andrew parker Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Last season, in what some would say was a proper league with proper on the whole presentation, Panthers started off with 4 straight Fridays, followed by Poole with the world champion on a Thursday and a B/H Monday fixture against the Bees - so that took us to the end of May and - Frost added: “Crowd levels were disastrous in the first part of the season. They went up as the team began to perform well." Think you're getting carried away with the pulling power of moving what we have on Tuesday to a Friday. i was at all these meetings and crowds looked good, were you there? didn't mr frost come out and say he needed crowds of over 2000? or 2400ish? this was due to putting a very expensive team together Edited July 10, 2014 by andrew parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 i was at all these meetings and crowds looked good, were you there? didn't mr frost come out and say he needed crowds of over 2000? or 2400ish? this was due to putting a very expensive team together Crump just told you that Frost the bloke who knows the crowd figures say they were poor . NO offence but I have feeling he's likely to know unlike you ...The bottom line is that the crowds were poor on Fridays . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 i was at all these meetings and crowds looked good, were you there? didn't mr frost come out and say he needed crowds of over 2000? or 2400ish? this was due to putting a very expensive team together No I wasn't there but was going by what opposition fans kept saying which seems to agree with Frost but disagree with you? "Frost revealed that crowds at the Showground only averaged around 800 during last season (2009) and admits that is barely half of the figure required for the club to break even (1500)." "Peterborough Panthers bosses have admitted that attendance figures have fallen during the 2012 season." "Panthers are nowhere near to meeting their break-even requirement of average crowds of 2,000 (2012)" That's what you get for no success, signing Bjerre year on year and giving Swindon the 2012 title! There seems to be something there about lack of success increasing the break even figure exponentially so 2400 might be right although I never saw that. So you think that the Tuesday production on a Friday will solve the problem? How many Fridays did MH have during his first tenure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew parker Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Crump just told you that Frost the bloke who knows the crowd figures say they were poor . NO offence but I have feeling he's likely to know unlike you ...The bottom line is that the crowds were poor on Fridays . what a fantastic post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew parker Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 No I wasn't there but was going by what opposition fans kept saying which seems to agree with Frost but disagree with you? "Frost revealed that crowds at the Showground only averaged around 800 during last season (2009) and admits that is barely half of the figure required for the club to break even (1500)." "Peterborough Panthers bosses have admitted that attendance figures have fallen during the 2012 season." "Panthers are nowhere near to meeting their break-even requirement of average crowds of 2,000 (2012)" That's what you get for no success, signing Bjerre year on year and giving Swindon the 2012 title! There seems to be something there about lack of success increasing the break even figure exponentially so 2400 might be right although I never saw that. So you think that the Tuesday production on a Friday will solve the problem? How many Fridays did MH have during his first tenure? crump 99 from 2009 to 2012 mid weeks were our race nights not fridays ( apart from 2010 9 meetings) so all your quotes by mr frost relate to mid week crowd figures Last season crowds on a friday were very good it was the really poor mid week ones that let us down. As for do i think the 'Tuesday production' (PL racing) would be better on a friday yes i do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 crump 99 from 2009 to 2012 mid weeks were our race nights not fridays ( apart from 2010 9 meetings) so all your quotes by mr frost relate to mid week crowd figures Last season crowds on a friday were very good it was the really poor mid week ones that let us down. As for do i think the 'Tuesday production' (PL racing) would be better on a friday yes i do 2006 was midweek and Horton made a shedful with a decent product and decent presentation. From June of 2013 fixtures were all over the place but with decent product and presentation Frost added: “Crowd levels were disastrous in the first part of the season (more Friday). They went up as the team began to perform well." I doubt that you'd get consistent Friday's at the EoES these days anyway which brings us back to will PL speedway, which nobody outside of the sport can relate to these days IMO (The SGP, SEC, Sweden, Sky etc is what they see), balance the books in a more fragmented fixture list? I think that we'd soon be having a discussion about why it isn't working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think that we'd soon be having a discussion about why it isn't working? panthers went from having the best presentation (Darren fletcher, panthers best signing ) and decent music , now we seem to have taken 50 steps back and stuck in a time warp , 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew parker Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 2006 was midweek and Horton made a shedful with a decent product and decent presentation. From June of 2013 fixtures were all over the place but with decent product and presentation