Objects Of Ridicule ?

[E I Addio]

 

 

I'd say most of them ignore it because they don't like the often totally justified criticism they get from the considerable number of decent posters on here who care deeply about the sport.

 

... maybe they don't like the often unjustified criticism (and abuse) from people who proudly proclaim they haven't been for years, but will only post when they see the opportunity to put the boot in. Sometimes I don't know whether .to laugh or cry, there are so many genuine problems with the sport that are worthy of intelligent discussion yet so many posts are on the lines of "Whoa yeah gor blimey mate I fink the promoters are a bunch of idiots........" then go off on some incorrect tangent about some rule they think exists but doesn't or that Golden era when only Englishmen won the world final. The T/R ,Tac sub is classic example. SCB and Bwitcher have explained in the clearest possible terms, that even I can understand why the Tac Sub rule was even more unfair than the T/r rule but still we get people banging on about tac subs, and of course we get thread after thread like this one where mythical friends or blokes in the office are collapsing with laughter because of guest riders or something. That fact is that there are maybe a dozen or so posters that are really on the ball with different aspects of the sport and come up with some really constructive criticisms or realistic suggestions which make for interesting debate, whether you agree with them or not but many more only seem intent on chipping away at our favourite port with nonsense like this thread.

[Humphrey Appleby]

... maybe they don't like the often unjustified criticism (and abuse) from people who proudly proclaim they haven't been for years, but will only post when they see the opportunity to put the boot in.

Some of us just gave up in despair, and the only thing left is to look upon speedway like a Greek tragedy.

[stratton]

... maybe they don't like the often unjustified criticism (and abuse) from people who proudly proclaim they haven't been for years, but will only post when they see the opportunity to put the boot in. Sometimes I don't know whether .to laugh or cry, there are so many genuine problems with the sport that are worthy of intelligent discussion yet so many posts are on the lines of "Whoa yeah gor blimey mate I fink the promoters are a bunch of idiots........" then go off on some incorrect tangent about some rule they think exists but doesn't or that Golden era when only Englishmen won the world final. The T/R ,Tac sub is classic example. SCB and Bwitcher have explained in the clearest possible terms, that even I can understand why the Tac Sub rule was even more unfair than the T/r rule but still we get people banging on about tac subs, and of course we get thread after thread like this one where mythical friends or blokes in the office are collapsing with laughter because of guest riders or something. That fact is that there are maybe a dozen or so posters that are really on the ball with different aspects of the sport and come up with some really constructive criticisms or realistic suggestions which make for interesting debate, whether you agree with them or not but many more only seem intent on chipping away at our favourite port with nonsense like this thread.

Most people i know who moan,do so because they are really passionate about the sport.And the years of frustration where the sport has just not progressed really gets to people.Also about the tact rule,if they're was a vote on it now from fans what do you think the result would be?.I cannot for the life of me believe the rule then was more un fairer than this Micky mouse rule now in place.The promoters also are not idiots and they pay the bills so they have a right to do what they want to do.But do they ever really listen to the CUSTOMER? seems not as for this promoting riders NL fastracking riders who are not ready is a recipe for disaster.Do people remember? Surman,Leaver, Whittaker,Tagg,Pinder,Cobby, and endless others all lost to the sport after being thrown to the wolves before they were ready. Edited December 3, 2013 by sidney

[The White Knight]

... maybe they don't like the often unjustified criticism (and abuse) from people who proudly proclaim they haven't been for years, but will only post when they see the opportunity to put the boot in. Sometimes I don't know whether .to laugh or cry, there are so many genuine problems with the sport that are worthy of intelligent discussion yet so many posts are on the lines of "Whoa yeah gor blimey mate I fink the promoters are a bunch of idiots........" then go off on some incorrect tangent about some rule they think exists but doesn't or that Golden era when only Englishmen won the world final. The T/R ,Tac sub is classic example. SCB and Bwitcher have explained in the clearest possible terms, that even I can understand why the Tac Sub rule was even more unfair than the T/r rule but still we get people banging on about tac subs, and of course we get thread after thread like this one where mythical friends or blokes in the office are collapsing with laughter because of guest riders or something. That fact is that there are maybe a dozen or so posters that are really on the ball with different aspects of the sport and come up with some really constructive criticisms or realistic suggestions which make for interesting debate, whether you agree with them or not but many more only seem intent on chipping away at our favourite port with nonsense like this thread.

 

 

................ and IF they are NOT mythical. In my case they definitely aren't and I suspect that to be the case with 'catseyes' too. If, as you seem to very much doubt our veracity, we are speaking the TRUTH.

 

What then?

[BWitcher]

.I cannot for the life of me believe the rule then was more un fairer than this Micky mouse rule now in place

Sigh.

 

It's not a case of believing or not believing. Its a fact. The old tac sub was more unfair, FAR more unfair than the current one.

 

A valid argument would be to say getting 'double pts' makes the sport look silly in your opinion. That I could understand, but to argue on the point of fairness is quite simply wrong.

