Sky Sports New Deal

[Guest]

To say that the BSPA are soleley responsible for bringing on tomorrows stards is highly flawed in my view, it has to be a collaboration between the clubs and the BSPA. The clubs are in touch with the fans weekly and are able to go out into the community. It makes sense for them to be involved with nurturing the youth riders.

 

If the speedways were bona fide clubs as in major sports like football, cricket, rugby codes, etc. They are not. They are basically individual business ventures in these modern times. Why should a promoter help finance a training schemes when he will not get anything at the end of the day? At the end of the day as in any other show business venture at the end of the day it is the promoters who hosts the Sky TV match who should be the sole beneficiary of the event.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Guest

[John Leslie]

If the speedways were bona fide clubs as in major sports like football, cricket, rugby codes, etc. They are not. They are basically individual business ventures in these modern times.

You don't make any sense. Pub football teams may still be unincorporated clubs and associations, but the league teams (and Cricket & Rugby teams) are all Limited Companies (and in some cases Plcs) just the same as Speedway teams.

[Ray Stadia]

You don't make any sense. Pub football teams may still be unincorporated clubs and associations, but the league teams (and Cricket & Rugby teams) are all Limited Companies (and in some cases Plcs) just the same as Speedway teams.

While Speedway teams race against each other in a league or leagues, there is a reliance on each other. When a team commits itself to enter a team at the start of the season, surely they have entered into a contract with all other teams in the league and therefore, for the season, at least, an Association exits.

[Guest]

You don't make any sense. Pub football teams may still be unincorporated clubs and associations, but the league teams (and Cricket & Rugby teams) are all Limited Companies (and in some cases Plcs) just the same as Speedway teams.

 

So they contract riders as in football and continuity continues season on season? They make adjustments to a basic side each season as needed possibly through a retirement or a transfer request. There is a site that carries all the London team squads from 1929 and the variations in subsequent seasons are very slight indeed.

I know full well about junior clubs (or as you call them pub football teams which many would be offended at such a description) and the leagues they play in - having been actively involved in this type of football between 1959-1970.

In what ways i the structure, for example, of football club like Manchester United or a rugby league club like Wigan comparable to a speedway club? Do they have to discard players season on season to find equalisation? It's a tough old competitive world for them.

However, the real point of this debate is WHY SHOULD A SPEEDWAY PROMOTER DONATE REVENUE FROM A SKY MEETING TO FOSTER JUNIOR RIDERS?

[ancient mariner]

And this is why Speedway in this country is screwed.

 

The sport is 'administered' by those who seek to exploit it - by which I mean make money from it. Consequently there is no reason to suppose that the BSPA would individually or collectively have the slightest interest in the future the sport other than what it might profit them.

 

I'm not suggesting that the BSPA are wrong is this respect. I'm saying they shouldn't be running the sport.

[Guest]

And this is why Speedway in this country is screwed.

 

The sport is 'administered' by those who seek to exploit it - by which I mean make money from it. Consequently there is no reason to suppose that the BSPA would individually or collectively have the slightest interest in the future the sport other than what it might profit them.

 

I'm not suggesting that the BSPA are wrong is this respect. I'm saying they shouldn't be running the sport.

 

Surely a promoter is in speedway to make money from it? And apart from those with financial interest in the sport who are better qualified to run and organise it than the BSPA. Let's face it, any attempt to create an alternative to the BSPA would be ignored by the promoters.

I may be challenged as to why I don't suggest an alternative to the BSPA but tbh must confess I see no alternative...at the moment.

[Ray Stadia]

 

Surely a promoter is in speedway to make money from it? And apart from those with financial interest in the sport who are better qualified to run and organise it than the BSPA. Let's face it, any attempt to create an alternative to the BSPA would be ignored by the promoters.

I may be challenged as to why I don't suggest an alternative to the BSPA but tbh must confess I see no alternative...at the moment.

I am not sure whether promoters these days expect to make money, but I am sure they would like to at least cover costs, which is fair enough! The trouble is, the whole speedway promotion is based on the riders needs, which to me is wrong. If you treated speedway as a 'co-operative', you would consider everybody, promoters, riders and supporters. It has been mentioned many times before, but as long as speedway pays the wages demanded, tracks/promotions will be precarious season to season.

[Humphrey Appleby]

NONE ...

Not since they 'allowed' the FIM to sell off the rights, but the BSPA and other speedway authorities could obtained the rights probably for little or nothing in the past. Even if they'd then outsourced the SGP organisation to a more competent commercial entity, they could still be making a few hundred thousand more quid than they're doing now.

 

But you know this very well and I've never once seen this discussed within the pages of the learned journal.

Surely a promoter is in speedway to make money from it?

Who makes money from speedway these days? I'd have thought the ambition of most promoters is not to lose too much money.

 

Of course tracks are all individual businesses, but they are not effectively in competition with each other except on-track. Speedway is not the same as football which always has a plentiful supply of teams to replace the fallen, so it much more needs a wider cooperative approach if it's going to survive into the future.