Frost added: “Crowd levels were disastrous in the first part of the season (more Friday). They went up as the team began to perform well." I doubt that you'd get consistent Friday's at the EoES these days anyway which brings us back to will PL speedway, which nobody outside of the sport can relate to these days IMO (The SGP, SEC, Sweden, Sky etc is what they see), balance the books in a more fragmented fixture list? I think that we'd soon be having a discussion about why it isn't working? They were disastrous because Frost was expecting crowds of 2400+ which was because he had put an expensive team together, those figures were never going to happen IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 In my opinion it was the introduction of the GP series that influenced the downfall of British Speedway. Don't get me wrong I'm a supporter of the GP's and always look forward to each round. The knock on effect of the televised spectacle was expected to create an influx of new supporters, a similar model to F1. Poland, Sweden, Denmark all seem to have gained support whearas British Speedway (the place to be) went downhill rapidly. Even they are now falling into decline. Why? Inconsistent race nights, the loss of regular 1-7 teams and 'superstars' that no longer rely on plying their trade in the UK. The result being top riders could demand top dollar, coupled with decreasing attendances, severe lack of sponsorship, cash strapped promotions with insufficient funds to market the product - a business model doomed for failure. Is it coincidence that all the other nations all have a dedicated Speedway night, Sun, Tues, Weds? We have continually tried to accomadate the desperate clubs, for the right reasons, to assist survival. Unfortunately it appears to have backfired drastically as most are now gasping their last breath. The PL has it's problems but due to lesser costs, consistent race nights and in my opinion better racing it's survived better. Problem is for many, once they've had steak...... I originally posted my thoughts on the local forum. I would also like to add having a BSPA with so much self interest will always create a divide. We stand no chance unless all pull together for the good of the sport. Sadly I won't be holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeyin Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 speedway is doomed in UK under present format, think we should go down Danish / Swedish route , fixed night and race at home every fortnight, then perhaps more families would be able to attend. You could have a set night for EL and separate night each for PL and NL , that should prevent guests (except for injuries)and each team would be able to track their full 1-7, without losing them to double up / down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 PETERBOROUGH star Ryan Fisher is facing shoulder surgery which will keep him out of action for up to two months.The Panthers are now searching for a guest for the American star to ride at Workington in the League Cup semi-final on Sunday, and then for a permanent replacement. Co-promoter Trevor Swales said: “It is a massive blow for Ryan to learn his season is virtually over and he will be a big loss to the club. It goes without saying that everyone at Peterborough wishes him well.“Our first task now is to come up with a guest for Sunday and then we need to quickly assess our options going forward. We cannot even contemplate using rider replacement to cover the length of absence that Ryan is going to have.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 If Fish isnt going to be back until Mid September would it not make more sense to bring in a replacement ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) I'm afraid for Speedway, it's got itself into a vicious circle in many ways... Reducing the points limit year after year, reducing the quality of racing on offer year after year, reducing the amount of shale on tracks year after year, losing paying on the door suppoters year after year, whilst increasing admission year after year, riders wages increasing year after year and you get to where we are now. Not enough quality riders in our top division, miniscule crowds and still reducing and probably the biggest mistake is allowing the quality of the top league to be levelled off to the lowest denominating club every year, so the clubs that are actually surviving every year, building strong teams every year and are (or seem to be reasonably safe financially) get hammered year after year, reducing the quality of their product to the level of the poorest clubs in the league in the name of trying to stop the poorly run/financially challenged/poor demographics of their local population will eventually implode and Speedway will be no more.. We need the clubs to be aiming higher, and not as it seems lowering their standards to the wring end of the product spectrum.. if it means losing a team or two from the Elife League (on the short term) could be the answer... Edited July 11, 2014 by Shale Searcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 If Fish isnt going to be back until Mid September would it not make more sense to bring in a replacement ? PETERBOROUGH star Ryan Fisher is facing shoulder surgery which will keep him out of action for up to two months. The Panthers are now searching for a guest for the American star to ride at Workington in the League Cup semi-final on Sunday, and then for a permanent replacement. Co-promoter Trevor Swales said: “It is a massive blow for Ryan to learn his season is virtually over and he will be a big loss to the club. It goes without saying that everyone at Peterborough wishes him well. “Our first task now is to come up with a guest for Sunday and then we need to quickly assess our options going forward. We cannot even contemplate using rider replacement to cover the length of absence that Ryan is going to have.