be off it, can you produce official stats to show sky EL meetings and GP,s are up on viewer numbers? I very much doubt it.

 

The fact that attendances have dropped off is beyond dispute. It is easy to suggest this or that reason for the decline but unravelling the exact cause is more complex and more difficult.

 

There are many factors that affect attendances. For example why is it that Peterborough with a good race track and decent world class riders, that are exciting to watch on their home track could not get their average crowd above 700 (according to Rick Frost) while Poole's lowest crowd of the season was higher than the Panthers average ? It is certainly good enough to encourage some ardent fans (such as Blupanther) to make a very long round trip to EOES on a regular basis. Could the answer be that due to a changing population people in the Peterborough area are simply not minded to support that type of sport however exciting it is made ? Birmingham with a winning team has really struggled with crowds whist Wolves, just up the road seem to have balanced the books despite more adversity and less success while competing in exactly the same league.

 

At Lakeside this year the crowds were very poor in the early part of the season then from mid-June they suddenly picked up, and according to the promotion the crowd figures in July and August were comparable to some of the best crowds prior to the recession and the meeting on 23rd of August was the best week-night crowd the present promotion have had, bettered only by Bank-Holiday and Saturday meetings. What caused this sudden improvement ? It was simply that in this part of the country we ran into the best summer for some years and speedway is a great place to be on a warm evening. All these things have to be factored into attendances. I know the weather has always been erratic in this country but undoubtedly peoples tolerance of such things in this day and age is less than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

 

The other thing that has to be factored in is peoples changing entertainment habits. Grass track racing is really struggling, even more than speedway, moto-cross is just about treading water, stock car racing is only viable at many venues because of a few big meetings a year but with relatively poor crowds at many smaller meetings. Greyhound racing has virtually disappeared from London, and everywhere you go pubs which are closing at the rate of about 30 per week are being turned into McDonalds or Tesco Express. Traditional High Street shops are closing all over the place.

 

They question that the critics of modern speedway never want to answer is this: Does the fact that all these other enterprises are struggling or closing down indicate that they are also being run incompetently and don't know what their customers want or is it just possible that in the modern world peoples tastes are changing. ?

 

Clearly the GP system is having a detrimental effect on the domestic fixtures but we can't do much about that, although the present changes may help to become less dependent on foreign riders. That is a fact of life we have to deal with. we can't ban the televising of continental meetings. Weather the televising of domestic meetings spoils the sport is a matter of conjecture. Obviously it hits the crowd of any particular meeting but I doubt whether any one not involved with the cost/benefit ratio is qualified to judge, especially when you take into account the beneficial aspect of attracting sponsors.

 

So in summary its all very well to shoot from the hip and highlight various problems which we all know exist but unless you look at the wider picture and try to separate the various factors its very difficult to point to any single cause such as the play-offs, and say if we got rid of this or that everything in the garden would be rosy.

Good points well made but many far older sports have also gone through the same upheavels and prospered support wise, both rugby codes, cricket, darts, and snooker to name but just a few.

[george.m]

Aimed at the post not like you at the poster theres a difference. Well you have some official figures you were so keen on, no comments? I await your input with official figures showing a rise in viewing figures, we all know attendance figures at tracks are down as some promoters were quoted in the star as saying they were running to under 1000 paying fans last season, i think Eastbourne quoted 600 for one match.

Aimed at the post not like you at the poster theres a difference. Well you have some official figures you were so keen on, no comments? I await your input with official figures showing a rise in viewing figures, we all know attendance figures at tracks are down as some promoters were quoted in the star as saying they were running to under 1000 paying fans last season, i think Eastbourne quoted 600 for one match.

You said in a previous post you want debate.

Well where is it then?

You make the same point about falling attendances with each post ad nauseum.

Where is the debate in that?

I've suggested to you there is more ways to measure success/failure than just attendances. But have declined to debate that.

I could even suggest more ways than I have, but feel it's a waste of my time as you'll just comeback with the same argue several of us got many moons ago. Whoosh!

 

OK let's stick with attendances then.

Let's draw a comparison with football.

Compared with the good old days attendances are down.

Yet the sport is flourishing with more world class players in the English Premiership than ever before.

There's more money slushing around in it than ever before.

There's more TV coverage than ever before.

Explain your logic about reduced attendances and SKY based on that.

And while you're at it, explain to me why reduced crowds is an indication of failure as I've still not seen you explain that logic.

 

BTW - Labeling a post as stupid is an indirect reference to the poster.

Edited December 31, 2013 by george.m