E I Addio Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 No, it has nothing to do with the sportsmen with the most personality at all. The award is for the most succesful sportsmen (who happen to be personalities within their sport) in the given year. Having done a little research it seems we were both wrong and the award is for the sportsperson who has most captured the publics imagination.. Even that is a bit of a nebulous term but I would have thought that someone who wins any sort of World Championship with a twice broken collar bone must have an irrefutable case to be included, unless you throw in the fact that most of the public are unaware of who he is but that surely must apply also to Ainslie and a whole range of other sports. When the programme was first introduced in 1954 it was limited to those sports shown on BBC's Sportsview programme, so as Speedway is no longer featured on BBC that might have something to do with it.. I seem to recall that when Mark Loram won the World title he didn't even get a mention. Whichever way you look at it the inclusion of Ben Ainslie , and a few of the others without widening out to a wider range of voters choices reduces it to a stitch-up IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skthecat Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Hmmmmmm, popular / unpopular sports with recognised video console games Exist Football Cricket Golf Sailing Darts Snooker Bob Sleighing Skiing Boxing Billiards Athletics Ice Skating Bowls Formula 1, 3 Moto GP Moto X All above on most popular consoles Don't Exist Speedway Racing (motorcycle) Hurling Feel free to add to dont exist.... This is another sign that we just aint popular!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) But Murray may potentially play 4 matches in 4 days, and those matches will be 2-3 hours plus. The average amount of time spent riding in a speedway meeting is 5-6 minutes, even if those 5-6 minutes will be all-out exertion. I didn't suggest speedway wasn't dangerous, but my point was that riders must compartmentalise that danger. If they thought about the consequences each time they went out, they wouldn't do it. In fact, I do a bit of competitive karting and whilst it's undoubtedly much safer than speedway, there's probably someone killed every few years which isn't far off the death rate in speedway. If I thought about the danger every time I went out, I simply wouldn't be able to race properly, but I've enough confidence in my equipment and ability to feel I can minimise the risk. I don't put it in the same league as speedway, but I've little doubt the same thought processes apply. My first point was 4 countries in 4 days in referring to the demands of travel - quite separate from the physical demand. Riders have pulled out of British speedway for that reason. My second was that while I agree that riders don't think about injury (as you rightly say, you simply can't) it is one that no tennis player will ever face - at least not to the same degree. Speedway is littered with riders who have got injured and who have never been the same again, and my understanding is that the main reason Joe Haines quit last year was because of the awful injuries that his friend Ricky Ashworth sustained. As I also said, however confident you might be in your own ability, you're not out there alone. Even if you never make a mistake, you could still end up paying the ultimate price. Brushing aside the possibility of injury so easily and suggesting that it does not constitute a significant demand on a speedway rider is, I think, very wrong. As I said before unless your on fast bikes or a fast car you won't win nowt in Motor sport so in pure skill terms you can never be sure who the best is unlike other sports ...By the way I expect the time Murray spends in one match on court would Double the amount of Tai spends on track in one week . The fact that Speedway fans even try to put Speedway up against massive sports like Tennis shows how out of touch they are . I think that it would be difficult to determine who is actually the very best...........but, to me, there's no doubt that if bikes were standardised the current top riders would still be the top riders. That means skill is of the utmost importance. The only reason I compared tennis to speedway was on the demands of the sport (which was mentioned several pages back). True, the level of fitness required at the top level of tennis is greater than that required of a top speedway rider, but that's just one factor. The sheer courage and daring required of speedway riders is something that tennis players do not need, and that's why I think the demands placed upon a speedway rider are far higher overall. Its not quite as simple as this, but all of us can cope with the demands of playing tennis. Very few can cope with those of riding speedway. Edited December 1, 2013 by Halifaxtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 My second was that while I agree that riders don't think about injury (as you rightly say, you simply can't) it is one that no tennis player will ever face - at least not to the same degree. Speedway is littered with riders who have got injured and who have never been the same again I think you could say the same about any physical professional sport. I'd agree there's more risk of death and paralysis in speedway than tennis, but I'm not sure there's much more risk of injury per se. Speedway is fairly dangerous, but I think there are other sports like 3-day eventing, powerboating, downhill skiing and possibly even American football, rugby and certain forms of sailing that more dangerous. Tennis players are forced to withdraw from tournaments and even retire all the time because of injury, and in fact many simply 'burn out' from the demands of the professional circuit. Bear in mind also, that speedway riders can still compete with fairly serious injuries that other sportspeople simply can't. There are probably a roughly equivalent number of professional speedway riders and tennis professionals on the global circuit (although there's probably a bigger semi-pro circuit in tennis), so injury rates should be comparable on a like-for-like basis. my understanding is that the main reason Joe Haines quit last year was because of the awful injuries that his friend Ricky Ashworth sustained. As I said, when you start thinking about the risks then you're on your way to being finished in the sport. Hans Nielsen was never quite the same rider after Erik Gundersen was injured, and although he was a very safe rider who hardly ever got injured in his career, I suspect the consequences may well have started playing on his mind. It's unfortunately a mental thing which you can't always control, but maybe the best speedway riders are the ones who can best compartmentalise the risk factor, and keep doing it year-after-year even after they've had injuries. I don't think this is something unique to speedway though. Its not quite as simple as this, but all of us can cope with the demands of playing tennis. Very few can cope with those of riding speedway. I doubt many of us could cope with the demands of playing on the professional tennis circuit, even if we could knock a ball over the net to a reasonable standard. I would agree that riding speedway in multiple countries requires a high degree of organisation which is largely the responsibility of the riders (unlike some other sports where clubs chaperone their players around), and the hectic nature of the schedule means there's less time to recover from injuries that get incurred, but fact that it's possible to ride 4 meetings in 4 days shows the levels of physical exertion can't be as high as for football or rugby etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I love sport. Yes, I love some sports more than others - obviously Speedway & Football plus Rugby League are higher up for me than , say, Tennis and Horse Racing. But, as I say, I do love basically all sport. So I have to say when Andy Murray won Wimbledon I recognised - as the huge majority of people in the country did - the enormity of the achievement: British's sport's longest wait (since the World Heavyweight voodoo was lifted by Lennox & Frank and then Wiggins winning the Tour De France last year) for a victory in a specific, very major event. And THAT is why Murray will win SPOTY - NOT because of any 'conspiracy' or defeciency in the 'rules'. It does Speedway fans no credit to be so anti other sports - you'd have thought considering the prejudice we face as a sport ourselves, we above all others would demonstrate a good attitude that says, 'live and let live'.. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I love sport. Yes, I love some sports more than others - obviously Speedway & Football plus Rugby League are higher up for me than , say, Tennis and Horse Racing. But, as I say, I do love basically all sport. So I have to say when Andy Murray won Wimbledon I recognised - as the huge majority of people in the country did - the enormity of the achievement: British's sport's longest wait (since the World Heavyweight voodoo was lifted by Lennox & Frank and then Wiggins winning the Tour De France last year) for a victory in a specific, very major event. And THAT is why Murray will win SPOTY - NOT because of any 'conspiracy' or defeciency in the 'rules'. It does Speedway fans no credit to be so anti other sports - you'd have thought considering the prejudice we face as a sport ourselves, we above all others would demonstrate a good attitude that says, 'live and let live'.. Very true Parsloes. I still cannot understand how Ainslie got in ahead of Woffinden though. I am not having a go at Sailing here, just at the System that allows someone who has done virtually nothing this year, to be in the running ahead of one of our few World Champions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I love sport. Yes, I love some sports more than others - obviously Speedway & Football plus Rugby League are higher up for me than , say, Tennis and Horse Racing. But, as I say, I do love basically all sport. No Rugby league player nominated. Even though in Sam Burgess and James Graham we have the 2 best props in World RL and prob the best full back in Sam Tompkins. Don't know if in the days of 'The Talking Trilby' and the BBC's Floodlit RL Trophy any RL players were nominated. I do know that a few RU players have been in the frame. How Johnny 'drop goal' Wilkinson won it and the magnificent Springbok conquering Lions skipper WJ Mc Bride only came 3rd is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 No Rugby league player nominated. Even though in Sam Burgess and James Graham we have the 2 best props in World RL and prob the best full back in Sam Tompkins. Don't know if in the days of 'The Talking Trilby' and the BBC's Floodlit RL Trophy any RL players were nominated. I do know that a few RU players have been in the frame. How Johnny 'drop goal' Wilkinson won it and the magnificent Springbok conquering Lions skipper WJ Mc Bride only came 3rd is beyond me. The World Cup came too late - can you imagine if we'd held on in the semi, played the Aussies yesterday and won... Not actually that big a leap in imagination..! Then clearly one of team (and I'd say Sam Burgess...) would be applicable to be nominated for SPOTY but by then it would've been too late! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Hmmmmmm, popular / unpopular sports with recognised video console games Exist Football Cricket Golf Sailing Darts Snooker Bob Sleighing Skiing Boxing Billiards Athletics Ice Skating Bowls Formula 1, 3 Moto GP Moto X All above on most popular consoles Don't Exist Speedway Racing (motorcycle) Hurling Feel free to add to dont exist.... This is another sign that we just aint popular!! kabbadi.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 The World Cup came too late - can you imagine if we'd held on in the semi, played the Aussies yesterday and won... Not really. The Australians have won it seemingly forever, and the winner is about as much a foregone conclusion as you can get in any sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Not really. The Australians have won it seemingly forever, and the winner is about as much a foregone conclusion as you can get in NZ won the last one!! The World Cup came too late - can you imagine if we'd held on in the semi, played the Aussies yesterday and won... Not actually that big a leap in imagination..! Then clearly one of team (and I'd say Sam Burgess...) would be applicable to be nominated for SPOTY but by then it would've been too late! If we had played a recognised half back instead of sinfield we would have made the final no probs and it would have been close against the aussies. McNamara cocked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 NZ won the last one!! If we had played a recognised half back instead of sinfield we would have made the final no probs and it would have been close against the aussies. McNamara cocked up. The greatest please I got from the Rugby League World Cup was from the matches between the minor nations, especially Scotland's two games at Derwent Park. They were well-matched sporting events, unlike those at the higher level. Now I wonder which sport that reminds me of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Sinfield was certainly the weak link. Missed the conversion and missed the tackle with 20 seconds to go. Am afraid he now has a total mental block when it comes to playing at Wembley.. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) Hmmmmmm, popular / unpopular sports with recognised video console games Exist Football Cricket Golf Sailing Darts Snooker Bob Sleighing Skiing Boxing Billiards Athletics Ice Skating Bowls Formula 1, 3 Moto GP Moto X All above on most popular consoles Don't Exist Speedway Racing (motorcycle) Hurling Feel free to add to dont exist.... This is another sign that we just aint popular Roshambo ,, for those who have never seen it .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcVI64IbkIs Edited December 2, 2013 by speedibee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Speedway Racing (motorcycle) Not a console version admittedly, but there is actually a speedway game for the PC - apparently officially licensed by the SGP - and I think iOS and Android versions have been announced. I don't think speedway really lends itself to a good console game though, even taking into account the limited market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hmmmmmm, popular / unpopular sports with recognised video console games Exist Football Cricket Golf Sailing Darts Snooker Bob Sleighing Skiing Boxing Billiards Athletics Ice Skating Bowls Formula 1, 3 Moto GP Moto X All above on most popular consoles Don't Exist Speedway Racing (motorcycle) Hurling Feel free to add to dont exist.... This is another sign that we just aint popular!! What about Tennis? I'm stuck on 'Pong' . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hmmmmmm, popular / unpopular sports with recognised video console games Exist Football Cricket Golf Sailing Darts Snooker Bob Sleighing Skiing Boxing Billiards Athletics Ice Skating Bowls Formula 1, 3 Moto GP Moto X All above on most popular consoles Don't Exist Speedway Racing (motorcycle) Hurling Feel free to add to dont exist.... This is another sign that we just aint popular!! What is the title of the Sailing console game out of interest? I know of PC games, but not console. Speedway also has quite a number of PC games. Not a console version admittedly, but there is actually a speedway game for the PC - apparently officially licensed by the SGP - and I think iOS and Android versions have been announced. I don't think speedway really lends itself to a good console game though, even taking into account the limited market. Oops, hadn't seen this. You are correct, there have been a number of speedway games on the PC. A series of games by Techland, who provided the official licenced version. There are versions on iOS available now too.. not sure about Android but I assume there is. Also a game called Extreme Speedway from a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skthecat Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Never been done in scalextric form either, I have a moto x version made by Mattel, its actually quite playable, thw bikes and riders are mounted on small bogies, and broadside corners! Think its called Moto x extreme or similar, got it about 15yrs ago, was going to try and adapt the thing to simulate speedway riders and bikes but never got around to it.... Its quite a rare set now. ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Never been done in scalextric form either, I have a moto x version made by Mattel, its actually quite playable, thw bikes and riders are mounted on small bogies, and broadside corners! The trouble with a speedway version of Scalextric is that on an oval circuit, the outer tracks will always have to travel further than the inner ones. That's why slot racing tracks are either configured as a figure-of-eight or have a crossover. I suppose you could also implement crossovers in a speedway version, or have a TCR-style track that allows bikes to change lanes. Even better if the track was cambered to give the outside line a bit of an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skthecat Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 The trouble with a speedway version of Scalextric is that on an oval circuit, the outer tracks will always have to travel further than the inner ones. That's why slot racing tracks are either configured as a figure-of-eight or have a crossover. I suppose you could also implement crossovers in a speedway version, or have a TCR-style track that allows bikes to change lanes. Even better if the track was cambered to give the outside line a bit of an advantage. Have you seen the olympic cycling scalextric set? Its oval but squared, so you have 4 corners and 4 straights, 2 long + 2 very short..... Don't think it took off very well either. . It was around £80+ when it was launched, you can pick a set up for £14.99 at "The Entertainer" toy shop in Leicester now.. That was banked as well. I have got in my attic a huge box of black track, mostly tcx/narrow guage track, not sure the other brand.. might have enough to build a 4 lane oval but the corners would not work because of their inner/outer angles. .. what with that lot, my xtrem moto set, my micro scalextric "Demon Flyers" set, mt Evel Kneivel toy, RC ducatti desmo, RC Dalek, Flying primeval rex! Bit of a kid at heart, perhaps I might have a go at making a speedway oval for the extreme moto x bikes/riders!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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