Objects Of Ridicule ?

[Man in black]

I do think the original thread poster has a bit of a point. I think we are at the stage in Speedway where the sport is trying to hang on to being a team sport, but pressure is there for it to be individual only. Until the sport is able to field, virtually, the same team of riders week in, week out and season in, season out, the grumbling will continue. It is getting worse and looking through my rose tinted glasses, didn't happen to the same degree, in the not too distant past.

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...." At that moment I realised that the only difference between individual metings and team meetings is that the rider's points are added together at the end. This single event is one of the main reasons my interest in league speedway has evaporated - if the team members themselves don't care, then why should the fans?

[BWitcher]

I recently had a chat with an old friend who is sports mad, like me. We got around to speedway as is my way, and although he has been to meetings, he isn't a supporter as such.

 

When we got round to who rides for who ( whom ? ) etc he laughed out loud when I tried to explain the way riders can ride for two different teams, in two different leagues, at the same time.

 

To compound the matter even further, when I said riders can also ride for different teams in DIFFERENT countries....at the same time, he nearly fell out his seat. I heard later he had passed the information around and got the same response from everyone. " You must be joking. "

 

You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve.

 

To those of us who are supporters, we see nothing wrong with that, but to outsiders, we must look like the provincial aunt Sallies who are just playing at being " a sport " in the accepted sense. We have little credibility.

 

What to do about it ? Not a lot I fear. Being the dangerous sport it is there's not a lot of riders to go round, hence the current setup, but my goodness, it does look plain daft.

Here we go again.

 

Another made up story.

[skthecat]

I think the doubling up rule needs looking at, especially at the better PL league riders... The first thing that concerns me is that the premier league is no longer ability wise further away from the elite league as it should or meant to be.....

 

The route of a speedway rider should take is:

 

MDL/AJL ETC →NATIONAL LEAGUE → PREMIER LEAGUE → ELITE LEAGUE

 

What happens now is/has turned the Premier League into almost a seperate organisation, no longer the 2nd division in a league set structure, more like Rugby League next to Rugby Union, except the sport rules have no significant differences.. The Premier league now seems choc a block full of 2nd rate foreigners, mostly Danes/Swedes/Aussies/Americans that are at best, 2nd string Elite League riders... And a handfull of youngish British riders that are heading upwards..

Once doubling down was allowed, the rot set in, in the sense the prem league became this seperate entity, the prem league is no longer the stepping stone to the Elite League.. Very few kids are given enough time to develop from reserve, and they dont cut it within a hanful of meetings, they are booted out in favour of a Jonny Foreigner who needs flying in.. Like I say; its no longer a true stepping stone the Elite League racing....

[Conkers in Gravy]

In the 60s, entire teams from England and Scotland set up camp in the USA to compete in a league there, hence the LA Wolves were US champions in 1968 (I think that's the right date).

 

Riders competing for multiple teams is not ideal, but a necessary evil if (and that's a big IF) they are to earn living as a full-time rider.

 

Unfortunately, doubling up/down has developed into a vicious circle which means that riders who can only make speedway pay by racing three or four times a week are blocking the progress of young, homegrown riders. Foreign Elite League second strings (and sometimes heat leaders) are being brought in to PL teams by promoters whose need for guaranteed points outweighs any responsibility he may have to encourage young riders.

 

Maybe it's time we accepted the sport as it is in the UK can support only a handful of full-time speedway riders.

[BWitcher]

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...." At that moment I realised that the only difference between individual metings and team meetings is that the rider's points are added together at the end. This single event is one of the main reasons my interest in league speedway has evaporated - if the team members themselves don't care, then why should the fans?

 

I know of golfers in the Ryder Cup who have said they don't what the overall score is also, they preferred to avoid looking at the scoreboards to concentrate on their own game, for the betterment of the team.

[John Leslie]

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...." At that moment I realised that the only difference between individual metings and team meetings is that the rider's points are added together at the end. This single event is one of the main reasons my interest in league speedway has evaporated - if the team members themselves don't care, then why should the fans?

Surely the job of a rider is to go out and win races/score points. There's enough to think about whilst hurtling round at 70mph, without adding the score up as you go. Keeping score is the manager's job, and if he needs the rider to know the score for tactical purposes, he'll make sure he knows.

