albyhere Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I recently had a chat with an old friend who is sports mad, like me. We got around to speedway as is my way, and although he has been to meetings, he isn't a supporter as such. When we got round to who rides for who ( whom ? ) etc he laughed out loud when I tried to explain the way riders can ride for two different teams, in two different leagues, at the same time. To compound the matter even further, when I said riders can also ride for different teams in DIFFERENT countries....at the same time, he nearly fell out his seat. I heard later he had passed the information around and got the same response from everyone. " You must be joking. " You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve. To those of us who are supporters, we see nothing wrong with that, but to outsiders, we must look like the provincial aunt Sallies who are just playing at being " a sport " in the accepted sense. We have little credibility. What to do about it ? Not a lot I fear. Being the dangerous sport it is there's not a lot of riders to go round, hence the current setup, but my goodness, it does look plain daft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Understand your point but it only looks daft when there is a competitive pyramid within the sport. So in football for example Teams from different leagues can compete against each other in Cup competitions, European competitions and through promotion and relegation. None of this really applies to speedway allowing the self employed rider to earn his crust wherever he is wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John Leslie Posted December 3, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) A friend asked if I knew a plumber who could look at his boiler. I said "Why don't you try Bob from down the road, he always does any plumbing I need". He said "Isn't that a bit silly? After all he's your plumber. Wouldn't it appear ludicrous if he's working for you and then doing another job for me in a different street" I said "No. Working for me on a Monday shouldn't stop him doing an entirely unrelated job for you on Tuesday. He's just a self employed contractor and they're his own tools" He said "Yes. you're right" He said "I'm glad we've had this conversation" I said "Ah, but have we really had this conversation? Or is it in your mind?" He said "What do you mean?" I said "Well, I've heard that sometimes that people make up pretend conversations, just to post on the internet to try to make a point that doesn't really have any substance" Edited December 3, 2013 by John Leslie 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 My mate explained Tennis to me the other day. the guy who wins the most points can lose the set and the guy who wins the most sets can lose the game and the guy who wins the most games can lose the match. Madness I tell you, madness! I saw a football match the other day but a goal was disallowed because the player had the nouse the stay ahead of all of theres. Madness. All sports have their weird quirks. The trick is NOT to go into them with a newbie. I swear speedway fans love telling their mates about TRs, guests and rider riding in more than one country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve. Why is it farcical? Not everything is like football, and playing for different teams is not entirely without precedent in other sports, or even within football for that matter. Cricketers can play for several teams during the same year - county cricket, provincial/state cricket, IPL, grade cricket, before you even take national sides into account. I believe table tennis players also go around playing for multiple teams in different national leagues at the same time, and happens in motor racing as well (also less than it used to). Even in football there are examples of players competing in summer and winter leagues for different teams, albeit not at the same time, but you can certainly find players in the lower echelons of non-league football who'll play for Saturday and Sunday teams. Riding in multiple competitions is a practical necessity in speedway to make a living, and until the sport can pay sufficiently for a rider to commit to a single competition, then the situation is not going to change. Even before foreign leagues came along, riders took guest and open bookings or disappeared off to the longtrack/grasstrack scene to supplement their earnings. Until speedway really wants to run a serious Champions League-type competition, then I don't really see the problem. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Jockeys are one of the nearest equivalents of Speedway riders.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Maybe if punters could pay the £60+ a ticket that football charges, clubs could then pay riders enough so that they don't need to ride all over the place ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders. I am sure we can all start laughing now - but football has it, its called offside. That's not to be critical, but to make the point that any comparison between the rules of different sports are flawed from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I saw a football match the other day but a goal was disallowed because the player had the nouse the stay ahead of all of theres. 'Away goals count double' claim the commentators, erm... except they don't. Can't score a goal (even own goals) from some types of free kicks, but you can from others. What a daft sport.. the guy who wins the most sets can lose the game Erm... I'm not sure that's true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders. At least two bikes have to be between you and finish line to not be offside in speedway, and you can only pass backwards... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Erm... I'm not sure that's true... Damn, the guy who wins the most sets can lose the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Damn, the guy who wins the most sets can lose the match.Still wrong! Think you're trying to say that the guy who wins most points can still lose a set, and the guy who wins most games can still lose the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 My mate explained Tennis to me the other day. the guy who wins the most points can lose the set and the guy who wins the most sets can lose the game and the guy who wins the most games can lose the match. Madness I tell you, madness!Did he tell you why it goes from 15-30-40? That has always bugged me far more than it should! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I do think the original thread poster has a bit of a point. I think we are at the stage in Speedway where the sport is trying to hang on to being a team sport, but pressure is there for it to be individual only. Until the sport is able to field, virtually, the same team of riders week in, week out and season in, season out, the grumbling will continue. It is getting worse and looking through my rose tinted glasses, didn't happen to the same degree, in the not too distant past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skthecat Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it farcical? Not everything is like football, and playing for different teams is not entirely without precedent in other sports, or even within football for that matter. Cricketers can play for several teams during the same year - county cricket, provincial/state cricket, IPL, grade cricket, before you even take national sides into account. I believe table tennis players also go around playing for multiple teams in different national leagues at the same time, and happens in motor racing as well (also less than it used to). Even in football there are examples of players competing in summer and winter leagues for different teams, albeit not at the same time, but you can certainly find players in the lower echelons of non-league football who'll play for Saturday and Sunday teams. Riding in multiple competitions is a practical necessity in speedway to make a living, and until the sport can pay sufficiently for a rider to commit to a single competition, then the situation is not going to change. Even before foreign leagues came along, riders took guest and open bookings or disappeared off to the longtrack/grasstrack scene to supplement their earnings. Until speedway really wants to run a serious Champions League-type competition, then I don't really see the problem. Do you think that riders with multiple team in the UK has in someway assisted in the downfall of our sport? What I mean is when clubs are looking to fill team places, rather than pick a kid, they go for the quick fix option of a rider from another club wanting to double up/down? Therefore closing one of the doors that younger riders or the less experienced riders would have/could have used to get onto the club/league ladder....?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Did he tell you why it goes from 15-30-40? That has always bugged me far more than it should! Blame the French! The story as I understand it is that the French used to score using a clock face, with the hands moving a quarter of the way to 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and the game won when the hand gets back to o'clock. Then they decided to introduce "deuce" so that a player had to win by 2 points. So they moved 45 back to 40, and introduced a 50 minute mark for the advantage. Back to the original topic. Denis Compton played Cricket for both Middlesex and the MCC and football for Arsenal. Manchester United defender Arnold Sidebottom played cricket for both Yorkshire and the Orange Free State Ian Botham played cricket for Somerset and football for Scunthorpe. AP McCoy won 4,000 horse races, but they were different horses and belonged to different owners and different trainers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Speedway is the same as any sport ..you always see premier league sides in football replaced two of there side with Non league players ..it's the way forward . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it farcical? Not everything is like football, and playing for different teams is not entirely without precedent in other sports, or even within football for that matter. Cricketers can play for several teams during the same year - county cricket, provincial/state cricket, IPL, grade cricket, before you even take national sides into account. I believe table tennis players also go around playing for multiple teams in different national leagues at the same time, and happens in motor racing as well (also less than it used to). Exactly Hump! Speedway is not football so comparing it to that sport is frankly as ridiculous as the guys mate thought speedway was. And he must be a pretty dull bloke if he then went and bothered to explain a sport he did not give a toss about to others who did not give a toss about it. I would avoid someone like that like a plague victim If someone started explaining golf to me I would tell them to stop and not bother as it is of no interest to me so dunno why the guy seemed keen to get tot he bit where who rides for who. Speedway is 4 guys going round a track for 4 laps at speed. The rest for a non fan is superfluous. If you find it attractive then worry about it's idiosyncrasies later, if not just forget it exists and don't bore people about it It's called trying to make a living and I don't begrudge one of those lads (or lasses) a penny they make. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Still wrong! Think you're trying to say that the guy who wins most points can still lose a set, and the guy who wins most games can still lose the match. Double damn. But all I have proved even better than I thought I could is that tennis scoring is damn confusing if you want it to be. But in reality, it's not if you have half a brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Double damn. But all I have proved even better than I thought I could is that tennis scoring is damn confusing if you want it to be. But in reality, it's not if you have half a brain. That would depend on WHICH half you had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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