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) They were disastrous because Frost was expecting crowds of 2400+ which was because he had put an expensive team together, those figures were never going to happen IMO Don't know where 2400 came from because that's totally unrealistic (pick a number like season ticket sales). I'm sure that I'd have seen it if it was said? If that team was expensive then he really was getting bad advice. They were disastrous because the team was half fit, came in cold & got turned over first night by that lot from the bird cage and then we never took decisive action to stop the slide as Frost admitted he should have done. Edited July 11, 2014 by Crump99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I'm afraid for Speedway, it's got itself into a vicious circle in many ways... Reducing the points limit year after year, reducing the quality of racing on offer year after year, reducing the amount of shale on tracks year after year, losing paying on the door suppoters year after year, whilst increasing admission year after year, riders wages increasing year after year and you get to where we are now. Not enough quality riders in our top division, miniscule crowds and still reducing and probably the biggest mistake is allowing the quality of the top league to be levelled off to the lowest denominating club every year, so the clubs that are actually surviving every year, building strong teams every year and are (or seem to be reasonably safe financially) get hammered year after year, reducing the quality of their product to the level of the poorest clubs in the league in the name of trying to stop the poorly run/financially challenged/poor demographics of their local population will eventually implode and Speedway will be no more.. We need the clubs to be aiming higher, and not as it seems lowering their standards to the wring end of the product spectrum.. if it means losing a team or two from the Elife League (on the short term) could be the answer... Exactly what I have been saying for years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TesarRacing Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 We need the clubs to be aiming higher, and not as it seems lowering their standards to the wring end of the product spectrum.. if it means losing a team or two from the Elife League (on the short term) could be the answer... ......but when Poole do that they get slated!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 ......but when Poole do that they get slated!!!! Rather when anybody other than Poole try to do it The Mafia make then an offer they can't refuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Brown Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) I'm afraid for Speedway, it's got itself into a vicious circle in many ways... Reducing the points limit year after year, reducing the quality of racing on offer year after year, reducing the amount of shale on tracks year after year, losing paying on the door suppoters year after year, whilst increasing admission year after year, riders wages increasing year after year and you get to where we are now. Not enough quality riders in our top division, miniscule crowds and still reducing and probably the biggest mistake is allowing the quality of the top league to be levelled off to the lowest denominating club every year, so the clubs that are actually surviving every year, building strong teams every year and are (or seem to be reasonably safe financially) get hammered year after year, reducing the quality of their product to the level of the poorest clubs in the league in the name of trying to stop the poorly run/financially challenged/poor demographics of their local population will eventually implode and Speedway will be no more.. We need the clubs to be aiming higher, and not as it seems lowering their standards to the wring end of the product spectrum.. if it means losing a team or two from the Elife League (on the short term) could be the answer... Safe financially ? Birmingham have gone, Eastbourne look like going. I know the answer. lets invest massively in bring the big names who will bleed every last penny out of the sport and keep our fingers and toes crossed that the supporters who want this are prepared to pay for it. History suggests they will not and we will lose even more tracks I struggle a bit with the concept that destrengthening the league means a reduction in the quality of the racing, personally I do not see the correlation Its a difficult one for promoters (gee am I defending them) but in a declining market, its a brave man who invests in a team hoping it works, Rick Frost done it and it failed, why should it work elsewhere No question the sport is on a spiral and not sure anyone knows what to do.....................................apart from the people who are telling everyone else they should be spending more money of course. I agree that scrimping on shale is a problem but points limit reduction for me is not the major issue. If we really think the right strategy is to drop a couple of clubs from the Elite League then I would be concerned, looks like two are going when the costs are trying to be reduced, maybe you are thinking its another two, That if course would mean that everyone could complain about lack of variety and seeing the same team too often I still say get rid of the top riders as the sport cannot afford them Edited July 11, 2014 by Chris Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Rick Frost did not fail. He tried to do it and was shafted!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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