Bbc Sports Personality Of The Year

[Guest]

One thing we should perhaps remember is that the contenders for SPOTY were selected by a panel which contained four BBC employees and the other eight from a mixed bunch of sporting people from different backgrounds. So the fault, if there is one in Tai not being selected is not just at the BBC, or the BSPA, it is much more due to the low profile of speedway in general. That is the problem which needs to be tackled. So, when the new season is under way it may be time to write a nice polite letter to your daily newspaper of choice complaining of the lack of speedway coverage. If enough people complain the Press do listen. Remember the Express column some years ago by Nigel Pearson. That was due to a campaign by a group of fans of which I was pleased to be a member. Unfortunately the Express column came to a sticky end when the newspaper was taken over by Richard Desmond.

 

Perhaps he analysed how many people nationwide were Daily Express readers, how many people attended speedway nationwide, how the two proportions matched in regard to potential speedway followers reading the DE and came to the conclusion "not very many".

Edited November 28, 2013 by Guest

[Steve_R]

Tom Sykes (WSB Champion) would also have been a worthy SPOTY nominee. Still, not need to get worked up over it.

[orion]

Even if you pick holes in the top ten there are loads more hi profile people who have missed out ..like Taylor ,Ronnie O'Sullivan and Froch to name but a few .

 

Winning a World Title in Speedway means nowt to anyone bar people in Speedway ..some people are just clueless on how little Speedway means to people these days .

[Elephantman]

One thing we should perhaps remember is that the contenders for SPOTY were selected by a panel which contained four BBC employees and the other eight from a mixed bunch of sporting people from different backgrounds. So the fault, if there is one in Tai not being selected is not just at the BBC, or the BSPA, it is much more due to the low profile of speedway in general. That is the problem which needs to be tackled. So, when the new season is under way it may be time to write a nice polite letter to your daily newspaper of choice complaining of the lack of speedway coverage. If enough people complain the Press do listen. Remember the Express column some years ago by Nigel Pearson. That was due to a campaign by a group of fans of which I was pleased to be a member. Unfortunately the Express column came to a sticky end when the newspaper was taken over by Richard Desmond.

As happens a lot with Desmond's publications and his employees!

[John Leslie]

something like 2 million plus adults are/have been involved in sailing activities.

A tiny percentage compared to the number of people who have ridden a motorbike.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Perhaps he analysed how many people nationwide were Daily Express readers, how many people attended speedway nationwide, how the two proportions matched in regard to potential speedway followers reading the DE and came to the conclusion "not very many".

Maybe it was all the shouting...

A tiny percentage compared to the number of people who have ridden a motorbike.

 

Ermm.. but how many of those would have ridden a speedway bike? The only similarities between road bikes and speedway bikes are two wheels and a engine.

[Elephantman]

A tiny percentage compared to the number of people who have ridden a motorbike.

Or driven a car; or rode a bicycle. There is no link between the numbers of people who ride motorbikes and the number of people who support speedway. A totally spurious post.

[BWitcher]

Sailing is huge! Over 1,500 Clubs and something like 2 million plus adults are/have been involved in sailing activities. Speedway doesn't even touch on those numbers.

As a participation activity, that is somewhat different.

 

Totally irrelevant to sailing as a 'sport'.

 

Perhaps he analysed how many people nationwide were Daily Express readers, how many people attended speedway nationwide, how the two proportions matched in regard to potential speedway followers reading the DE and came to the conclusion "not very many".

Did the BBC and other press outlets with their non stop bombardment of Americas Cup coverage stop and say.. Hang on.. nobody bothered to watch this thing, perhaps they aren't interested?

 

No, they didn't. Its a posh sport that will get covered, its how the media work.

Or driven a car; or rode a bicycle. There is no link between the numbers of people who ride motorbikes and the number of people who support speedway. A totally spurious post.

As spurious as your post.