 

Are you suggesting that you don't want to a rider trying to win? You'd be happy to watch him trundle round at the back, because he's filled in his programme neatly and knows his team are winning comfortably?

[Ray Stadia]

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...." At that moment I realised that the only difference between individual metings and team meetings is that the rider's points are added together at the end. This single event is one of the main reasons my interest in league speedway has evaporated - if the team members themselves don't care, then why should the fans?

Will there be a day that an EL rider, when interviewed says something like 'am I riding for Belle Vue today?, sorry, I was riding for Coventry last night and got confused'.

Surely the job of a rider is to go out and win races/score points. There's enough to think about whilst hurtling round at 70mph, without adding the score up as you go. Keeping score is the manager's job, and if he needs the rider to know the score for tactical purposes, he'll make sure he knows.

 

Are you suggesting that you don't want to a rider trying to win? You'd be happy to watch him trundle round at the back, because he's filled in his programme neatly and knows his team are winning comfortably?

Probably difficult to fill in any programme 'neatly' as you are not sure who the hell is in the meeting or in the heat! Yes you may get a muffled incoherent notification over the tannoy!

[Humphrey Appleby]

Do you think that riders with multiple team in the UK has in someway assisted in the downfall of our sport? What I mean is when clubs are looking to fill team places, rather than pick a kid, they go for the quick fix option of a rider from another club wanting to double up/down? Therefore closing one of the doors that younger riders or the less experienced riders would have/could have used to get onto the club/league ladder....??

 

In terms of riders doubling-up between British teams, then I think that was more a well-intentioned attempt to address the issue of a lack of riders wanting to ride at the top-level. although it's probably not worked out as planned. I think there are multiple reasons for this - the possibility to make reasonable wages in the lower leagues without progressing, the effectively abolition of second-halves that provided the opportunity for up-and-coming riders to compete against established riders, and the number of imports being brought in for various reasons. Even the sport's golden era though, there was always some doubling-up with the No.8s, and it's preferable to using guests so I don't see it as being a problem in principle.

 

With respect to foreign (and British) riders competing in multiple national leagues, then undoubtedly it does restrict the opportunities for upcoming riders. I think the problem though, is that the amount the British leagues could pay started to become insufficient for riders to make a good living from it alone, which is why they started to look for additional opportunities elsewhere. There's not really a lot that can be done about that though, given the current economic circumstances of the sport.

 

I think in a perfect world, there would be single European League with 12-16 teams from Britain, Poland, Sweden and maybe 2 or 3 other countries. A rider would ride for one team during the season and that would be it, but there would also be a global SGP and maybe regional GP feeder circuits to make-up the fixtures. Lower order riders could potentially double-down or guest for teams in one of the national leagues (which would probably be sort of BPL level), to gain experience or make-up their earnings, but that's as far as riding for multiple teams would go.

Will there be a day that an EL rider, when interviewed says something like 'am I riding for Belle Vue today?, sorry, I was riding for Coventry last night and got confused'.

 

 

I don't know about the riders, but Peter York quite often used to forgot where he was presenting.

 

[BWitcher]

Will there be a day that an EL rider, when interviewed says something like 'am I riding for Belle Vue today?, sorry, I was riding for Coventry last night and got confused'.

Probably difficult to fill in any programme 'neatly' as you are not sure who the hell is in the meeting or in the heat! Yes you may get a muffled incoherent notification over the tannoy!

 

Little tip. The home team wears red and blue helmet covers, the away team white and yellow. You see those numbers they have on their backs? Funnily enough you can match them up in the programme, so filling it in neatly shouldn't be a problem.

 

Sure some of the names may have changed, but I have never, ever been to a meeting and not known. It's either been announced or if for some reason I've arrived late, just ask someone else.

 

More needless nitpicking.

[Humphrey Appleby]

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...."

 

Yes, but before the days of microphones being constantly shoved under the noses of riders, how many riders would have known the score at any given moment? I'm not sure that it's attributable to riding for multiple teams.

What happens now is/has turned the Premier League into almost a seperate organisation, no longer the 2nd division in a league set structure, more like Rugby League next to Rugby Union

Yes, that's the way the Premier League and its fans appear to want it. How many times on here do we read PL supporters saying they shouldn't be expected to bail out the EL etc...?

 

The reality is that the EL and PL should be interdependent, and the health of one is dependent of the health of the other. They should not be in competition with each other, but one accepting they have a symbiotic relationship.