 

Yes, it's true that promoters individually gain little from trying to develop riders, but a significant reason for the sport being in the mess it's in is because it simply hasn't collectively been developing riders as much as it should. This problem has been exacerbated by a ridiculous transfer system that encourages looking for ready-made riders abroad who are effectively free to sign, but whom they might charge a transfer or loan fee for in future. Total nonsense.

 

I can well understand why under the current system, promoters would want to use any largesse to try to offset their inevitable losses. However, unless there's a change in the approach to rider development and the transfer system, they're dooming themselves to an inextricable downward spiral.

 

The most successful (and profitable) professional sports actually take a very collective approach to running their overall businesses - whether through draft or farm systems. This is what speedway needs to be trying to emulate, but it can't just be the responsibility of the BSPA because someone still needs to be running the development tracks and teams.

[Pirates Of Poole]

If everything is signed still don't understand why an announcement has not been made.

[StevePark]

If everything is signed still don't understand why an announcement has not been made.

 

Ask Matt Ford????

[500cc]

 

 

However, the real point of this debate is WHY SHOULD A SPEEDWAY PROMOTER DONATE REVENUE FROM A SKY MEETING TO FOSTER JUNIOR RIDERS?

In the end isn't the crux of this how income is viewed. The sport has been receiving 1 million a year from Sky. So what does it do. After deductions (i.e. Terry Russell, but at least that's an agreed cut), they divide it 10 ways between the promotions to do what the want.

 

At this point I haven't really got the will to continue the discussion, because the mistake is already evident. Where's the investment? Do you know what, each team could have benefited from the investment with a little bit of management control. Hand your kids a windfall to blow as they wish in a year, or provide them a windfall that they must invest sensibly. And each year you get the windfall, repeat the process. Then the windfall stops. Now compare the kids who blew it, against those who invested. Only one group will be reliant on more of the same.

[Sir Jasper]

If the speedways were bona fide clubs as in major sports like football, cricket, rugby codes, etc. They are not. They are basically individual business ventures in these modern times. Why should a promoter help finance a training schemes when he will not get anything at the end of the day? At the end of the day as in any other show business venture at the end of the day it is the promoters who hosts the Sky TV match who should be the sole beneficiary of the event.

WHY SHOULD A SPEEDWAY PROMOTER DONATE REVENUE FROM A SKY MEETING TO FOSTER JUNIOR RIDERS?

To try and improve the standard of British speedway. If we produce more riders of a strong standard the strength of the sport increases in this country. The strength of the sport increasing leads to an increase in public interest, an increase in public interest directly equates to increased sponsorship and exposure, a strong league then leads to top foreign riders participating in the league. Everybody is a winner!!

[MrB]

If everything is signed still don't understand why an announcement has not been made.

Waiting for the end of year highlights programme to announce it maybe?

[Jonny the spud]

Just a thought but maybe some of the tv money could be used to purchase an engine each and pay for the years maintainance for the young British riders that they're encouraging to step up to the EL? Each rider will be expected to have two bikes built to a high standard. Surely this step would help improve British riders coming through the ranks rather than paying a GP riders flights ?

[foamfence]

Just a thought but maybe some of the tv money could be used to purchase an engine each and pay for the years maintainance for the young British riders that they're encouraging to step up to the EL? Each rider will be expected to have two bikes built to a high standard. Surely this step would help improve British riders coming through the ranks rather than paying a GP riders flights ?

At some clubs there will be some loan equipment in the offing, It's obviously in the clubs interest to try and get the best from their reserves.

[500cc]

At some clubs there will be some loan equipment in the offing, It's obviously in the clubs interest to try and get the best from their reserves.

Whilst this sounds good in isolation (and to an extent is) and actually highlights a potential problem with the initiative. Rider A gets lots of extra help and has minimal personal costs. Rider B gets no help and everything is a cost to him. Rider B decides that much as he'd like to continue in the EL it isn't economically possible. Rider A is riding GP standard equipment, and although there skill levels are similar is financially able to stay in the EL. For Rider B he decides he's better continuing his education at NL (or PL) level which is more suited to his ability and finances.

 

We can argue all day about the lack of ambition of Rider B, but the system won't survive with too many Rider B's. Then when it goes all wrong we can all blame the Rider B's lack of ambition for turning down an 'opportunity offered on a plate" and causing British Speedway to take another step back.

 

Yet the blame will lie at the feet of the BSPA. This initiative needs to be centrally funded and managed. If not and left to promoters to do what's best for them, the recent history tells us all we need to know about the next level of mess this sport will reach.

 

I plead with the the 10 promotions to work together on this initiative this season. You've got an opportunity for all of you to reap the benefits going forward. Don't destroy through your individual ego's.