Even if you pick holes in the top ten there are loads more hi profile people who have missed out ..like Taylor ,Ronnie O'Sullivan and Froch to name but a few .

 

Winning a World Title in Speedway means nowt to anyone bar people in Speedway ..some people are just clueless on how little Speedway means to people these days .

Most people are clueless until they are informed about something.

 

Therein lies the issue, the selective nature. People know about some athletes because they have no choice not to know about it, Ainslie and the Americas Cup is the perfect example. Mass media coverage for something that the viewing figures showed, very very few people actually gave a stuff about. However that coverage further keeps the name Ben Ainslie on peoples brains. Its the same principle as in advertising and product recognition.

 

Again, I am not saying Woffinden should have been on the list, there are many other worthy candidates that you point out. However I will say that he, Taylor, O'Sullivan etc are ALL more worthy than Ainslie.

 

In fact I will go as far as to say Ainslie's inclusion in the list is the most farcical in the history of the competition.

[Elephantman]

As a participation activity, that is somewhat different.

 

Totally irrelevant to sailing as a 'sport'.

 

Did the BBC and other press outlets with their non stop bombardment of Americas Cup coverage stop and say.. Hang on.. nobody bothered to watch this thing, perhaps they aren't interested?

 

No, they didn't. Its a posh sport that will get covered, its how the media work.

 

As spurious as your post.

It's so unlike you to let blind prejudice get in the way of facts and logic. I suggest you check the facts before you post; but bearing in mind the experience of reading your comments, on threads where I have commented, I'm not holding my breath

 

In the 1970's my local comprehensive took us sailing; it wasn't posh; we even had a speedway track that was local to us!

[BWitcher]

It's so unlike you to let blind prejudice get in the way of facts and logic. I suggest you check the facts before you post; but bearing in mind the experience of reading your comments, on threads where I have commented, I'm not holding my breath

 

In the 1970's my local comprehensive took us sailing; it wasn't posh; we even had a speedway track that was local to us!

The facts are Elephantman, the Americas Cup, the 'pinnacle of sailing'. An event that was given massive media coverage. An event that the final race was being billed as 'the greatest comeback in sporting history'..

 

Despite all this only 30,000 people bothered to watch it...

 

Now, we know how even speedway fans feel about the Elite League and the state it is in, yet in the same week that attracted 72,000 viewers.. that tells me more than enough how much the public actually do care about sailing and the 'achievement' of Ainslie last year.

 

Those are facts. Not predjudice. Stone cold facts. Very few people cared.

Edited November 28, 2013 by BWitcher

[John Leslie]

Or driven a car; or rode a bicycle. There is no link between the numbers of people who ride motorbikes and the number of people who support speedway. A totally spurious post.

It's the exact same link as that between anyone who has ever rowed a boat on the local lake and anyone who has competed for sport in Ben thingy's olympic standard yacht.

 

So what in essence you are saying is that your post about "2 million people having partaken in a sailing activity" was totally spurious.

 

I'm glad you agree. That's the point I was making.

Ermm.. but how many of those would have ridden a speedway bike? The only similarities between road bikes and speedway bikes are two wheels and a engine.

Probably very few. But erm....How many of Elephantman's 2 million people who have taken part in a boating activity have sailed an olympic class yacht?

 

I was merely pointing out that claiming millions of people are interested in Olympic yachting because they've been for a sail in a boat, is the same as claiming tens of millions are interested in Speedway because they've had a ride on a bike.

[BWitcher]

Don't forget also John, there were no Olympics this year.

[Humphrey Appleby]

No, they didn't. Its a posh sport that will get covered, its how the media work.

I personally find sailing duller than ditchwater to watch, but why should 'posh' sports not get covered? We're subjected to an unremitting diet of football most of the time, and I don't think it unreasonable that other sports, especially traditional ones, get a look-in occasionally. The BBC in particular should have a duty to cover minority sports as it's a public-funded broadcaster that shouldn't be subject to the same populist pressures.