[ten years after]

I recently had a chat with an old friend who is sports mad, like me. We got around to speedway as is my way, and although he has been to meetings, he isn't a supporter as such.

 

When we got round to who rides for who ( whom ? ) etc he laughed out loud when I tried to explain the way riders can ride for two different teams, in two different leagues, at the same time.

 

To compound the matter even further, when I said riders can also ride for different teams in DIFFERENT countries....at the same time, he nearly fell out his seat. I heard later he had passed the information around and got the same response from everyone. " You must be joking. "

 

 

I recently had a chat with an old friend who is sports mad, like me. We got around to speedway as is my way, and although he has been to meetings, he isn't a supporter as such.

 

When we got round to who rides for who ( whom ? ) etc he laughed out loud when I tried to explain the way riders can ride for two different teams, in two different leagues, at the same time.

 

To compound the matter even further, when I said riders can also ride for different teams in DIFFERENT countries....at the same time, he nearly fell out his seat. I heard later he had passed the information around and got the same response from everyone. " You must be joking. "

 

You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve.

 

To those of us who are supporters, we see nothing wrong with that, but to outsiders, we must look like the provincial aunt Sallies who are just playing at being " a sport " in the accepted sense. We have little credibility.

 

What to do about it ? Not a lot I fear. Being the dangerous sport it is there's not a lot of riders to go round, hence the current setup, but my goodness, it does look plain daft.

You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve.

 

To those of us who are supporters, we see nothing wrong with that, but to outsiders, we must look like the provincial aunt Sallies who are just playing at being " a sport " in the accepted sense. We have little credibility.

 

What to do about it ? Not a lot I fear. Being the dangerous sport it is there's not a lot of riders to go round, hence the current setup, but my goodness, it does look plain daft.

 

Nothing wrong with Aunt Sallie especially if you come from Oxford.

[ten years after]

Do you think that riders with multiple team in the UK has in someway assisted in the downfall of our sport? What I mean is when clubs are looking to fill team places, rather than pick a kid, they go for the quick fix option of a rider from another club wanting to double up/down? Therefore closing one of the doors that younger riders or the less experienced riders would have/could have used to get onto the club/league ladder....??

Oxford proved this point in 2005

[The White Knight]

Why is it farcical? Not everything is like football, and playing for different teams is not entirely without precedent in other sports, or even within football for that matter.

 

Cricketers can play for several teams during the same year - county cricket, provincial/state cricket, IPL, grade cricket, before you even take national sides into account. I believe table tennis players also go around playing for multiple teams in different national leagues at the same time, and happens in motor racing as well (also less than it used to).

 

Even in football there are examples of players competing in summer and winter leagues for different teams, albeit not at the same time, but you can certainly find players in the lower echelons of non-league football who'll play for Saturday and Sunday teams.

 

Riding in multiple competitions is a practical necessity in speedway to make a living, and until the sport can pay sufficiently for a rider to commit to a single competition, then the situation is not going to change. Even before foreign leagues came along, riders took guest and open bookings or disappeared off to the longtrack/grasstrack scene to supplement their earnings. Until speedway really wants to run a serious Champions League-type competition, then I don't really see the problem.

 

That is the end of the argument as far as I am concerned. You've hit the nail on the head Humphrey.

 

I think the doubling up rule needs looking at, especially at the better PL league riders... The first thing that concerns me is that the premier league is no longer ability wise further away from the elite league as it should or meant to be.....

 

The route of a speedway rider should take is:

 

MDL/AJL ETC →NATIONAL LEAGUE → PREMIER LEAGUE → ELITE LEAGUE

 

What happens now is/has turned the Premier League into almost a seperate organisation, no longer the 2nd division in a league set structure, more like Rugby League next to Rugby Union, except the sport rules have no significant differences.. The Premier league now seems choc a block full of 2nd rate foreigners, mostly Danes/Swedes/Aussies/Americans that are at best, 2nd string Elite League riders... And a handfull of youngish British riders that are heading upwards..

Once doubling down was allowed, the rot set in, in the sense the prem league became this seperate entity, the prem league is no longer the stepping stone to the Elite League.. Very few kids are given enough time to develop from reserve, and they dont cut it within a hanful of meetings, they are booted out in favour of a Jonny Foreigner who needs flying in.. Like I say; its no longer a true stepping stone the Elite League racing....

 

Not a lot to argue with here - you are right.

[Ray Stadia]

 

Little tip. The home team wears red and blue helmet covers, the away team white and yellow. You see those numbers they have on their backs? Funnily enough you can match them up in the programme, so filling it in neatly shouldn't be a problem.

 

Sure some of the names may have changed, but I have never, ever been to a meeting and not known. It's either been announced or if for some reason I've arrived late, just ask someone else.

 

More needless nitpicking.

'Some' of the names may have changed? I think you will find at some meetings 'many' have changed. It may sound like nit-picking, but many forum members complain about team member inconsistency. How long will they remain fans before calling it a day? Perhaps it is a bit like the old Eric Morecombe gag 'all of the team will be riding for the Club, but not necessarily at the same meeting'.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Ray Stadia

[billybikespeedway]

Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders.

Please Someone Delete This post Before someone from the BSPA reads It

[Ray Stadia]

Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders.

 

Please Someone Delete This post Before someone from the BSPA reads It

Moto Ball! A great interval entertainment! I remember seeing it in the MCN years ago, 'spot the ball' contest. Never seen it advertised though. Is it still going?

[Humphrey Appleby]

'Some' of the names may have changed? I think you will find at some meetings 'many' have changed.

Yep, but how different is that to football? In fact, in how many sports are the competitors not expected to change from match-to-match?

 

I'd agree it's more annoying in speedway because of the programme and heat format, but a lot of that could potentially be resolved with an electronic scoreboard or even smartphone apps.

[albyhere]

To those who responded to my original post and actually read the thing, and actually got the point, I thank you. To the rest who goodness knows where in left field they reside, with their personal and sarcastic non sequiturs, let me put it in simple terms, just for those who may be a wee bit hard of thinking.

 

I was referring to TEAM riding. Not individuals. Each rider can and does take bookings where he can get them, and good luck to them. I was talking about how a rider could turn out for one TEAM one night ( or day, ) then the very next night, turn out for another TEAM, in a different lLEAGUE. Then the very next night, turn out for yet another TEAM in, incredibly, another COUNTRY altogether. Now translate that to a footballer or whatever in your TEAM and ask yourself how it would look. As stated originally, if perhaps say, Rooney turned out for Man. U. one game, then another night for Reading, then another day for Galatasary. A farce no ?

 

My point was that it loses our sport credibility in the eyes of the general sporting public. There is, despite certain isolated cases quoted here, NO other sport where this happens to the extent that it does in speedway. Be it football, used here as an EXAMPLE, or rugby, or any TEAM sport you can think of.

 

I totally agree with the comments that it is one of the reasons why we have a dearth of home grown talent. Promoters just take anyone almost who can ride a bike to a certain degree of competence, rather than risk nurturing a young BRITISH rider. And unfortunately, this is with the blessing of the ruling body of the sport.

 

Oh and by the way, I was asked how it works.

[E I Addio]

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...." At that moment I realised that the only difference between individual metings and team meetings is that the rider's points are added together at the end. This single event is one of the main reasons my interest in league speedway has evaporated - if the team members themselves don't care, then why should the fans?

 

I have on DVD an interview with Stuart Robson after a critical heat in a close match in which he said "I have absolutely no idea what the score is." The reason was he had been out 3 times in about 5 or 6 heats and checking the score was low on his list of priorities when he had probably no more than 7 or 8 minutes between races to get himself and his bike sorted and re-focussed on his next ride before going out again. If you had any idea at all what goes on in the pits you would know why the riders, more often than not, don't necessarily know what the team score is at a particular moment in a match.

Edited December 3, 2013 by E I Addio

[Ray Stadia]

 

I have on DVD an interview with Stuart Robson after a critical heat in a close match in which he said "I have absolutely no idea what the score is." The reason was he had been out 3 times in about 5 or 6 heats and checking the score was low on his list of priorities when he had probably no more than 7 or 8 minutes between races to get himself and his bike sorted and re-focussed on his next ride before going out again. If you had any idea at all what goes on in the pits you would know why the riders, more often than not, don't necessarily know what the team score is at a particular moment in a match.

I suppose at the end of the day it is the captain and team manager's responsibility to keep check on the score and if need be, relay the info to the riders as necessary.