 

I have no doubt you will come back with a rant about "who are you to tell me what I should think", that's your choice. Your argument is the equivalent of arguing with your teacher as a younger in class that 2 x 2 doesn't equal 4 because in your opinion its 5. It would be foolish.

[Paulco]

What a nasty , poisonous little thread , even by BSF's standards .

Somebody can come on here and attempt to kick start a debate, among like minded individuals, about the more outlandish practices in our sport - and what does he or she get in responce ? The jackbooted playground bullies wading in to run he or she out of Dodge with jibes of " Liar , Liar " ringing in his or her ears .

Now i don't know the opening poster , or the speedway challenged acquaintances . But it was an interesting wee story to start a debate . Whether it was fiction or not , i don't really care . But surely the responce it got was completely unnecessary .

[pandorum]

Got to agree.

I did not believe for a second the conversation took place but would not call the bloke a liar.

It was a silly way to make a point that for me was not even valid as talking about sports you don't like seems silly as we don't have enough time in life to discuss everything we do like.

All sports have bizarre rules not just our but to call the guy a liar was a bit mad .

[Vince]

All that matters is how much they get paid which is why many race their team partners instead of racing the opposition.

 

You called somebody else cynical then make a crass comment like that. There might be riders like that but there are also many more who will take huge risks to gain an extra point for their team and not even think of the money. If they only raced for the money they would never take the risk of hurting themselves or writing a bike off at a cost of dozens or even hundreds of points.

[Grachan]

 

 

All sports have their weird quirks. The trick is NOT to go into them with a newbie. I swear speedway fans love telling their mates about TRs, guests and rider riding in more than one country.

 

The trouble is you HAVE to tell them about the TR otherwise they get the score wrong. That's the problem with the TR.

[oldace]

 

The trouble is you HAVE to tell them about the TR otherwise they get the score wrong. That's the problem with the TR.

 

 

But it isn't rocket science to understand is it. Why would explaining it present a problem.

 

Despite everything on here to the contrary speedways rules (or at least the ones you need to understand to be able to enjoy a meeting) are probably far easier than most sports to grasp.

 

We all have aspects of the sport we don't like but it the ludicrous "mates in the pub falling about laughing" type stories where those points become lost in a work of fiction.

 

Clearly the OP has issues with riders riding here there and everywhere, he has a valid point well worth debating so why make up the fairy tale, it only serves to make him look foolish

[stratton]

Sigh.

 

It's not a case of believing or not believing. Its a fact. The old tac sub was more unfair, FAR more unfair than the current one.

 

A valid argument would be to say getting 'double pts' makes the sport look silly in your opinion. That I could understand, but to argue on the point of fairness is quite simply wrong.

 

I have no doubt you will come back with a rant about "who are you to tell me what I should think", that's your choice. Your argument is the equivalent of arguing with your teacher as a younger in class that 2 x 2 doesn't equal 4 because in your opinion its 5. It would be foolish.

Not a rant it is just my OPINION, ( you have never quite grasped that word ) you on the other hand on this thread have shown your true colours totally out of order with your comments about Catseyes.A decent thread why would you react like that? border lining on nastiness would not be so bad but you are only a Part time supporter.

[oldace]

 

 

................ and IF they are NOT mythical. In my case they definitely aren't and I suspect that to be the case with 'catseyes' too. If, as you seem to very much doubt our veracity, we are speaking the TRUTH.

 

What then?

 

 

I bet you still believe in Father Christmas Ian

[stratton]

Gawd. What an arrogant presumptious shower on here. Everybody knows your conversations and have the nerve to come out and call complete strangers " liars. " Not for me thanks. I'm off. Ta ta. Enjoy your prejudices.

Dont let them win Catseyes! they're are loads of decent folk on here who are great to debate with you happen to have been torn to shreads by two people who in all honesty are known for there actions its they're way or no way.Why on earth would anyone call you a LIAR? i have had endless chats with people about the rules (ect) as probably many other forum members have to. Edited December 4, 2013 by sidney

[Grachan]

 

 

But it isn't rocket science to understand is it. Why would explaining it present a problem.

 

 

 

It's not because it's difficult to understand. It's because people immediately think it's stupid.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Despite everything on here to the contrary speedways rules (or at least the ones you need to understand to be able to enjoy a meeting) are probably far easier than most sports to grasp.

I don't see that complexity is necessarily a problem anyway. Speedway is an inherently simple sport, but it would quickly become one-dimensional if it was just about four riders riding in circles for four laps. I was actually drawn further into the sport by the different types of meeting you have, the tactical options, and the fact that riders came from what seemed like all round the world (which was largely not the case in football at the time).

 

Cricket is a far more complex sport than speedway (try explaining lbw to the uninitiated - even the name is humorous), but its hardcore fans revel in its complexities and nuances. That does not though, stop people enjoying watching the sport at a superficial level, which is basically about hitting a ball around a field.