 

It's certainly true that the BBC seems to have been indifferent about speedway for long time, but I hardly think that pulling sailing off television is going to miraculously change their policy in this respect. And I suspect speedway must take a lot of responsibility for not getting itself any sort of visibility that would force the BBC's hand.

 

Triathlon is a sport that arguably didn't exist 30 years ago, yet is now regularly covered by the BBC. Can a sport that basically originated from ironman contests between beach bums be considered posh?

[BWitcher]

I personally find sailing duller than ditchwater to watch, but why should 'posh' sports not get covered? We're subjected to an unremitting diet of football most of the time, and I don't think it unreasonable that other sports, especially traditional ones, get a look-in occasionally. The BBC in particular should have a duty to cover minority sports as it's a public-funded broadcaster that shouldn't be subject to the same populist pressures.

 

It's certainly true that the BBC seems to have been indifferent about speedway for long time, but I hardly think that pulling sailing off television is going to miraculously change their policy in this respect. And I suspect speedway must take a lot of responsibility for not getting itself any sort of visibility that would force the BBC's hand.

 

Triathlon is a sport that arguably didn't exist 30 years ago, yet is now regularly covered by the BBC. Can a sport that basically originated from ironman contests between beach bums be considered posh?

That isn't the complaint Humphrey.

 

All sports deserve some form of coverage in my opinion. The complaint is more the disproportionate coverage given to some sports compared to who is actually interested in them as has been demonstrated on this thread.

 

It's also in relation to those stating Woffinden (and others) shouldn't be on the list because they are from minority sports that few people watch.. or that they shouldn't be there as nobody knows who they are.. they won't know.. till they are told.

[Humphrey Appleby]

The complaint is more the disproportionate coverage given to some sports compared to who is actually interested in them as has been demonstrated on this thread.

It may well come down to how much the BBC has to pay for the rights to various sports, how much time it needs to devote to properly cover a particular sport, or when it needs to fill air time.

 

I think there is a fair amount of interest in competitive sailing in Britain, although I'd agree the Americas Cup itself is generally not of much interest because British teams hardly ever take part. However, the BBC may have got the rights cheaply as a result, and it's a one-off event.

 

Triathlon takes place in the daytime and its events probably nicely interleave with the requirements of Saturday/Sunday daytime viewing. If not, it isn't so widely reported on that it needs to actually be shown live as most people won't be aware when any given event happens. The rights are probably also cheap.

 

By contrast, Speedway GPs are run on Saturday evenings during prime time television when Strictly and Casualty are on. There's just no way that a minority sport is going to displace those sorts of shows on a regular basis, and maybe the 1-2 million per year that IMG/BSI expect for the territorial rights is simply more than they're willing to pay for a minority sport.

[RobMcCaffery]

Again, whatever your views on whether sailing is a worthwhile sport Ben Ainslie has in successive years won Olympic gold and the Americas Cup and received much media attention in the past.

 

I again suspect far more people would be familiar with the Americas Cup than the Speedway Grand Prix

 

It's really a matter of breaking into what you might call a journalistic 'circle' of 'worthwhile' sports. Every cock-up speedway makes just makes that entry barrier higher.

 

I read the autobiography of a particular sports commentator who questioned on his first paper in the 50s why public school 'soccer' and athletics were given such priority. The answer was that it was the way of the world. What in fact was going on that people from a certain social level were reporting on what they and the elitist colleagues were interested in, not what the general public might want.

 

You see this in the disproportionate coverage given to sports like rugby and cricket. Essentially if your sport isn't played at the public schools or in the Olympics you struggle unless you're a huge corporate juggernaut like F1 or are dirt cheap to cover like darts and snooker.

 

The battle for hearts and minds of those with the true power in sport and sports journalism has a hell of a long eway to go.

[Fromafar]

What are you observations?

 

You've mentioned someone called Tia, I know of no speedway riders by that name.. and mentioned an awards event with 500 people in attendance..