[Ray Stadia]

Whilst this sounds good in isolation (and to an extent is) and actually highlights a potential problem with the initiative. Rider A gets lots of extra help and has minimal personal costs. Rider B gets no help and everything is a cost to him. Rider B decides that much as he'd like to continue in the EL it isn't economically possible. Rider A is riding GP standard equipment, and although there skill levels are similar is financially able to stay in the EL. For Rider B he decides he's better continuing his education at NL (or PL) level which is more suited to his ability and finances.

 

We can argue all day about the lack of ambition of Rider B, but the system won't survive with too many Rider B's. Then when it goes all wrong we can all blame the Rider B's lack of ambition for turning down an 'opportunity offered on a plate" and causing British Speedway to take another step back.

 

Yet the blame will lie at the feet of the BSPA. This initiative needs to be centrally funded and managed. If not and left to promoters to do what's best for them, the recent history tells us all we need to know about the next level of mess this sport will reach.

 

I plead with the the 10 promotions to work together on this initiative this season. You've got an opportunity for all of you to reap the benefits going forward. Don't destroy through your individual ego's.

I think one of the problems is the promoters are not thinking Speedway 7 days or even 5 days a week. For many, I would imagine it is a side issue, they run businesses which take up a lot of their time. Also, most don't own the track, just rent it on the day of the meeting and basically turn up on the day, along with the riders. Ok, they need to prepare the track, but it's not like, say, a Football Club, which is manned, probably most of the week, with training/coaching etc. An ideal situation could be for a separate body, within Speedway, to be responsible for training and bringing on the youngsters and making full use of those tracks that can offer training facilities. As for funding, perhaps a levy to all those involved in Speedway, promoters, riders, tuners, bike manufacturers/builders and maybe fans.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Ray Stadia

[foamfence]

Whilst this sounds good in isolation (and to an extent is) and actually highlights a potential problem with the initiative. Rider A gets lots of extra help and has minimal personal costs. Rider B gets no help and everything is a cost to him. Rider B decides that much as he'd like to continue in the EL it isn't economically possible. Rider A is riding GP standard equipment, and although there skill levels are similar is financially able to stay in the EL. For Rider B he decides he's better continuing his education at NL (or PL) level which is more suited to his ability and finances.

 

We can argue all day about the lack of ambition of Rider B, but the system won't survive with too many Rider B's. Then when it goes all wrong we can all blame the Rider B's lack of ambition for turning down an 'opportunity offered on a plate" and causing British Speedway to take another step back.

 

Yet the blame will lie at the feet of the BSPA. This initiative needs to be centrally funded and managed. If not and left to promoters to do what's best for them, the recent history tells us all we need to know about the next level of mess this sport will reach.

 

I plead with the the 10 promotions to work together on this initiative this season. You've got an opportunity for all of you to reap the benefits going forward. Don't destroy through your individual ego's.

Any help is better than none! What you describe can happen to any rider in any league. Anyway I won't argue the point, I'm too sickened off with all the negative attitudes on here.

[Vince]

Most businesses reinvest part of their income for the future in one way or another. Quite likely the best investment for the future of British Speedway is to increase the amount of local riders and therefore reduce future costs. It seems logical to me for clubs to cut costs to a level where this can be achieved rather than continue to run at a loss until everybody gets to the point they can no longer survive.

 

However it is easy to see the temptations for Promoters to spend money on top riders, the expectations of their customers mainly.

[pandorum]

Anyway I won't argue the point, I'm too sickened off with all the negative attitudes on here.

I don't know what you actually expect after decades of these people running our sport so far into the ground it's nearly in the Permian Era.

Of course we hope for something good from this new deal but we know who will get the money and are not confident they will do anything but what they always do. Squander it.

 

We fans are obviously hoping that they have learnt a lesson from the last 15 years when a goldmine was p#ssed away on rubbish that was flown in and out and that regardless of the reasons for it the investment in young Brit riders will help as long as the promoters work together and do it right for the sport rather than thier selfish gain.

 

But we have seen one team already dissapear because of the attitude of these people. We know this because the bloke who just bailed out said so.

So to start with we have no idea of how many teams will line up in March never mind the format for the top league.

 

They have got to learn and work together.

Invest in a decent racing surface, work with SKY to bring the TV audience a well matched meeting between 2 teams that can ride the track.

The result, daft as it sounds, comes secondary to trying to bring new interest to the sport by showcasing it on TV.

 

Other sports can afford rubbish matches on TV as they have a following and money from sponsors and investors.

Speedway has nothing really except a bloody good sport when it is allowed to be done right.

Promotion, track, investment in home talent, try to build up some kind of atmosphere so it looks like a sport when it's on TV rather than a funeral.

Lots can be done with little outlay if the will is there to make speedway look like a good night out.

 

The fans need to play a part and the promotions should work with supporters clubs and fans on social media to get the best out of a TV showcase.

Fans need to make some noise and promoters need to give fans something to make some noise about.

 

But will it happen? #### knows

Edited December 10, 2013 by pandorum