[Ray Stadia]

I don't see that complexity is necessarily a problem anyway. Speedway is an inherently simple sport, but it would quickly become one-dimensional if it was just about four riders riding in circles for four laps. I was actually drawn further into the sport by the different types of meeting you have, the tactical options, and the fact that riders came from what seemed like all round the world (which was largely not the case in football at the time).

 

Cricket is a far more complex sport than speedway (try explaining lbw to the uninitiated - even the name is humorous), but its hardcore fans revel in its complexities and nuances. That does not though, stop people enjoying watching the sport at a superficial level, which is basically about hitting a ball around a field.

I understand different sports have rules which are hard to understand, I have never understood Cricket and probably never will. I don't really understand Rugby either. However, the rules of most sports have been 'hard coded' for many years and to me, haven't really changed. Speedway seems to be constantly tinkering with the rules to try and make the sport more exciting and less one sided at certain meetings. But it obviously isn't working as, sadly, fans are not flocking to the tracks to witness these new rules in action and in fact are creating the opposite. Many hard core fans just want a simple 3,2,1 system of scoring and with a team of riders who, barring injury, turn up at each meeting. Ideally local lads, who the fans and more importantly, the youngsters can relate to. Is that really such a terrible wish? It was what Speedway began with!

[stratton]

I understand different sports have rules which are hard to understand, I have never understood Cricket and probably never will. I don't really understand Rugby either. However, the rules of most sports have been 'hard coded' for many years and to me, haven't really changed. Speedway seems to be constantly tinkering with the rules to try and make the sport more exciting and less one sided at certain meetings. But it obviously isn't working as, sadly, fans are not flocking to the tracks to witness these new rules in action and in fact are creating the opposite. Many hard core fans just want a simple 3,2,1 system of scoring and with a team of riders who, barring injury, turn up at each meeting. Ideally local lads, who the fans and more importantly, the youngsters can relate to. Is that really such a terrible wish? It was what Speedway began with!

 

Spot on Ray is all that to much to ask.?

[John Leslie]

Cricket is a far more complex sport than speedway (try explaining lbw to the uninitiated - even the name is humorous), but its hardcore fans revel in its complexities and nuances. That does not though, stop people enjoying watching the sport at a superficial level, which is basically about hitting a ball around a field.

It's true.

Almost all sport can be watched and appreciated at spectator level with just basic knowledge of the rules. However if you want to go into the rules in depth, you'll find all sports have all manner of complexities that would be hard to explain.

 

Who fully understands the rules of cricket? LBW isn't simple for a newcomer, and who knows the full definition of all 11 ways of being out? What exactly constitutes "hit the ball twice" or "handled the ball"? And cricket is quite simple compared to other sports.

 

Even professional football commentators argue about Offside, which offences require a red card, when a penalty should be given etc.

 

Formula 1 Motor Racing has a massive rule book which no one fully understands and is forever changing and easily puts Speedway's meagre rulebook to shame.

 

But my award for the simplest sport with most complicated rules has to go to Golf. Just for one example, suppose you hit a ball and it lands by some kind of hazard. Look at all the complex rules that dictate whether you can move the hazard, or move the ball, and then how far do you move the ball? One club length? Two club lengths? In which direction? and how long is a club length? (I believe the answer to that last part is "nobody knows").

[Tsunami]

My main concern with threads like this is that the OP is usually telling say newcomers he is trying to get them to come to the sport, but telling them the bad bits that he personally doesn't like or agree with. It seems like an opportunity to pass on your prejudices to the newcomer, who probably decides in hindsight that "if he doesn't like it why should I try it".

 

Opinion is opinion, but let's not kid anybody that explaining what you don't like about a sport, doesn't sound convincing that you were really trying to get them to come to speedway.

 

If you have a 'hobby horse', and keep going on about it, your friends probably say they agree just to shut you up.

 

If I take someone to football, I don't even mention the offside rule, what would be the point, and more importantly, my objectives.

[Ray Stadia]

My main concern with threads like this is that the OP is usually telling say newcomers he is trying to get them to come to the sport, but telling them the bad bits that he personally doesn't like or agree with. It seems like an opportunity to pass on your prejudices to the newcomer, who probably decides in hindsight that "if he doesn't like it why should I try it".

 

Opinion is opinion, but let's not kid anybody that explaining what you don't like about a sport, doesn't sound convincing that you were really trying to get them to come to speedway.

 

If you have a 'hobby horse', and keep going on about it, your friends probably say they agree just to shut you up.

 

If I take someone to football, I don't even mention the offside rule, what would be the point, and more importantly, my objectives.

I agree. If you are trying to entice new fans to the sport, the last thing you want to do is focus on what you consider to be your chosen negatives and impart them on the newbie. However, in my opinion and as what happens with many opening threads, the original subject changes and other thoughts and ideas surface. This often happens on Facebook. Isn't this a healthy thing to happen?