 

Neither of them are what is being discussed on this thread and seem to be figments of your imagination.

Nitpicking day I see.

[orion]

As a participation activity, that is somewhat different.

 

Totally irrelevant to sailing as a 'sport'.

Did the BBC and other press outlets with their non stop bombardment of Americas Cup coverage stop and say.. Hang on.. nobody bothered to watch this thing, perhaps they aren't interested?

 

No, they didn't. Its a posh sport that will get covered, its how the media work.

As spurious as your post.

Most people are clueless until they are informed about something.

 

Therein lies the issue, the selective nature. People know about some athletes because they have no choice not to know about it, Ainslie and the Americas Cup is the perfect example. Mass media coverage for something that the viewing figures showed, very very few people actually gave a stuff about. However that coverage further keeps the name Ben Ainslie on peoples brains. Its the same principle as in advertising and product recognition.

 

 

People know Athletes because it's important sport people know about Ainslie because the Americas cup and the story of the comeback was a massive worldwide event ,,People don't know about Tai because Speedway is view upon as load of rubbish so him winning it means nothing . Sure people knowing you before with help you out but yet again that is where Tai and speedway fall down

[BWitcher]

Nitpicking day I see.

Nitpicking?

 

You posted something that was a load of cobblers. This was pointed out and of course you are unable to substantiate the rubbish you posted and now resort to further childish statements.

 

Let us know about this event that's attended by 500 people, of which 499 people don't what to be here.. What is it? Where is it? As it simply isn't the event we are discussing on this thread.

People know Athletes because it's important sport people know about Ainslie because the Americas cup and the story of the comeback was a massive worldwide event ,,People don't know about Tai because Speedway is view upon as load of rubbish so him winning it means nothing . Sure people knowing you before with help you out but yet again that is where Tai and speedway fall down

No it wasn't a massive worldwide event.

 

Are you really that unable to use your own mind? It's staggering that someone on TV tells you something and you just accept it.

 

30,000 people could be bothered to watch this so called massive event. That's the facts. It was tiny, insignificant and the British sporting public weren't interested.

 

Given the publicity and hype given to the event, to only attract 30,000 viewers is shocking! Pool attracted more viewers.

 

Athletics, no argument there. World Champions in their disciplines deserve to be recognised. How did Ainslie get on in the World Championships in this year of 'sporting achievement'? Ah.. he didn't did he.

Edited November 28, 2013 by BWitcher

[Humphrey Appleby]

You see this in the disproportionate coverage given to sports like rugby and cricket.

Well I'd strongly disagree that cricket is an elitist sport, and never has been. Working men have always played with the local squires on the village green and at county level, even if they were classified as 'gentlemen' and 'players' with separate changing rooms in the past. Cricket is followed by all sorts, and frankly I don't think it actually gets enough coverage in relation to its popularity because the media can no longer afford to send journalists to cover matches for days at a time.

 

Rugby (Union) is also pretty widely played around the country by all sorts, and whilst the top-level was traditionally dominated by ex-public schoolboys because of its 'amateur' nature, I'm not sure it's so much the case these days. If it is, it's because most people get introduced to rugby at school (unlike football which kids seem to play naturally) and it still tends to be the former grammar schools where it's predominantly played.

 

I think the coverage of Rugby Union is about right on balance.

 

By contrast, Rugby League has most definitely never been a toffs' sport and that still got a lot of coverage on the BBC in the 1980s if I recall. It's not on there now because it sold itself to Murdoch for a vast largesse, and has been heavily marketed (still with limited success) ever since. Admittedly the BBC seemed intent on confirming every southerner's prejudices about flat caps and whippets through their employment of Eddie Waring and latterly Ray French, but the sport certainly got disproportionate coverage in relation to its popularity.

 

The fact that speedway only ever found itself in the company of joke sports like wrestling and canal vaulting on ITV probably says more about the efforts of the speedway authorities than anything else.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby